2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Cask N Flagon 76]

They Angels are going to regret this deal. Pujols is truly great now; he will also be 32 years old soon. How productive will he be when he is 35 or 36? Even if he is productive then that still leaves about six years of overpaying him. I am glad the Angels made that deal and not us.

 

 

Completely agree. Also do we truly know Pujols age?, I heard somwhere he might even

be upwards of 35-36.

[a700hitter]

They Angels are going to regret this deal. Pujols is truly great now; he will also be 32 years old soon. How productive will he be when he is 35 or 36? Even if he is productive then that still leaves about six years of overpaying him. I am glad the Angels made that deal and not us.

But for the next 3-5 years the Angel's fans will get to watch a very special player.

[jung]

How many assets with the Hornets have if CP3 gets to free agency and then books out of New Orleans? This is the last year of his contract. I suspect Stern will be rethinking his position but will demand something more from LA in order to save face. In the meantime if NY makes the deal they are trying to make CP3 may end up taking the pay cut and going to NY.

[jung]

I think the bigger issue for baseball outside of the Angels ending up paying huge money to a guy 40+ years old is that this is getting to be the norm. The last few years all of these big contracts spin out to a term lengths that are just to long and for which there is no way the player can produce at the same level or even close to it.

[example1]

They Angels are going to regret this deal. Pujols is truly great now; he will also be 32 years old soon. How productive will he be when he is 35 or 36? Even if he is productive then that still leaves about six years of overpaying him. I am glad the Angels made that deal and not us.

 

There is a lot that could go wrong for the angels. Very very risky. Will be good for a few years, beyond that it is anybody's guess.

[FredLynn]

How many assets with the Hornets have if CP3 gets to free agency and then books out of New Orleans? This is the last year of his contract. I suspect Stern will be rethinking his position but will demand something more from LA in order to save face. In the meantime if NY makes the deal they are trying to make CP3 may end up taking the pay cut and going to NY.

 

Its entirely possible that the franchise will be sold before he is traded, later this season. Then the new owners can negotiate a better deal or re-sign him.

[FredLynn]

There is a lot that could go wrong for the angels. Very very risky. Will be good for a few years' date=' beyond that it is anybody's guess.[/quote']

 

Great for three years; bad for seven. Where will he play at age 37? How many DHs are productive at that age?

[example1]

Well, if there is anyone you could imagine being a good DH for awhile it would be Pujols. He's the best hitter in baseball and has been since he entered the league.

[FredLynn]

Well' date=' if there is anyone you could imagine being a good DH for awhile it would be Pujols. He's the best hitter in baseball and has been since he entered the league.[/quote']

 

I cannot see even HIM being paid appropriately in five years, let alone beyond that. I agree: he is the best hitter I have ever seen in terms of both power and average.

Including Bellhorn.

[jung]

Well the DH is an entire other issue that might be due for a change at some point. The more inter-league play we have, the more the whole idea of one league using the DH and the other not becomes more and more unwieldy. Some have already suggested that baseball should finally decide and either get rid of it or use it for everybody.

[372]

I'd rather Cherington take his time and get the right pieces for the right price than rush into things and overpay for players or sign players that are less than ideal because they're willing to sign early. It seems like most of the complaints about the new GM are about things fans know nothing about. They're upset that he supposedly did not know Ortiz would accept arbitration, but who's to say that he did not know that he would accept. Perhaps he wanted him to accept so he wouldn't have to commit to Ortiz for two years. There are complaints that Ortiz accepting arbitration will leave us with no money to sign other players, but none of us know what the front office is willing to pay for salary next year. There are complaints that he supposedly did not know that Santos was available, but who's to say that he did know that he was available but that he thought Toronto was asking for too much?

 

Just be patient, when he makes a bad move it will be fair to criticize him. But criticizing him because he's not making headline grabbing moves is silly. Epstein grabbed all the headlines last year and fans loved him for it and how'd that work out?

[372]

I meant White Sox were asking for too much.

[MNSoxChief102]

I'd rather Cherington take his time and get the right pieces for the right price than rush into things and overpay for players or sign players that are less than ideal because they're willing to sign early. It seems like most of the complaints about the new GM are about things fans know nothing about. They're upset that he supposedly did not know Ortiz would accept arbitration, but who's to say that he did not know that he would accept. Perhaps he wanted him to accept so he wouldn't have to commit to Ortiz for two years. There are complaints that Ortiz accepting arbitration will leave us with no money to sign other players, but none of us know what the front office is willing to pay for salary next year. There are complaints that he supposedly did not know that Santos was available, but who's to say that he did know that he was available but that he thought Toronto was asking for too much?

