Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Spudboy]

I wonder who will perform better next year....Clay or Joba.

 

Lol.

 

I'm going to assume you are not trying to stir s*** up here.

 

Both of them have the potential (it would seem) to become very effective, even dominant pitchers in the future.

 

Buck has shown recently that he is getting his s*** together. And, from what I have seen, may be further along towards becoming what he can be than Joba. But I have not seen as much of Joba as I have seen Buck.

 

I like power pitchers. So I like what I think what Joba may become.

 

Buck has an assortment of plus pitches and may be more of a Pedro type.

 

I did not understand the "Joba Rules". What was that about?

 

I think that both are young and immature. They both appear to need to be able to maintain focus. I see this as the limiting factor in their ability to develop.

 

I suspect Buck will have more success in 2010 because I have seen him pitch more than I have seen Joba. But I would not discount Joba's ability to become a major contributor in the Yankee's rotation, either.

 

I'm interested in Houghs.

[Dipre]

Watch those diving catches in that link and tell me where he went wrong on any of them.

 

I really don't believe that's an accurate reflection of his fielding abilities.

[BSN07]

Jacoby makes a lot of "flashy" "memorable" plays. This is why he won. I don't see a reason to delve any deeper then that.

 

As far as Pujols vs Hanley availability goes, it's hands down Hanley. Neither player should be available obviously. But we all know how Florida operates.

 

Joba vs Buchholz- If Joba goes to the pen it's probably a draw. It all depends on what you prefer I would guess. Decent to good SP(Buchholz could be great, but let's be fair, he still needs to do it), or lights out BP work(which we have seen Joba give already).

If They are both SP, I give the nod to Buchholz.

[Dipre]

Jacoby makes a lot of "flashy" "memorable" plays. This is why he won. I don't see a reason to delve any deeper then that.

 

As far as Pujols vs Hanley availability goes, it's hands down Hanley. Neither player should be available obviously. But we all know how Florida operates.

 

Joba vs Buchholz- If Joba goes to the pen it's probably a draw. It all depends on what you prefer I would guess. Decent to good SP(Buchholz could be great, but let's be fair, he still needs to do it), or lights out BP work(which we have seen Joba give already).

If Theya re both SP, I give the nod to Buchholz.

 

This is a very fair and sensible position. Kudos BSN.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am very intrigued as to which Joba shows up. He showed flashes of sheer dominance against good teams. Then he'd lay up against some horrible offenses. The inconsistency was maddening. If he shows any sign of consistent stuff start to start, he'll be one hell of a pitcher. I think with the Joba rule soon to become the Hughes rules, we should see less variation with Joba. I just hope we dont make the mistake of moving him to the pen for a subpar starter. Unless we get Sheets or a top notch pitcher, then moving Joba to the pen only hurts us in the long run.

[a700hitter]

Agreed' date=' we need a bat. The Bay loss alone is devastating. Where are 36 homers going to come from now?[/quote']Kotchman should easily get 8.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Cameron is good for 24 HR or so

[26 to 6]

Twitter needs to die.

I'm not a twitter user and I don't personally like it much, but a lot of us have a hard time considering it a credible source. I don't however, twitter isn't the source of the news, it's the writers who write for the papers and outlets that we DO consider credible sources. They just happen to have twitter accounts to get their news out quicker. I have no problem viewing what I see on Jon Heyman's twitter page with as much credibility as what I see in his SI columns and on-air reports.

 

I know it's not really relevant to any of the current discussion but it's something I noticed and I just wanted to share my opinion on the subject.

[SoxSport]

I said this somewhere, but it's Lowell's 17 HR at 3B that have to be made up. VMart and Cameron can make up Bay's 36.

Can Beltre hit 17 HR? He should be good for 25 based on his 07 and 08 stats--if he's healthy.

 

Beltre is a good sign for them if they can get him for 8-10 mil up to 4 years. Kotchman at 1B doesn't do it for me. 1B is a power position. He didn't hit a lick last year.

 

It's AdGon or Beltre or bust, Theo. I'll take Beltre, and gamble he'll get back to his 08 stats or better at Fenway. Keep Ellsbury, Buchholz and the young talent.

 

If they keep their talent and sign Beltre, they'll give the Yankees a run for their $200 million.

[Dipre]

I said this somewhere, but it's Lowell's 17 HR at 3B that have to be made up. VMart and Cameron can make up Bay's 36.

Can Beltre hit 17 HR? He should be good for 25 based on his 07 and 08 stats--if he's healthy.

 

Beltre is a good sign for them if they can get him for 8-10 mil up to 4 years. Kotchman at 1B doesn't do it for me. 1B is a power position. He didn't hit a lick last year.

 

It's AdGon or Beltre or bust, Theo. I'll take Beltre, and gamble he'll get back to his 08 stats or better at Fenway. Keep Ellsbury, Buchholz and the young talent.

 

If they keep their talent and sign Beltre, they'll give the Yankees a run for their $200 million.

 

I approve of this post. Not to mention the potential for the best defensive squads i have ever seen the Red Sox trot out there.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bay gave you 36 homers in 2009. Varitek gave you 14, VMart gave you 8. Lowell gave you 17. Gonzalez gave you 5 and Nick Green gave you 6 from the SS position.

