Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dojji]

Signing Lackey' date=' trying to extend Beckett, offering a deal to Chapman, this isn't the cheap ass Theo I'm accustomed to![/quote']

 

Theo has never been cheap. He's just been occasionally outbid -- an occupational hazard when we're not the only big market around.

[jacksonianmarch]

Theo has been outbid by amounts that make him look cheap

[Dojji]

Not really, considering who usually does the outbidding. ANYONE looks cheap if they're compared directly to the Yankees.

[TheMino007]

The only time Theo wasn't cheap was when he made two terrible signings for guys he had hard-ons for- Drew and Lugo, and look how both of them have turned out.

[Dojji]

i'll give you Lugo, but Drew has been one of the staples of the team -- one of our best players, actually. Especially over the last two years.

 

As for Lugo, well, I think we're just going to have to accept that when it comes to shortstops, Theo is guessing. But that has nothing to do with cheap. That has to do with not knowing how to handle staffing a position.

 

Besides, he's been quite generous in locking down our young talent. That counts for something. Because before you can be accused of being cheap you have to have players available that are actually worth paying for. Other than a couple guys we missed out on because the Yankees were determined not to be beaten on them, I can't think of too many times Theo hasn't gotten his man.

[TheMino007]

Lugo is a given, and Drew is up for debate, lets not get into that again because we know where that will lead too... anyway, Theo does deserve credit for giving players like Beckett, Pedrioa, Youkilis there extensions early on to keep their costs relaively low compared to their value on the FA market. But to be real blunt, he has never really made a big free agent signing during his time here. He has pulled off some great trades a signed some great talent off of the scrap heaps, but he hasn't brought in a high priced effective guy. Lugo was a bust, Drew has been plagued by criticism since he got here. Dice-K hasn't lived upt to all that money that was posted for him. Schilling, Beckett, V-Mart, Bay were all brought here through trades. Youk, Peds, Ellsbury, Papelbon, Lester were all prospects in the Sox farm system. The only huge contract on the payroll was Manny Rameriz's, and that contract was a holdover from the Duquette era which Theo would constantly try to unload.

[Dojji]

But to be real blunt, he has never really made a big free agent signing during his time here.

 

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/DaisukeMatsuzaka97219479_Yankees_v_Red_Sox.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3007/2656902665_427a476098.jpg

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/12/1248/QC1T000Z/matt-clement--05-pitching-action.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/23591202_49d0c87114.jpg

Would you care to revise that statement?

[CoachC.]

I wouldn't put Mueller and Clement in the same camp as the other two.

[TheMino007]

If you read I said he picked up some talent off the scrap heaps, example Ortiz, Mueller, guys that had talent that didn't cost a lot. Mueller wasn't the everyday guy reguarly until Hillenbrand was traded for BK Kim in 03. Matt Clement? That was a a huge FA signing and that guy was good for half a year anyway. You really think Dice-K has lived up to all the hype?

[Dojji]

And why not? There is no law that all big free agent signings are successful, is there? Just because a guy bombed bigtime here, whether through his own fault or not, doesn't mean we didn't take a risk on him. That's revisionist thinking, and it's actually quite sloppy.

 

Theo operates through trades, acquires veterans for excess rookies, and develops his own players, supplementing from free agency mostly as a Plan C. When he really needs to, he's not afraid to spend, it's just not his first option. This is not a bad thing, especially when you're competing against a team that can really screw with you in free agency. And if you're willing to take on salary to bring a quality player, that should allay the accusations of cheapness anyway.

 

Besides, among the big free agents we signed are several players who have hit free agency and been re-upped. Schilling and Lowell probably most recently. That counts, as we wouldn't have kept them otherwise.

[TheMino007]

I never said it was a bad thing, I just said Theo has never made a real big free agent splash for a high paid guy that has paid off.

[Dojji]

Now you're adding another conditional that was never there in your initial statement. There is no iron law that a big name talent has to pay off. And since Theo has said, practically in so many words, that free agency is his talent source of last resort, I'm honestly not sure why you expected there to be too many examples of him going there.