 

Just be patient, when he makes a bad move it will be fair to criticize him. But criticizing him because he's not making headline grabbing moves is silly. Epstein grabbed all the headlines last year and fans loved him for it and how'd that work out?

 

+1

 

The LAST thing I want Benny doing is making headlines with crazy moves just for the sake of making headlines. If it makes sense long term for the franchise, let's do it. Otherwise, keep plugging along under the radar and find players that can help us win when it matters. We may not win it all THIS YEAR, but we'll be in a better position going forward to make the moves needed to win the WS sooner rather than later.

 

That was the one thing I hated most about Theo... he would overreact and go overboard on free agent splurges when he felt we failed the year before, even though it carried the possibility of setting us back financially if it didn't work out. The Crawford deal is a prime example. I like Carl as much as the next guy, but that deal is keeping us from being active this year. And by not signing him last year, the Angels had the money to dump into Pujols lap to convince him to sign with them. That wouldn't be the case most likely if they had spent crazy money on CC last year.

[Elktonnick]

+1

 

The LAST thing I want Benny doing is making headlines with crazy moves just for the sake of making headlines. If it makes sense long term for the franchise, let's do it. Otherwise, keep plugging along under the radar and find players that can help us win when it matters. We may not win it all THIS YEAR, but we'll be in a better position going forward to make the moves needed to win the WS sooner rather than later.

 

That was the one thing I hated most about Theo... he would overreact and go overboard on free agent splurges when he felt we failed the year before, even though it carried the possibility of setting us back financially if it didn't work out. The Crawford deal is a prime example. I like Carl as much as the next guy, but that deal is keeping us from being active this year. And by not signing him last year, the Angels had the money to dump into Pujols lap to convince him to sign with them. That wouldn't be the case most likely if they had spent crazy money on CC last year.

 

One thing we all can be sure of, Cherries will take his time.

[a700hitter]

Marlins Designate Clay Hensley For Assignment

By Mark Polishuk [December 9, 2011 at 2:42pm CST]

 

The Marlins have designated right-hander Clay Hensley for assignment, reports Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com (via Twitter). Hensley was considered to be a non-tender candidate by MLBTR's Tim Dierkes, given how the righty was going through arbitration for a second time and looked to earn a raise from his $1.4MM salary.

 

Hensley posted a 5.19 ERA in 37 games (nine of them starts) for Miami last year and also had two stints on the disabled list. As a full-time reliever in 2010, Hensley enjoyed a brilliant season with the Marlins and even got some work closing games. If healthy, Hensley could be a valuable right-handed asset to a team's bullpen, so it's possible another club might put in a claim.

A possible under the radar acquisition for Ben & Cherries?

[seabeachfred]

Another team's reject. Epstink made a cottage industry of taking those types and festooning them on us. Snyder, Burns, Seanez, McDonald, Patterson, to name a few. Don't be shocked to see this reject Hensley signed up by us. You know, there seems to be a mindset among Red Sox brass that these types of failures can redeem themselve by donning a Red Sox uniform. Sorry but there is no magic to wearing such a uni. You need chicken to make chicken salad. You cannot make it with chicken turd.

[SoxSport]

The league OWNS the Hornets. Up until now they have allowed the Hornets' management to do what they like. However' date=' if Paul is traded the value of the team decreases. The league is trying to protect its assets.[/quote']

 

At the risk of being off-topic (sorry), this point has been overlooked at ESPN and other TV outlets committed to the big markets. The League owns the Hornets, and has to sign off on deals. Apparently, the Hornet GM was unaware of that. It took a lot of balls for Stern to kill that deal, though they may yet weasel it through. TV wants Paul in NY or LA. Howard, too.

 

TV is major player these days in sports. The Angels got their Pujols money from the $3billion/20 year Fox deal. Otherwise, no Pujols.

[Laser Show]

Another thing being overlooked from the fans perspective is that doing that trade would cause the Hornets' payroll to rise, costing each owner an additional $550k. It's possible they just didn't want to pay more.

 

Another trade idea..

 

Lakers get Chris Paul

 

Houston gets Pau Gasol

 

New Orleans gets Martin, Scola, Dragic, and 3 draft picks (the first round picks of the Lakers, Houston, and New York for the 2012 draft). With their own pick, that will give them 4 picks in what's supposed to be a deep draft.

 

Lakers keep Odom, which makes a deal for Dwight a little more realistic.

