Is Francona done managing the Sox?

[Reck]

I think he overstayed his welcome in Boston.

 

They had a good run but he has no managerial skills and now he's cornered (by the Rays) and he's frozen stiff not knowing what to do next.

 

Discuss.

[CanadianSox]

You lose starting pitchers and you're bound to stumble.

[lesterkett]

yeah time for a change ... we need a manager that can bring some life to this club

[Cocos Disciples]

No, he's not.

[VA Sox Fan]

I think he overstayed his welcome in Boston.

 

They had a good run but he has no managerial skills and now he's cornered (by the Rays) and he's frozen stiff not knowing what to do next.

 

Discuss.

 

[iortiz]

I'd say yes, but I'm not sure what weight he has. He puts on the field what he has; nevertheless, IMO he has made a loooot bad decisions. On the other hand, and looking at our pitching depth which has has been the main cause of our collapsing should be charged to our FO.

[soxfan74]

I hope yes. My gut feeling says no. He lets alott of close games get away. I really hope he resigns due to health issues rather than get the ax. He has done alott for the Sox

[Reck]

 

Real informative post. Thanks for the input.

[mvp 78]

Not a chance.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

If he isn't gone after this season then the front office is screwing up. I don't care about the 2 world series titles, that is just sentimental s***. It doesn't get him a free pass. Any other team and this guy would of been gone awhile ago.

[VA Sox Fan]

Real informative post. Thanks for the input.

 

Here is some input for you. Francona isn't going anywhere and you are an idiot.

 

I thought the ":rolleyes:" was nicer.

[Reck]

Here is some input for you. Francona isn't going anywhere and you are an idiot.

 

I thought the ":rolleyes:" was nicer.

 

Informative post.

[Boggs Chicken Dinner]

I'm not sure if Francona is done, but all I know is if Boston does not make the playoffs, something big is probably going to go down. You don't go on a free agent spree with 100 win and World Series expectations only to blow a 10 game playoff lead in the last five or six weeks of the season without some changes. This would also be the second year in a row without a playoff spot.

 

We can blame Tito, we can blame Theo, but ultimately, Henry, Werner and Luchino own this team and it's up to THEM to make the most important decisions. Whether it's Tito, Theo, the head janitor, I don't know, but I'd sure as hell hope they'd figure that out.

[SoxSport]

Think with your head, not with your heart. Nice guys finish last.

[VA Sox Fan]

Informative post.

 

It's not our decision to make.

 

The season isn't over....by far.

[iortiz]

I'm not sure if Francona is done, but all I know is if Boston does not make the playoffs, something big is probably going to go down. You don't go on a free agent spree with 100 win and World Series expectations only to blow a 10 game playoff lead in the last five or six weeks of the season without some changes. This would also be the second year in a row without a playoff spot.

 

We can blame Tito, we can blame Theo, but ultimately, Henry, Werner and Luchino own this team and it's up to THEM to make the most important decisions. Whether it's Tito, Theo, the head janitor, I don't know, but I'd sure as hell hope they'd figure that out.

 

Wisdom here.

 

My points are resumed here. Nevertheless, sounds like Theo and Co. Will go if we don't make the POs again considering the tons of money deployed in the past 2 years.

[example1]

Wisdom here.

 

My points are resumed here. Nevertheless, sounds like Theo and Co. Will go if we don't make the POs again considering the tons of money deployed in the past 2 years.

 

Does it? Where is this coming from? I just don't see it.

 

 

It might be worth noting that inside the franchise they are aware of how many of Theo's "chosen" guys have left and how many new faces he is working with. Is there another franchise that has had as many departures from the FO over the past 4-5 years? It isn't an excuse, but it is a variable that very few people make note of.

 

I expect ownership to be less reactionary than the fanbase on this website, particularly because injuries can be blamed and next year will likely bring ticket sales and general interest regardless of how they finish. They still have a beast of a team.

 

Also, I'm still waiting for people to produce a list of players who could have/should have been acquired at the deadline to mitigate the pitching woes this club has right now.

