Is Francona done managing the Sox?

[SoxSport]

Theo would have been better off he hadn't sign Crawford and Lackey, and instead signed Beltre, and kept Youks at 1B. And not trading for Gonzo (though it was a helluva good deal for Boston). He should have re-signed VMart and used him at 1b and DH--much like the Tigers are using him. He would have been better off signing Werth, who was bound to have a better year in Boston than he is in D.C. But then he didn't know that Ortiz would comeback to close to his hitting form of a few years ago--so he was looking for a left handed power bat in AdGon. He also didn't know Lackey would be a different pitcher from LA, but Lackey's poor record at Fenway against the Sox should have been a warning flag.

 

Signing Crawford didn't make much sense to most people at the outset. Though nobody knew Ellsbury would come back and break out, and basically marginalize Crawford's worth to the team.

 

Lots of things happened, and none of it good for Theo.

 

The bright spots were Salty and Buchholz. Plus comebacks by Papi and Ellsbury. You don't know if Ortiz will sustain it. I doubt it. Both these guys are playing for bigger contracts. Buchholz kills them by being out most of the season. Youks gets worn down with injuries trying to play 3B. Finally, Salty is given a catcher's nightmare--catching Wakefield--a pitcher who has harmed their catcher development in recent years--hardly worth the climb.

 

What will happen next year? Crawford and Lackey will be on the trading block. Papi probably won't be re-signed. Hopefully, Gonzo's should is OK. Other players gone will be Wake and Tek. Tek should be the bullpen coach--maybe the manager if they kick Francona upstairs. Pedroia will be the Captain, and will be given the authority to kick ass if anybody isn't in shape in spring training. The pitchers will now be told to hold runners, and team fundamentals will be stressed.

[a700hitter]

^This is getting obnoxious.

[jdlaughead]

We have a ship without a rudder. NICE GUYS FINISH LAST By Leo Durocher. Terry should read that book. Leo was one of the long time managers, winning a World Series for the Dodgers and the N.Y. Giants. This is a great book along with his other book. The Dodgers and Me. Both of these books are written the way he talked. In these books you can see whats wrong in the way Terry manages the Red Soxs! Both of these books are on Amazon.com, as new and used, both 5 star rated

 

One big problem is there are no players know how to bunt, which breaks up the double play also It may also be a good idea to use bunting as a way to disrupt a pitcher that is in a groove or is simply overpowering the hitters. The threat of the bunt changes the thinking of the pitcher in much the same way that a baserunner who is a threat to steal can. If a pitcher thinks a bunt is coming he becomes concerned with getting off the mound to field the ball and loses some concentration on pitch location. Bunting on a hot pitcher can change the rhythm of the pitcher and the flow of the game. Nice guys finish last!

[SoxSport]

Cripes, he has two 60 base stealers in the lineup, and hasn't figured out how to use them effectively.

His style is to sleep in the dugout, and let the players play the game out as individuals.

 

Crawford has had a tough time getting going, but Tito NEVER put him back to 2nd even after he started hitting. You think Crawford is happy buried no.6 in the lineup all year? You believe that, and you'll believe he's out of the lineup today because of a stiff neck. He's pissed off for not playing yesterday.

 

I'll say this: If the players are pissed at Tito, he is gone.

[iortiz]

Plenty of names have come up. The Theo fanboys either tell us that they couldn't be acquired by the Red Sox because they were too costly or some other reason. Yet, these guys were acquired by other teams. Other names that have come up have been met with the argument that they couldn't perform in the AL East or some other argument why they would not perform. If we mention, Freddie Garcia or Colon, that is met with a response that the Yankees were just lucky.

 

It's my opinion that there is a lot to criticize. The Trading Deadline decisions are certainly up for debate. Additionally, the way this team was built from the beginning should be called into question. There was never sufficient depth for this roster, at the minor league level or in the bullpen. If we criticize them for resigning Wakefield who was embarrassingly and obviously over the hill in 2010, we are told that he was the best available player for that role. Going back to the offseason 2010, I still believe that the FO made a mistake by going after Lackey and Cameron instead of Matt Holliday. If the Sox had acquired Holliday in 2010, that would have allowed them to make a big push for Cliff Lee. I continue to think that Lackey, Cameron and Crawford was the wrong direction. I also think Theo's record of failure with regard to big ticket free agent acquisitions is fair game.

