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2. I'm not counting on Ranaudo for anything. But Trevor Cahill, a young starting pitcher with a pretty good contract cost a top pitching prospect, a relief pitcher and an outfielder. So you think a relief pitcher with an injury history is going to cost 2 top pitching prospects (in the Red Sox system at least) and Reddick. That just makes no sense. 4. I'd be fine if they got him. But he'd have to DH & Ortiz whines to much for him to do that. Plus I'm pretty sure he said last year he did not want to DH. 5. I'd be fine with Pudge, I mean anyone can be better than Varitek.
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1. Why would you trade the Red Sox #1 or #2 pitcher for mediocre relief pitchers & Julio Burbon? Even with his attitude, you could get a lot more for him than Koji Uehara (1 year left on his deal), Mark Lowe (not that great of a pitcher), Scott Feldman (really a reliever with a injury history) and Julio Burbon (not that great either). 2. Overpayment for Andrew Bailey. He's a relief pitcher, that's all. So you're trading away the 2 best pitching prospects in the Red Sox system for a relief pitcher? Hah, funny. That's the future of the rotation you're trading away. Lester and Buchholz's contracts are up in a few years and while they may re-sign them, they're going to need replacements in case. 3. Eh. He's too expensive. Most likely will make $9 million next year & that'd put the team over the luxury cap. 4. Beltran is old & the offense is fine anyway. He's also too expensive & would put the team over the luxury cap. 5. Rodriquez? Eh. You think Wandy Rodriquez could pitch in the AL East the same way Beckett did? You think the Red Sox are going to trade for half a year of Danks when they wouldn't get draft pick compensation if he left? You think they're going to extend him when they already have a ton of money tied up into Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Dice-K & Lackey to go over the luxury cap next year? And you think Ortiz is going to "share" the DH? He whined when he was sat in 2009. He's not going to be sharing it with Youkilis & Lavarnway. If they were going to do that, he wouldn't have been re-signed because what else is he doing for $14 million next year besides hitting?
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Billy Beane is not going to take on any salary. He'd want cheap, young, controllable players in return. Better yet, why don't the Red Sox just not re-sign Ortiz. What's the probability that he's going to hit left handed pitching the way he did last year after not being able to hit it in '08, '09 & '10? I don't know why they'd commit a ton of money to Ortiz when their complaining about not having payroll flexibility & this team needs pitching more than anything.
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For one, I highly doubt they will. I don't know why you'd guess that as it looks like their trying to do everything for the cheap right now. Even with the Kuroda rumors they said they'd need to make room on their payroll to fit him. For two, they don't need to go over the cap. If a team needed to do that to win, then every year it would be the Yankees winning, seeing as no other team goes over it. Other teams find ways without shelling out $14 million to an aging DH, spending money on aging outfielders (Cuddyer, Beltran, Willingham), spending money on foreign pitchers (Darvish), spending money on overrated pitchers (CJ Wilson), etc. It's called a farm system. It's call trades. It's called signings like Aceves. Spending money doesn't always fix the problems, in fact it often causes more problems. Everytime this team makes a free agent signing because they need said player despite the fact that said player doesn't actually fit their team. That's what everyone says when asked why they signed Lackey (he was the best option out there). Or when they signed Crawford, etc.
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I wouldn't give the A's what they want for Gio Gonzalez -- which is basically a similar trade from what they got for Dan Haren (especially since his numbers at Fenway & against the AL East are terrible). The same for Jair Jurrjens (who's often injured & would get crushed in the AL East). Honestly, I'd rather they stay away from trading away the rest of their farm system, as their farm system was a spot that hurt them last year. They needed someone to fill in for Buchholz & they didn't have a pitcher besides Kyle Weiland. They already depleted it for Adrian Gonzalez. Maybe if Gio Gonzalez was a better pitcher, but he's a #3 who has a high walk rate & his numbers are better than he actually is. I wouldn't want them trade Lavarnway or Middlebrooks, who should both be untouchable, and one of them would probably have to be traded to get one of those pitchers back.
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For one, in 2011 he took games off because he had bursitis in his foot, otherwise he probably would have played more games. For two, it's how you build your team. The Red Sox are so dependent on Ortiz for their offense, which is bad. Teams like the Yankees & Rangers aren't at all dependent on the DH. Young can just play first (or 3rd or shortstop if need be) & the Yankees just use the DH spot as a way to rest their players. In 2011, the Red Sox struggled to score runs in inter league games. Three, what happens if the team made into the world series? What would they do with Ortiz when they play at the NL team? He can't play 1st they used to do because Gonzalez. How much will that effect the offense since they are so dependent on Ortiz? Lastly, I'd rather just give the DH spot to Youkilis, who has out-hit & out-produced Ortiz the last several years and is younger plus can play multiple positions. I highly doubt Ortiz will produce the same season he did last year. I'd rather use the DH position to rest players & for Youkilis/Lavarnway.