[iortiz]

Does it? Where is this coming from? I just don't see it.

 

 

It might be worth noting that inside the franchise they are aware of how many of Theo's "chosen" guys have left and how many new faces he is working with. Is there another franchise that has had as many departures from the FO over the past 4-5 years? It isn't an excuse, but it is a variable that very few people make note of.

 

I expect ownership to be less reactionary than the fanbase on this website, particularly because injuries can be blamed and next year will likely bring ticket sales and general interest regardless of how they finish. They still have a beast of a team.

 

Also, I'm still waiting for people to produce a list of players who could have/should have been acquired at the deadline to mitigate the pitching woes this club has right now.

 

Well, nobody is indispensable in an organization, nobody. The signs and the symptoms are there and IMO a cycle would've ended if they do not make POs. But again, it is just me. The season ain't over but the panorama isn't encouraging at all.

 

In the end, the main stakeholders will run the numbers and will seek for their own interests, you bet.

[example1]

Well, nobody is indispensable in an organization, nobody. The signs and the symptoms are there and IMO a cycle would've ended if they do not make POs. But again, it is just me. The season ain't over but the panorama isn't encouraging at all.

 

In the end, the main stakeholders will run the numbers and will seek for their own interests, you bet.

 

Who would they replace Theo with?

 

I was actually thinking about it today, wondering if you (and your agreers) are right who would they want instead? I suppose they would want someone who could really spend a shitload of money on established players because I don't think they will find someone who runs a much better minor league development shop. They aren't going to steal TB's FO (or draft picks) away from them...

 

Just like I didn't see better trade deadline options on 7/31, I don't see better FO options either.

 

Yes, there will be some retooling, but my hope is that they aggressively pursue a 5th starter. Spend a shitload of talent for another legitimate arm, starting at the top with Felix and going right down the list until they land someone. Treat Lackey like a #5 and just eat his cost.

 

I'm also pretty okay with them letting Ortiz walk. He's inexplicably had a great season and it worries me.

[Emmz]

I think he overstayed his welcome in Boston.

 

They had a good run but he has no managerial skills and now he's cornered (by the Rays) and he's frozen stiff not knowing what to do next.

 

Discuss.

 

*Facepalm*

[iortiz]

Who would they replace Theo with?

 

I was actually thinking about it today, wondering if you (and your agreers) are right who would they want instead? I suppose they would want someone who could really spend a shitload of money on established players because I don't think they will find someone who runs a much better minor league development shop. They aren't going to steal TB's FO (or draft picks) away from them...

 

Just like I didn't see better trade deadline options on 7/31, I don't see better FO options either.

 

Yes, there will be some retooling, but my hope is that they aggressively pursue a 5th starter. Spend a shitload of talent for another legitimate arm, starting at the top with Felix and going right down the list until they land someone. Treat Lackey like a #5 and just eat his cost.

 

I'm also pretty okay with them letting Ortiz walk. He's inexplicably had a great season and it worries me.

 

When you want a GM/CEO/Head/Main Director, etc. You look at high management profiles; the names come later.

 

I mean, I've seen GMs go from one industry to another completely different over and over and over again just like that due their SOLID MANAGEMENT SKILLS. I believe that a baseball organization or any other company beyond the industry it belongs, looks for a GM who can deploy with success those skills; it is not necessary the knowledge of the core business, it comes later. Sure, If this candidate has experience in that industry (ex. Baseball), even better, but it is not a most, you want the profile.

[Dirt Schilling]