 

Some posters will defend the FO and Theo and make every excuse for them to explain the team's performance. I continue to believe that injuries are a big cop out excuse. Those of you want to give him that as an excuse, good for you. That's your opinion. I believe differently. In the end, the FO will take the credit if this team succeeds. They should also be accountable if it fails. Not to do so would just be homerism.

 

As for calling pessimists the people here who have criticized the FO, speaking for myself, I still think they will manage to hang on. In the poll, I voted that they would hang on and win the World Series. That's not pessimistic. Many of the other posters criticizing Theo and the FO still think we will make the post season. Those of us who are being critical of the construction of this team warned that the Sox were on the verge of a collapse before we played the first September series against Tampa. We were told that it was unfounded fear and that it couldn't happen and that the Sox would put the dagger in the Rays that weekend. As it is turning out, more than two weeks since some of us started sounding alarm bells, the Sox are precipitously close to collapsing and they are playing terrible ball. Our fears and concerns were and still are justified and warranted. We never said definitively at any point, including now, that they would completely collapse. We only said that there was danger of a collapse. What was not warranted was the mocking of those who have been critical by calling them pessimists. Apparently, what was not warranted was the confidence that some posters held after the first September weekend series.

 

Agree.

 

This is what I'm talking about. No more, no less.

 

BTW and just to be clear, I wish/desire/want/hope/etc. That the RS makes the playoffs. Nevertheless, I tried to point what IMO is good or bad on this team, some around here seems to have a bandage on their eyes, I don't.

[jdlaughead]

What gets me it seems he has a bunch of HAS-BEENS, Losing 10 games so Wakefield can get his 200th win, that doesn't make sense, also has -beens have baggage, injuries! He now is running on a shoe string. His pitching coach seems to leave the pitchers in to long, even when their arm goes Dead. Why is it, that there is so many, so-called injuries, when back in the old days you never heard of a injury. Is the ball harder, are players weaker, are they on to many drugs, doesn't make sense.

 

Leo Durocher would say to his players," I don't give a damn how you get on base, just get on it!

[a700hitter]

Agree.

 

This is what I'm talking about. No more, no less.

 

BTW and just to be clear, I wish/desire/want/hope/etc. That the RS makes the playoffs. Nevertheless, I tried to point what IMO is good or bad on this team, some around here have a bandage on their eyes, I don't.

Yes, we all want them to make the playoffs. I think what has been borne out is that our concerns were not only valid, but those who were certain that the Sox were on the road to the playoffs had their heads in the sand. Anyone who thinks that these same concerns are not or will not be raised within the Red Sox organization doesn't know how a good organization is run. The Red Sox are a good organization, so I think they will be closely examining many of the things we discuss here. I think they view turnover as a healthy thing. The Theo to the Cubs story may have been more than just a wild rumor. We can't be sure who planted the story or why. Maybe the writer pulled it out of his ass? The story persisted for a while, so there might be something behind it.

[iortiz]

Yes' date=' we all want them to make the playoffs. [i']I think what has been borne out is that our concerns were not only valid, but those who were certain that the Sox were on the road to the playoffs had their heads in the sand.[/i] Anyone who thinks that these same concerns are not or will not be raised within the Red Sox organization doesn't know how a good organization is run. The Red Sox are a good organization, so I think they will be closely examining many of the things we discuss here. I think they view turnover as a healthy thing. The Theo to the Cubs story may have been more than just a wild rumor. We can't be sure who planted the story or why. Maybe the writer pulled it out of his ass? The story persisted for a while, so there might be something behind it.

 

Exactly.

 

 

BTW....Maybe Theo saw this coming and was the intellectual author in order to protect his ass.

[Palodios]

Plenty of names have come up. The Theo fanboys either tell us that they couldn't be acquired by the Red Sox because they were too costly or some other reason.

 

And once again, you guys are dodging the question. Names please.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wandy Rodriguez is one

[jacksonianmarch]

And Pal, your sig is interesting. You really think that if the fans believe then the sox will magically stop playing like dogshit? They'll stop playing like the 2003 Tigers when they stop getting pitching akin to that Tiger team.

[a700hitter]

And once again' date=' you guys are dodging the question. Names please.[/quote']Yes, Wandy Rodriquez is one. You should reread the old posts in numerous thread. Lots of names were discussed. Are you forgetful or just trolling?