[Teddyballgame10]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/dan_shaughnessy/12/14/sox.yanks/index.html?eref=sihp

 

Good article, not sure where to put it. I know fans are split into two camps now but I honestly don't get why we wouldn't trade two to three out of Jose Iglesias, Ryan Kalish, Ryan Westmorland, Casey Kelly, Lars Anderson, Tazawa, Bowden. Why are people so confidante that these guys are going to be so good that it isn't worth trading them to get a stud third basemen who is young and entering his prime. I had this argument about Dojji last year, who cares about Lars Anderson (not that, that was the sole reason we didnt get him) when you have a sure thing in Tex?

[Dojji]

Actually I think it's more the opposite. We aren't that confident in these rookies, all hope notwithstanding. During that conversation I think you'll recall that I admitted that the possibility of Anderson collapsing was there, but that we'd have plenty of opportunities to fill that hole another way should that happen. One of the ways you do that is with redundant depth of prospects. It's one of the reasons I'm glad Anthony Rizzo, for example, is hitting well too.

 

Anywho, point being, once upon a time this team had two dynamite top 3B prospects -- Jeff Bagwell and Scott Cooper. They both looked good, so we decided we could spare one. I think you just might remember how that one turned out for us.

[Plumpamania]

Very true on the Cooper/Bagwell point, however at least we aren't talking for a mid 30's MR, we are talking about a stud 1B who hit 30+ HRs in Petco..

[Dojji]

Right, but 1B isn't exactly the only position we'll need to replace in the next 3 years either.

 

I'm not saying trade no one. I'm just saying a certain conservatism is in order.

[Gom]

You know what's really funny?

 

Dipre must be DYING to get his two cents worth in here. The biggest more the Red Sox have made since 2007...and he leaves a few days before.

 

I'm annoyed you got Lackey, but at least it came with a silver lining.

[Dojji]

I can just picture you tooling around in your cab grinning your fool head off.

 

You need to learn to let this stuff go. You'll stay saner.

[Gom]

Actually I'm home today with the flu.

 

Not like today's baseball news made me feel any better.

[Dojji]

Man, this flu stuff is bad. news. It's all over these days.

[example1]

Lackey > Burnett

 

This is why Theo waits and sometimes looks cheap.

[italstallianion]

Lackey > Burnett

 

This is why Theo waits and sometimes looks cheap.

 

 

There's nothing cheap about 5/$85

[a700hitter]

RedSox.com is reporting that they have made an offer to Chapman. I'm on my Blackberry with bad access. Is that a new development

[Cocos Disciples]

RedSox.com is reporting that they have made an offer to Chapman. I'm on my Blackberry with bad access. Is that a new development

 

It's been posted but yes, it was just reported today. $15.5 million total, though I'm not sure about years.

[CoachC.]

RedSox.com is reporting that they have made an offer to Chapman. I'm on my Blackberry with bad access. Is that a new development

 

They offered that before he hired his new agent and Hendricks said his client was not accepting offers at the time so who knows.

[Gom]

RedSox.com is reporting that they have made an offer to Chapman. I'm on my Blackberry with bad access. Is that a new development

 

Not really. So far, the Red Sox have made the only offer.

 

I don't know about Lackey and Burnett. Lackey is definitely the more consistent pitcher, but Burnett has more talent. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with Lackey...but not by much.

 

Let's see what Cashman has up his sleeve. So far, he's been outmanuevered by Theo. We added Granderson for pretty much nothing, but Lackey and Scutaro were by far bigger transitions, and the Sox have all of their depth to deal.

[Keeper]

In fairness to Cashman, the Sox have more needs to address than the Yankees. But Lackey is definitely better than Burnett. Burnett may have better stuff, but he also has worse command and historically has been less durable.

[CoachC.]

Cameron in serious talks with Red Sox on two-year deal. CF or LF unclear.

 

[Plumpamania]

Not really. So far, the Red Sox have made the only offer.

 

I don't know about Lackey and Burnett. Lackey is definitely the more consistent pitcher, but Burnett has more talent. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with Lackey...but not by much.

 

Let's see what Cashman has up his sleeve. So far, he's been outmanuevered by Theo. We added Granderson for pretty much nothing, but Lackey and Scutaro were by far bigger transitions, and the Sox have all of their depth to deal.

 

Granderson for Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy isn't nothing but it's surely better than giving up Hughes or Chamberlain.

[Gom]

Yes it is.