I like Francona as a manager. The only thing that I would like to see some more is him showing more emotion during games. You can't blame him for the recent downswing. It's all down to the injuries in the pitching lineup if you ask me.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you lose Theo, expect a significant dropoff in production. The sox havent had a better 9 year run since the early days of baseball. He's revolutionized how a large market club should run in terms of farm system incorporation as well as big ticket signings. If you plan on ridding yourself of him, you need a better alternative first. And I dont think there is one. Theo went for broke this yr, gutting his upper farm system to get AdGon and then replenishing it with his recent drafts. The problem is that he went all talent and less proximity since 2009 and a lot of those kids are still a ways away. His hope was to bridge the gap with having all-star players at all positions. The problem wasnt in the planning of his lineups and rotations, it was in his contingencies. He may have gotten complacent or awestruck when looking at the team he was fielding. He may have even been cocky, but his plan was solid. Everyone picked the sox to go to the WS, including me. He didnt plan for injuries, a lot of key players went down, especially in the rotation. But do you take a second injury plagued season in a row and lay that at the feet of Theo, at least enough to cost him his job? I wouldn't. If Theo is let go, he'll have a job offer that night. Hell, he might leave anyway. Just remember where you were before him, remember that he has the balls to make the big move, and for the most part, he's been the best GM in Boston history. Letting him go now because the conditioning staff or the standard s*** luck quotient was high is a poor idea. I for one hope you rid yourselves of Theo. I'd hope he wants a yr or two off from being a GM and he'd join our upper levels as a special assistant. It would be awesome

[Palodios]

Also' date=' I'm still waiting for people to produce a list of players who could have/should have been acquired at the deadline to mitigate the pitching woes this club has right now.[/quote']

 

We've been asking for this list for quite some time, and the answer has simply been "Theo should know better than we do":lol:

 

Names that have come up have been Dempster, Jimeniz, and giving Millwood a shot. That's the best the pessimists can come up with.

[Palodios]

If you lose Theo' date=' expect a significant dropoff in production. The sox havent had a better 9 year run since the early days of baseball. He's revolutionized how a large market club should run in terms of farm system incorporation as well as big ticket signings. If you plan on ridding yourself of him, you need a better alternative first. And I dont think there is one. Theo went for broke this yr, gutting his upper farm system to get AdGon and then replenishing it with his recent drafts. The problem is that he went all talent and less proximity since 2009 and a lot of those kids are still a ways away. His hope was to bridge the gap with having all-star players at all positions. The problem wasnt in the planning of his lineups and rotations, it was in his contingencies. He may have gotten complacent or awestruck when looking at the team he was fielding. He may have even been cocky, but his plan was solid. Everyone picked the sox to go to the WS, including me. He didnt plan for injuries, a lot of key players went down, especially in the rotation. But do you take a second injury plagued season in a row and lay that at the feet of Theo, at least enough to cost him his job? I wouldn't. If Theo is let go, he'll have a job offer that night. Hell, he might leave anyway. Just remember where you were before him, remember that he has the balls to make the big move, and for the most part, he's been the best GM in Boston history. Letting him go now because the conditioning staff or the standard s*** luck quotient was high is a poor idea. I for one hope you rid yourselves of Theo. I'd hope he wants a yr or two off from being a GM and he'd join our upper levels as a special assistant. It would be awesome[/quote']

 

Excellent post.

[MNSoxChief102]

If you lose Theo' date=' expect a significant dropoff in production. The sox havent had a better 9 year run since the early days of baseball. He's revolutionized how a large market club should run in terms of farm system incorporation as well as big ticket signings. If you plan on ridding yourself of him, you need a better alternative first. And I dont think there is one. Theo went for broke this yr, gutting his upper farm system to get AdGon and then replenishing it with his recent drafts. The problem is that he went all talent and less proximity since 2009 and a lot of those kids are still a ways away. His hope was to bridge the gap with having all-star players at all positions. The problem wasnt in the planning of his lineups and rotations, it was in his contingencies. He may have gotten complacent or awestruck when looking at the team he was fielding. He may have even been cocky, but his plan was solid. Everyone picked the sox to go to the WS, including me. He didnt plan for injuries, a lot of key players went down, especially in the rotation. But do you take a second injury plagued season in a row and lay that at the feet of Theo, at least enough to cost him his job? I wouldn't. If Theo is let go, he'll have a job offer that night. Hell, he might leave anyway. Just remember where you were before him, remember that he has the balls to make the big move, and for the most part, he's been the best GM in Boston history. Letting him go now because the conditioning staff or the standard s*** luck quotient was high is a poor idea. I for one hope you rid yourselves of Theo. I'd hope he wants a yr or two off from being a GM and he'd join our upper levels as a special assistant. It would be awesome[/quote']