[a700hitter]

Millwood is 3-2 with a 3.68. He has 4 Quality Starts in 7 starts. He has worked into the 6th inning in each of his 7 starts.

[Palodios]

Yes' date=' Wandy Rodriquez is one. You should reread the old posts in numerous thread. Lots of names were discussed. Are you forgetful or just trolling?[/quote']

 

I don't remember anyone mentioning Wandy in the last discussion, but that is a name I'd definitely agree with.

[a700hitter]

I don't remember anyone mentioning Wandy in the last discussion' date=' but that is a name I'd definitely agree with.[/quote']Wandy had been discussed, maybe not in the last few days, but he had been discussed.

[Reck]

And you guys still doubt me.

 

How dare you......

[SoxSport]

Millwood is 3-2 with a 3.68. He has 4 Quality Starts in 7 starts. He has worked into the 6th inning in each of his 7 starts.

 

They knew Millwood was better than Wake or Lackey. They also knew Harden was better.

 

So why did they let Millwood go, and back out of the Harden deal?

 

Because they had no intention of replacing Lackey or Wake in the rotation.

 

My guess is there was a split in the FO on this. Probably why they made the Harden deal, then backed out (I don't believe the excuses given about Harden's arm.) I think they let Millwood go for the same reason.

 

Bedard was obtained to replace Buchholz. That was acceptable.

 

Sometimes you have to figure these things out for yourself--because the media isn't going to tell you.

 

The management has f**ked this team up so badly this year, they don't deserve to make the playoffs.:thumbdown

[mvp 78]

I was calling for Millwood back then but don't remember anyone else speaking up. I'd rather people be honest about who they wanted at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 and I remember everyone blasting the Colon and Garcia pickups and praising the Crawford signing. Personally, I wanted Adam Dunn and would have been run out on rails if I was GM.

[lasitter]

Which games are the ones that Francona has won for us because of his shrewd tactical skills?

 

Is there any evidence that he knows how to motivate a team?

 

He doesn't seem to get that his job is NOT to be a player's friend.

 

He's the last one in the room to know that a pitcher HAS to come out.

 

In tonight's management lesson, Lackey gives up (8) EARNED runs in four and a third, against the BIRDS before he's yanked. Wow.

 

It's a miracle we won the game, and the team won it in spite of Francona, with plenty of help from an even more inept competitor on their own bad night.

 

I think the key comparison is looking at every other manager in the bigs and asking what would THEY have accomplished this year with the same resources. Who would have done WORSE?

 

With the money that's been thrown at this team, and the desire to manage a contender, is there any reason we shouldn't have one of the best managers in the game?

 

If losing every game left on the schedule meant we could also lose Francona, then that's what I'd pray for every night.

 

And if Theo can't draw a name out of a hat and find a better replacement then we should fire him too.

[lasitter]

Another way of looking at it: Your picks or your exclusions from the list below. Feel free to supplement with managers that might be available but aren't currently active on this list.

 

Team           TOTAL PAYROLL   Manager        EXP  2011 W/L       

Royals         $  36,126,000   Ned Yost         8   67 -87   
Rays           $  41,053,571   Joe Maddon       8   85 -67   
Pirates        $  45,047,000   Clint Hurdle     9   68 -85   
Padres         $  45,869,140   Bud Black        5   65 -88   
Guardians        $  49,190,566   Manny Acta       5   75 -75   
Diamondbacks   $  53,639,833   Kirk Gibson      2   88 -65   
Marlins        $  56,944,000   Jack McKeon     17   37 -44   
Blue Jays      $  62,567,800   John Farrell     1   77 -75   
Nationals      $  63,856,928   Davey Johnson   15   32 -41   
Athletics      $  66,536,500   Bob Melvin       8   42 -48   
Astros         $  70,694,000   Brad Mills       2   52-100   
Reds           $  75,947,134   Dusty Baker     18   74 -79   
Orioles        $  85,304,038   Buck Showalter  13   62 -89   
Brewers        $  85,497,333   Ron Roenicke     1   90 -63   
Mariners       $  86,524,600   Eric Wedge       9   63 -89   
Braves         $  87,002,692   Fredi Gonzalez   5   87 -66   
Rockies        $  88,148,071   Jim Tracy       10   70 -82   
Rangers        $  92,299,264   Ron Washington   5   88 -65   
Dodgers        $ 104,188,999   Don Mattingly    1   76 -76   
Cardinals      $ 105,433,572   Tony La Russa   34   83 -69   
Tigers         $ 105,700,231   Jim Leyland     20   89 -64   
Twins          $ 112,737,000   Ron Gardenhire  10   59 -92   
Giants         $ 118,198,333   Bruce Bochy     17   83 -70   
Mets           $ 118,847,309   Terry Collins    7   73 -80   
Cubs           $ 125,047,329   Mike Quade       2   67 -86   
White Sox      $ 127,789,000   Ozzie Guillen    8   74 -78   
Angels         $ 138,543,166   Mike Scioscia   12   83 -69   
Red Sox        $ 161,762,475   Terry Francona  12   87 -65   
Phillies       $ 172,976,379   Charlie Manuel  10   98 -53   
Yankees        $ 202,689,028   Joe Girardi      5   91 -60