[mvp 78]

Another team's reject. Epstink made a cottage industry of taking those types and festooning them on us. Snyder' date=' Burns, Seanez, McDonald, Patterson, to name a few. Don't be shocked to see this reject Hensley signed up by us. You know, there seems to be a mindset among Red Sox brass that these types of failures can redeem themselve by donning a Red Sox uniform. Sorry but there is no magic to wearing such a uni. You need chicken to make chicken salad. You cannot make it with chicken turd.[/quote']

 

Ortiz, Millar, Muellar, Beltre, etc...

[win red sox]

With the red sox current salary constraints and lack of pitching depth, the most logical move would be to trade Beckett, Since the Marlins missed out on Wilson and the whole Hanley situation developed they make good trade partners. Beckett for Ramirez, and then spin Ramirez off to Atlanta or Seattle. I imagine you could get Jurrjens and Minor for Ramirez and possible Kalish. That frees up around 15 million which get you a closer and more bullpen depth. Why do the Marlins do this? The Marlins now get a number 2 pitcher and puts fans in the seats and maybe sign Aramis Ramirez. Why do the Braves do this? Atlanta's collapse last year was mostly due to there offense and they have a hole at shortstop and a surplus of young pitching. The biggest hurdle to this scenario would be if Atlanta would be able to take on Hanley's salary 3/47 and there is history with Hanley and Atlanta's manager. What do you think?

[jung]

Well I am going to try not to make this sound like an overreaction but it appears that V and Beckett got off to a bad start. However I think I would lay the blame at Beckett's feet for that if I have the story straight.

 

Beckett called V out about the comments V made as an analyst regarding the time Beckett takes between pitches and then Beckett got mad when V made the conversation between the two of them public knowledge. Is that about right? If that is, I really don't have any problem with V commenting publicly unless he assured Beckett that their conversation would remain between the two of them. If not then it just appears to me that Beckett did not want to be exposed for being something of an overreacting cry baby. I surely think calling V out about something he said as a analyst is pretty ridiculous.

 

In addition I found Beckett's comments that he had asked his team mates if they found the length of time he was taking between pitches a distraction less than satisfying. His team mates are not the entire story and the fact the he felt justified in continuing to take so long between pitches simply because his team mates claimed not to be distracted does not make much sense to me.

 

All by way of saying that on top of everything that happened last year, Beckett appears to have already stuck his foot in his mouth and might actually want to get the hell out of here. We have many pitching holes to fill but if this is just the start of a very ugly Beckett season maybe it would be best to see him out the door.

[a700hitter]

Ortiz' date=' Millar, Muellar, Beltre, etc...[/quote']These guys were failures?

[jung]

I think some of the lower level signings have been some of the Sox greatest successes. In the first place you are not mortgaging the farm to bring guys like that in so if they don't work out you have not dug some giant financial hole. Then if a guy works out like Ortiz you have really done yourself proud.

[Meh]

I think the Sox should make just some minor adjestments.

 

Lowrie for Lowe swamp.

Sign Madson for 4/44

Beg Cashman for Cabrera to be returned, give him a $1 million reward.

Trade Bowden for Saunders in a salary dump

 

Lineup remains unchanged.

Rotation would be Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Saunders and Aceves

 

Bullpen would be Madson, Bard, Lowe, Jenks, Morales, Cabrera and Alberts.

 

Payroll would be 182 to 183 million but can't compete without bending a few budgets.

 

Midseason I'd go after any catcher who could be on the block. Kurt Suzuki would be my #1 target. By then some of the 2011 draftees might have gained a bit more trading value.

[FredLynn]

Ortiz' date=' Millar, Muellar, Beltre, etc...[/quote']

 

Smoltz, Penny, Gagne, Renteria, Lugo, Clement, Cameron.......etc

[mvp 78]

Smoltz' date=' Penny, Gagne, Renteria, Lugo, Clement, Cameron.......etc[/quote']

 

Epstink and FrancoMa were here for 2 WS titles. Some people need to get over the sour grapes.

[Spitball]

The Sox are apparently in on Joe Saunders from Arizona. Geeze, I am not interested in guys with less than 5.0 Ks per nine in the NL.

[a700hitter]

The Sox are apparently in on Joe Saunders from Arizona. Geeze' date=' I am not interested in guys with [i']less than[/i] 5.0 Ks per nine in the NL.

He could be useful as a swingman, spot starter depth guy.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather Saunders than Andrew Miller.

[Elktonnick]

I'd rather Saunders than Andrew Miller.

 

Hanley is truly unhappy over being moved to third (which I doubt BTW) then there could be an opporetunity for a three way trade.