 

It's not often that I agree with Yanks fans on anything, but on this we see it exactly the same way. Solid post

[yeszir]

Clearly this team needs Dan Duquette and Grady Little back

[iortiz]

Wow, A lot have been said about this topic

 

Nobody is taking away his credit for what he accomplished in this organization but a cycle would be finished if we don't make the POs again IMO. The singns are there. Cycles go and cycles come, It happens all the time in large corporations, so... don't be afraid if somebody named Theo or whatever goes, nobody is indispensable, large corporations don't understand concepts of names or time, in the end they prevail through time with ups and downs. We will be fine, trust me.

 

It ain't over yet, we'll see how it ends.

[a700hitter]

We've been asking for this list for quite some time, and the answer has simply been "Theo should know better than we do":lol:

 

Names that have come up have been Dempster, Jimeniz, and giving Millwood a shot. That's the best the pessimists can come up with.

Plenty of names have come up. The Theo fanboys either tell us that they couldn't be acquired by the Red Sox because they were too costly or some other reason. Yet, these guys were acquired by other teams. Other names that have come up have been met with the argument that they couldn't perform in the AL East or some other argument why they would not perform. If we mention, Freddie Garcia or Colon, that is met with a response that the Yankees were just lucky.

 

It's my opinion that there is a lot to criticize. The Trading Deadline decisions are certainly up for debate. Additionally, the way this team was built from the beginning should be called into question. There was never sufficient depth for this roster, at the minor league level or in the bullpen. If we criticize them for resigning Wakefield who was embarrassingly and obviously over the hill in 2010, we are told that he was the best available player for that role. Going back to the offseason 2010, I still believe that the FO made a mistake by going after Lackey and Cameron instead of Matt Holliday. If the Sox had acquired Holliday in 2010, that would have allowed them to make a big push for Cliff Lee. I continue to think that Lackey, Cameron and Crawford was the wrong direction. I also think Theo's record of failure with regard to big ticket free agent acquisitions is fair game.

 

Some posters will defend the FO and Theo and make every excuse for them to explain the team's performance. I continue to believe that injuries are a big cop out excuse. Those of you want to give him that as an excuse, good for you. That's your opinion. I believe differently. In the end, the FO will take the credit if this team succeeds. They should also be accountable if it fails. Not to do so would just be homerism.

 

As for calling pessimists the people here who have criticized the FO, speaking for myself, I still think they will manage to hang on. In the poll, I voted that they would hang on and win the World Series. That's not pessimistic. Many of the other posters criticizing Theo and the FO still think we will make the post season. Those of us who are being critical of the construction of this team warned that the Sox were on the verge of a collapse before we played the first September series against Tampa. We were told that it was unfounded fear and that it couldn't happen and that the Sox would put the dagger in the Rays that weekend. As it is turning out, more than two weeks since some of us started sounding alarm bells, the Sox are precipitously close to collapsing and they are playing terrible ball. Our fears and concerns were and still are justified and warranted. We never said definitively at any point, including now, that they would completely collapse. We only said that there was danger of a collapse. What was not warranted was the mocking of those who have been critical by calling them pessimists. Apparently, what was not warranted was the confidence that some posters held after the first September weekend series.

[Wells]

Here is some input for you. Francona isn't going anywhere and you are an idiot.

 

I thought the ":rolleyes:" was nicer.

 

Whatever, VA... why dontcha put that brain to use and be a f***in' nerd like this Reck kid wants you to be.. to hell with having fun.. WE NEED STATS ALL THE TIME NOW FOR CHRIST SAKE ... DIDN'T ANYONE TELL YOU THAT BEFORE YOU LOGGED ON?!/

 

FIRE TITO AND OTHER NONSENSE THAT I NEED TO DRONE ON ABOUT..

 

WHY WEREN'T WE BETTER THAN THE 1927 YANKEES?! EVERYONE SAID SO BACK IN MARCH!

 

 

BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!1