2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[SoxSport]

If I am not mistake the tax limit for 2011 was $172 expected to go to $186 for 2012 pending the new CBA. However your point about the tax is accurate, Soxsport. The Red Sox have no interest in crossing the 2012 tax threshold limit.

 

I do expect the Phils to get over the threshold for 2012 and the Yanks have been stuck there for several years. The earliest they might have a shot at coming in under the threshold might be 2013.

 

If you estimate the Sox payroll for next year, it's hard for them to sign any new players and keep Pap and Papi without increasing their payroll beyond $160 mil. Plus they've got Ellsbury to deal with next year.

 

That might explain why they let Pap go, and also Papi--who is rumored to be signing with the Blue Jays. You figure they want to spend their money on Beltran rather than Papi.

 

The Phillies are making tons of money in their new park, and have to keep their fan base happy after flunking out of the playoffs.

[iortiz]

I'm hearing Papi is signing with the Blue Jays. That means Beltran to Boston.

 

Really?, How much? wow!... That was quick. Didn't see that coming that quick.

 

Don worry guys, still November.

 

Bautista and Papi?... Sounds explosive.

[jung]

Did the Biue Jays/Ortiz rumor come out later today? The last thing I heard today was Ortiz agents talking to Baltimore. Did the Blue Jay rumor sound closer to being some sort of deal or was it more like the Oriole rumor?

[jung]

Using the calculation for the Luxury tax cap provided that the Sox did not resign Paps or Ortiz, the Sox had a whopping $24M or so to play with outside of current commitments.

[iortiz]

Using the calculation for the Luxury tax cap provided that the Sox did not resign Paps or Ortiz' date=' the Sox had a whopping $24M or so to play with outside of current commitments.[/quote']

 

Time to play moneyball, Ben.

[SoxSport]

Did the Biue Jays/Ortiz rumor come out later today? The last thing I heard today was Ortiz agents talking to Baltimore. Did the Blue Jay rumor sound closer to being some sort of deal or was it more like the Oriole rumor?

 

Tonite--on Ortiz' facebook. But confirmation is needed.

MLB rumors says he is talking to the Jays.

[jung]

Interesting how all of the "rumors" so far are restricted to the AL East. Clearly if the Sox had a preference it would be for Ortiz to land in the AL West if they were not going to sign him. Wondering how much rumor there is in these rumors.

[a700hitter]

Interesting how all of the "rumors" so far are restricted to the AL East. Clearly if the Sox had a preference it would be for Ortiz to land in the AL West if they were not going to sign him. Wondering how much rumor there is in these rumors.

The jays have Adam Lind who plays 1B and LF poorly. He's a DH candidate. Edwin Encarnacion is a horror show with the glove. If they keep him, he'll see a lot of time at DH. I can't see the jays as a fit for Ortiz.

[wyo-sox]

Career 2.62 to 4.18 reliever/starter.

 

Wow! Yeah- let's keep him on the pen

[SoxSport]

Forget that Papi rumor to the Jays. The facebook post turned out to be fake.

[mvp 78]

Forget that Papi rumor to the Jays. The facebook post turned out to be fake.

 

Your "source" is FB? You aren't serious...

[SoxFanForsyth]

Couple things after reading through these posts.

 

1. The biggest connection between Ortiz and the Jays is that the Jays are interested in him.

 

2. I don't understand the huge fuss about 30 more IL games and the impact on Ortiz. Half would be at home, half would be away. That gives Ortiz 147 games to play in each year. In 2011, he played in 146, and in 9 of those games he was a PH. So the only difference between the new IL schedule and the 2011 schedule is that his days off will be scheduled around IL games in NL parks. Not sure what the big fuss is about.

[commenter]

Couple things after reading through these posts.

 

1. The biggest connection between Ortiz and the Jays is that the Jays are interested in him.

 

2. I don't understand the huge fuss about 30 more IL games and the impact on Ortiz. Half would be at home, half would be away. That gives Ortiz 147 games to play in each year. In 2011, he played in 146, and in 9 of those games he was a PH. So the only difference between the new IL schedule and the 2011 schedule is that his days off will be scheduled around IL games in NL parks. Not sure what the big fuss is about.

 

For one, in 2011 he took games off because he had bursitis in his foot, otherwise he probably would have played more games.

 

For two, it's how you build your team. The Red Sox are so dependent on Ortiz for their offense, which is bad. Teams like the Yankees & Rangers aren't at all dependent on the DH. Young can just play first (or 3rd or shortstop if need be) & the Yankees just use the DH spot as a way to rest their players. In 2011, the Red Sox struggled to score runs in inter league games.

 

Three, what happens if the team made into the world series? What would they do with Ortiz when they play at the NL team? He can't play 1st they used to do because Gonzalez. How much will that effect the offense since they are so dependent on Ortiz?

 

Lastly, I'd rather just give the DH spot to Youkilis, who has out-hit & out-produced Ortiz the last several years and is younger plus can play multiple positions. I highly doubt Ortiz will produce the same season he did last year. I'd rather use the DH position to rest players & for Youkilis/Lavarnway.

[jung]

One thing that will likely be a source of frustration for Ortiz and fans alike is that I do not sense any urgency from teams to leap to close a deal with Ortiz at this time. He will more likely end up being a fill in at the end of the FA season more than a guy that gets a deal done early.....probably a consequence of being a dedicated DH.

 

He may sign with the Sox earlier if they actually do have a real offer out there to him and he decides to take it.