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I don't think Beltran wants to be a DH & I doubt he'd sign with out making sure he wouldn't be. And Youkilis will never survive at 3rd all season. He'd probably have to DH a lot & platoon there with Aviles & Lowrie. And Jackson is Boras client who's WHIP is terrible annually and has a 7.36 ERA at Fenway. And while I want Papelbon resigned (Texas can tell you the importance of a good closer), I think it'll take more than 3/39 to sign him. He wants to set the bar for closers, so it's more like 3/45.
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I'd rather trade with the Braves for one of their young starters that's ready for next year. They have a lot of pitchers that can be starting pitchers next year -- Hudson/Beachy/Hanson/Jurrjens who already have spots (unless Jurrjens is traded -- but I wouldn't want him. Too injury prone & a fly ball pitcher) but then they have Minor, Vizcaino, Teheran & Delgado who can fill the last spot. Plus they have Medlen, who could start as well. Their farm system is stacked with pitchers at every level. I would take any of Minor/Vizcaino/Teheran/Delgado/Medlen. The thing with Vogelsong is, I think that his numbers were better than he actually is. I mean he's a good pitcher, but before this year, the best his ERA has ever been 4.43 and usually it was a lot higher than that.
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Would you do an Ellsbury for Lincecum trade?
commenter replied to Spitball's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
It'd take more than Ellsbury for Lincecum. It'd take Ellsbury & a few prospects. Lincecum is a real ace. Even in his "bad" years, he's still an amazing pitcher. He constantly gives 200+ innings every year. Ellsbury's had one year. I still think they should trade Ellsbury. But for major league ready prospects (pitchers/outfielders/shortstop). I think they could get a lot for him, especially since he has 2 years left on his contract. -
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Well for one, I do think they could get a lot for Beckett - not a ton, but good players back for him -- for the mere fact that he has 3 years left on his contract & the starting pitching Free agent pool is so bad. But I do not think they'll trade him from everything Lucchino & co. have said. Trading Ellsbury? I'm not entirely against it but it rests on the fact that Crawford will turn it around. If Crawford doesn't (which there is a chance, despite everyone playing this off as a "bad" year), then they're screwed in the outfield. On top of that, they'd have to have someone they could replace him with and I have no idea who that'd be. Of course, I'd want the maximum value for Ellsbury & they could get a lot. He has 2 more years on his contract, he's a good hitter, he can steal bases & hey, they gave him a Gold Glove (not that I believe he's the best defensive center fielder whatsoever). I'm just not sure about trading their best hitter (better than Pedroia, Gonzalez, Ortiz) when they have so many question marks -- 3rd base (how's Youkilis?), right field, catcher (what are they going to get from whatever tandem actually works behind there?), left field (What's Crawford going to be like), DH (is Ortiz coming back? Is it going to be Lavarnway? All those questions) -- that adding center field to that may be too much. But If I could get the right deal for Ellsbury, I'd do it. Build up the farm system & not have to spend of bad starting pitchers like John Lackey or John Smoltz or Brad Penny.
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Bard breaks down about 70 innings every year. What makes you think he'll be able to hand 150 innings? This team has ONE pitcher who can give them 200 innings, which is why their barren farm system was so noticeable. The Yankees had injuries so they called up Nova. For next year, they have Banuelos & Betances if need be. The Rays have Moore for next year & they already brought up Hellickson. Plus they have Cobb down in the minors as well. The Braves had injuries to their rotation & they had an overworked bullpen so they called up Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Vizcaino, & a bunch more for help. The only major league ready pitchers in the Red Sox farm system are relievers. Bowden, Doubront, Wilson, Tazawa, Weiland etc. -- all relievers. Their starting pitchers are years away. They showed this year that their pitching depth is terrible. Weiland (who's clearly a reliever), Wakefield (retire already -- you throw BP to the other team), & Andrew Miller (why do people expect anything out of this guy? This is what he's always been -- he was over-hyped & he failed as a major league pitchers. I'm sure the Tigers & Marlins thought that was going to change, but I think he's proven that it's not.). If next year -- or most likely WHEN next year -- Beckett & Buchholz go on the DL, like they always do, who's replacing them while they are recovering?