 

Sources:

 

2011 MLB Salaries by Team

MLB Managers

[SoxSport]

Tito keeps starters in too long because he wastes his bullpen in games when he doesn't need them.

For example, when a starter is sharp and cruising, he often takes them out at 100 or so pitches instead of letting them go to 110-120, and an extra inning or so. That taxes the middle relief, so he doesn't have them when he needs them. The other thing he does is change relievers every inning--regardless of how sharp they are. That's another bullpen killer.

 

You often hear complaints about Tito leaving starters in too long, and also about taking starters out too soon. Both are correct. That's because he misuses the bullpen. There is an overreliance on pitch counts for starters, and an overuse of the bullpen that results in underachieving of pitching in Boston.That's probably the reason why Theo has to redo the middle relief every year. Too many one inning appearances, not enough innings/appearance for relievers.

[Palodios]

How about Ozzie Guillen? I think it would be refreshing to see some emotion coming from the manager spot for a little while

[Cocos Disciples]

How about Ozzie Guillen? I think it would be refreshing to see some emotion coming from the manager spot for a little while

 

Threw up in my mouth a bit.

[starwarsgeekperson]

Better be.

[a700hitter]

Probably.

[SoxSport]

The guy I'd like to see who's available would be Larry Bowa.

 

He's on MLB.com a lot these days--one of their analysts, so he may have become acceptable

to the media. I say "may." Bowa has a lot of experience coaching and managing, and is a no-nonsense guy. He can be a hothead, but he's a winner--a Pedroia-type player who was SS on the '80 champion Phillies. He will kick ass and stress fundamentals.

 

I doubt he would be acceptable to Red Sox management.

[SoxSport]

I was calling for Millwood back then but don't remember anyone else speaking up. I'd rather people be honest about who they wanted at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 and I remember everyone blasting the Colon and Garcia pickups and praising the Crawford signing. Personally' date=' I wanted Adam Dunn and would have been run out on rails if I was GM.[/quote']

 

Colon and Garcia overachieved. Dunn has been a disaster. Lackey a disaster. Millwood pitched pretty well at Pawtucket, and deserved better. But he was not part of the pecking order.

[IRON HORSE]

Whoever says Francona is done managing the red sox needs their head examined. Tito has worked magic for the red sox and in my opinion one of the best managers in MLB. If you think Tito is done then truly you are not a geniune red fan. This month as been atrocious for the red sox but unfortunately if you have an old team and the season is coming to an end you will be plagued with injuries. As we all know we have had a bunch this year (especially with pitching). I believe we will make the playoffs and Bucholz will return to the roster. Being a member of Red Sox nation you have to believe, so lets believe and hope that the red sox will make the playoffs and will be playing the Detroit Tigers. GO SOX GO!!!!

[SoxSport]

The Globe (Shaughnessy) this morning is turning against the Red Sox--saying they don't deserve to make the playoffs. They are also now talking about differences between Theo and Francona--which is the kiss of death for Francona. Managers always take the hit in these situations, though it wasn't Tito who put the roster together. He is responsible, however, for the team's shoddy play on the field and the disarray in the pitching.

[lasitter]

Francona bears sole responsibility for making sure the team is ready to play fundamentally sound baseball, even when the lineup's not hitting well. He is responsible for all the tactical decisions made in the game. He's primarily responsible for motivating the team.

 

It's easy to manage a team that's on fire, but he has failed on all accounts this month.

 

Right now it looks like the only thing that can save him is the rain.