[example1]

If this Cespedes guy from Cuba only wants 30m for 5 years (similar to the Chapman deal) then it could be a pretty good offensive combination to sign him for RF and Ortiz for DH again.

[Meh]

If this Cespedes guy from Cuba only wants 30m for 5 years (similar to the Chapman deal) then it could be a pretty good offensive combination to sign him for RF and Ortiz for DH again.

 

Rumors came out today he wants $60 million.

 

Also Sizemore is close to re-signing with the Tribe. http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/137688625600139264

[example1]

Rumors came out today he wants $60 million.

 

Also Sizemore is close to re-signing with the Tribe. http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/137688625600139264

 

Meh...

 

Less interested at that price.

[Palodios]

Rumors came out today he wants $60 million.

 

Also Sizemore is close to re-signing with the Tribe. http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/status/137688625600139264

 

And I want a pony.

[iortiz]

And I want a pony.

[seabeachfred]

One thing that will likely be a source of frustration for Ortiz and fans alike is that I do not sense any urgency from teams to leap to close a deal with Ortiz at this time. He will more likely end up being a fill in at the end of the FA season more than a guy that gets a deal done early.....probably a consequence of being a dedicated DH.

 

He may sign with the Sox earlier if they actually do have a real offer out there to him and he decides to take it.

 

The Red Sox should not jump into any quick deal with Ortiz. This is one time they need to move slowly. I just don't think there is that big a market for him since most teams are using regulars who are being rested as their DH's as the Rangers for example. The money we save with Ortiz coming off the books could be used for pitching, a RH hitting outfielder and some relievers. My fear is that since Cherington has been exposed as nothing more than a chump and flunky besides he might be inclined to try and make a splash and sign Ortiz to a new contract. We can replace his bat with improved years from Youk and a new RH hitter in Lavarnway. As much as I appreciate what Papi did for us over the years, it is time to understand that we have to move on. Sentiment does not win pennants, and we've seen with our nurturing of Wakefield and Varitek doing so only weakens the team.

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox should not jump into any quick deal with Ortiz. This is one time they need to move slowly. I just don't think there is that big a market for him since most teams are using regulars who are being rested as their DH's as the Rangers for example. The money we save with Ortiz coming off the books could be used for pitching' date=' a RH hitting outfielder and some relievers. My fear is that since Cherington has been exposed as nothing more than a chump and flunky besides he might be inclined to try and make a splash and sign Ortiz to a new contract. We can replace his bat with improved years from Youk and a new RH hitter in Lavarnway. As much as I appreciate what Papi did for us over the years, it is time to understand that we have to move on. Sentiment does not win pennants, and we've seen with our nurturing of Wakefield and Varitek doing so only weakens the team.[/quote']

 

Aren't you the same guy who was worried that the Sox were being left behind because they hadn't made any moves?

[User Name]

Cherington hasn't been on the job for two months, he inherited a fractured organization, and people are already s***ing on the guy. Unbelievable.

[FredLynn]

Cherington hasn't been on the job for two months' date=' he inherited a fractured organization, and people are already s***ing on the guy. Unbelievable.[/quote']

 

Its not like he is brand new to the organization. He has been with the team since 1999 and has almost certainly been involved in most of the major decisions that have come down over the past several years. That said, I think it was a mistake for LL to hang him out to dry like this. I would be taking this as a personal insult if I were him.

[a700hitter]

Its not like he is brand new to the organization. He has been with the team since 1999 and has almost certainly been involved in most of the major decisions that have come down over the past several years. That said' date=' I think it was a mistake for LL to hang him out to dry like this. I would be taking this as a personal insult if I were him.[/quote']

You are right. This was supposed to be a seemless transition.

[SoxSport]

Pass on the Cuban kid. The 20 minute You-tube is the tipoff.

 

Pass on Papi? Tough call. He and Berkman had unreal years. Maybe losing weight did it.

You just don't know.

[iortiz]

You are right. This was supposed to be a seemless transition.

 

After reading all the stuff published on internet, I'm lost, seriously!; I have simply no a remote idea, what the hell are the duties of Ben Cherigton as GM...

[a700hitter]

After reading all the stuff published on internet' date=' I'm lost, seriously!; I have simply no a remote idea, what the hell are the duties of Ben Cherigton as GM... [/quote']Glorified assistant to LL. He is essentially LL's Chief of Staff, but every team has to have someone hold the GM title.

[jung]

So far Cherington's duties appear to have been restricted to functioning as the team pinata, hung up at home plate in Fenway Park so that the Boston Media and fan base can swat away at him hoping to crack him open knocking a few gifts to the ground in the process.

 

While I am indulging in a bit of overstatement to make a point, I don't think the way they are using Cherington is particularly bright nor will it be productive in the long run.

[SoxSport]

Glorified assistant to LL. He is essentially LL's Chief of Staff' date=' but every team has to have someone hold the GM title.[/quote']

 

I think the problem is the Red Sox are under a microscope with the Boston media.

And the magnification level is getting much too high lately. Especially at the Globe.

 

The Red Sox chain of command is probably no different from most other teams in baseball.

Is anybody questioning who hired the Cubs manager? Or who hired the Cardinals manager?

[iortiz]

Glorified assistant to LL. He is essentially LL's Chief of Staff' date=' but every team has to have someone hold the GM title.[/quote']

 

I see... My guess then is that JH told LL that he'd be the next who walk if he shits the bed in a 4 year in a row. Reason why his nose will be in every move that this team make moving foreward...