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The free agent pool for good pitchers is limited. Beckett's basically better than every single one of them, maybe sans one or 2 of them. Teams that really need pitching, especially good pitchers (i.e., teams with a lot of #3's & no ace or someone not even close to being an ace), will give up a lot for them most of the time. Especially since he has 3 years left on his contract. I'm not saying he's going to get the top prospect in someone's farm system, but teams like the Rangers (with CJ Wilson going), who really have a bunch of #2s or #3, might want to give up a few of their prospects to get one, especially if the Red Sox are willing to pay for a portion of his contract, which they'd have to do. The team with the most pitching depth actually is the Braves. They have 4 prospects that could really come up & be an every day starter (Delgado, Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor) along with Hudson, Beachy, Jurjjens, & Hanson. I would kill for that kind of pitching depth.
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I don't know about trading Ellsbury, when you have no idea what you're getting out of Crawford. If Crawford returns to form, then maybe. But if he doesn't, then the team is screwed. I wouldn't trade Youkilis either because he's the exact type of player that needs to stay -- one who takes accountability & puts everything into the game when he's healthy. And, they aren't going to get much for him. But I full heartily agree with trading Beckett. Trade Beckett to a team who desperately needs pitching. The free agent pool for pitchers is limited. If they paid part of his salary (which they'd obviously have to do), they could get some good young major league ready talent for him, which is what they need. They to start putting more into their farm system, because it's been completely overrated. They have no pitcher in their farm system who can come up & contribute. With the bad seasons that some of them had & their lack of progress, who knows when they'll be ready -- but it won't be any time soon. That means that they're going to have to continue signing free agents & that's not a way to build a team. Seriously, the management has to stop relying on free agents to build this team. They should build from within & stop trading away all their talent.
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The Fielding Bible Awards were already announced. First Base - Albert Pujols Second Base - Dustin Pedroia Short Stop - Troy Tulowitzki Third Base - Adrian Beltre Left Field - Brett Gardner Center Field - Austin Jackson Right Field - Justin Upton Catcher - Matt Wieters Pitcher - Mark Buehrle
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I pretty much agree with everything you said. Except for maybe the Ortiz part. I want them to let him walk. They need to move on from their over reliance on the DH. I think they need to stop relying so much on outside help and stop signing so many free agents. They are overly relying on them & that's not how you win. You need to build from within. If they can get some good prospects that are close to being major league ready, especially pitching prospects, then they should do it. I think their minor league system is overrated and while they have a few good prospects (Lavarnway, Middlebrooks) they have a lot of question marks -- especially with some of their pitching prospects bad seasons last year where they regressed. Plus they are no where near ready for the next couple years. If they trade Beckett (which it sounds like from all their comments, they aren't going to do, but that's just speculation on my part) & pay some of his salary, or a good part of it, then they could get a few good major league prospects. I mean he has 3 more years on his contract and he's still a top of the rotation pitcher (even I think he's overrated). If Adrian Gonzalez nets 3 top prospects & he only had 1 year left, Beckett should be able to get some good prospects, especially with lack of good starting pitchers in free agency this year. Right now, they need a right handed bat but don't have one ready. They need a right fielder, but Kalish was injured all last year & Reddick is more of a 4th outfielder (in my opinion). Plus they are both left handed in an already left handed heavy line up. They need to look at 3rd base but Middlebrooks isn't ready. They have 2 pitching spots & no one to fill them unless they hurt their bullpen. Their bullpen also needs a lot of help. So what are they going to do? Spend more money & give another 3 year or more deal to a right handed bat who winds up breaking down? Get even older then they already are? Trade away the rest of their minor league system for some sub-par pitcher that can't pitch in the AL East? No thank you.
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Ahaha, they are not going to stay in house with Bard. He lost 9 games setting up & doesn't have the balls or mental make up to close right now. Maybe he will in a few years, but right now? Nope. Not even close. If you want to win right now, you can't have a closer like that especially for the post season. And Papelbon is the best option out there. Madson's been closing for one year. In the NL East where he gets to pitch against the Braves, who's offense sucks. Bell is 3 years older than Papelbon, he doesn't strike out people a lot & he walks a ton of people. That & his home & away splits show that he needs Petco to pitch well. Plus he's out of shape. He pitched badly against the Yankees, Jays & Orioles. K-Rod has attitude issues & this team doesn't need anymore players like that. With Papelbon, you know what you're getting. You know he can handle the AL East. You know he can handle pitching in Fenway. You know he can handle the Yankees. You know he can pitch in the post season. You know he can handle the media & Boston. Oh yeah, he was apparently one of the 3 guys who worked hard all year. No need for another Bobby Jenks or Eric Gagne. They know what they have with Papelbon.