 

Are you saying that, between Cameron, Scutaro, Kotchmann, and VMart for 2010, you are going to make up 86 bombs? A full season of VMart should be in the 23-25HR range. Cameron probably in the 25HR range as long as he keeps it up. Scutaro, aside from 2009, was more of a 7HR per yr kind of player. And Kotchmann is more of a 12HR guy. So, between all the new acquisitions playing out a full yr, you are still short about 17-20 homers, not to mention a lot of SLG.

 

Lets be honest here. The sox improved significantly in the rotation. They have taken a pretty significant step back offensively. And they have improved their defense significantly depending on their positioning (Cameron in CF and Ells in LF would be much better than the reverse)

[Dipre]

Bay gave you 36 homers in 2009. Varitek gave you 14, VMart gave you 8. Lowell gave you 17. Gonzalez gave you 5 and Nick Green gave you 6 from the SS position.

 

Are you saying that, between Cameron, Scutaro, Kotchmann, and VMart for 2010, you are going to make up 86 bombs? A full season of VMart should be in the 23-25HR range. Cameron probably in the 25HR range as long as he keeps it up. Scutaro, aside from 2009, was more of a 7HR per yr kind of player. And Kotchmann is more of a 12HR guy. So, between all the new acquisitions playing out a full yr, you are still short about 17-20 homers, not to mention a lot of SLG.

 

Lets be honest here. The sox improved significantly in the rotation. They have taken a pretty significant step back offensively. And they have improved their defense significantly depending on their positioning (Cameron in CF and Ells in LF would be much better than the reverse)

 

Still, you shouldn't assume Kotchman will be the starting 1B.

[jacksonianmarch]

right now he is. I understand that there is a significant likelihood of an upgrade. But as of right now, Beltre is looking like less of a possibility and an AdGon deal looks more detrimental than beneficial.

[Dipre]

right now he is. I understand that there is a significant likelihood of an upgrade. But as of right now' date=' Beltre is looking like less of a possibility and an AdGon deal looks more detrimental than beneficial.[/quote']

 

Even someone like Adam LaRoche and Russ Branyan is fully capable of a 20 HR season. If i'm you, i slot 20+ HR's from the 1B spot for the Sox 2010 squad. There are simply too many options out there.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree that there are options. I just think that Theo might actually put Kotchmann out there. See, Theo comes and goes in waves. He starts to value defense before baseball people value defense, then he'll value OBP, then SLG, then pitching. He ebbs and flows based on what failed him in yrs past. This yr, he's going back to the 2004 blueprint of improving the D. And Kotchmann is a GG caliber 1b. Would not be surprised if he breaks camp as the starting 1b. Now, he might not stick there, but his glove is huge. To be honest with you, I love Tex's bat, but his glove made a massive difference. Moving Youk to 3b will help and keeping a GG caliber 1b could save a few errors and improve team D.

[Dipre]

I agree that there are options. I just think that Theo might actually put Kotchmann out there. See' date=' Theo comes and goes in waves. He starts to value defense before baseball people value defense, then he'll value OBP, then SLG, then pitching. He ebbs and flows based on what failed him in yrs past. This yr, he's going back to the 2004 blueprint of improving the D. And Kotchmann is a GG caliber 1b. Would not be surprised if he breaks camp as the starting 1b. Now, he might not stick there, but his glove is huge. To be honest with you, I love Tex's bat, but his glove made a massive difference. Moving Youk to 3b will help and keeping a GG caliber 1b could save a few errors and improve team D.[/quote']

 

Kotchman is not starting the year with a strangehold on the 1B position. At the very least, he'll be platooned. You heard it here first.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldnt put it past Theo. Who would be the righty? Would it be Youk at 1b and a righty 3b? Who knows.

 

BTW, it is kinda funny that it isnt even Christmas and the two biggest offensive FAs havent moved, but the sox and yankees are pretty much set.

[Dipre]

I wouldnt put it past Theo. Who would be the righty? Would it be Youk at 1b and a righty 3b? Who knows.

 

BTW, it is kinda funny that it isnt even Christmas and the two biggest offensive FAs havent moved, but the sox and yankees are pretty much set.

 

V-Mart.

[Palodios]

With the Yankees supposedly not picking up either of the big sluggers out there because of the Nick Johnson signing, what are the chances of the sox signing bay or holliday now? By the sound of it, the mets don't want to give Bay any more money than the Sox offered, and the Cardinals are the only ones with a serious offer for Holliday.

 

Do any members of the current roster have any experience at 1st or 3rd base?

[Red Foreman]

On the issue of replacing Bay's HRs, Cameron and VMart over a whole year will more than compensate.

 

There is an issue of replacing Lowell's HRs (17) if he is traded.

 

I can't stand those 2 for 1 comparisons. They still need a bigger power threat in the middle of the order IMO.

[example1]

On WEEI today before noon' date=' Tito said that he likes this team and he thinks its great that the defense and pitching have been improved. That was the focus of the off-season. He doesn't see the need for additional moves, and then he concluded with an unsolicited compliment for Kotchman. He said that he really liked him and that he wouldn't mind having him in the bottom of the lineup catching every ball at 1B. He went on and on about the guy without being asked about him. I almost drove off the rode. If this is an indication that Theo will wait till mid seaso to see if he needs another bat, the Yankees will bury us if we don't get another bat. If the Lowell trade goes through, essentially we will have replaced Lowell's and Bay's bats with Cameron and Kotchman. That doesn't add up to me.[/quote']

 

It doesn't add up because that's not the roster that you or I or Theo would want.

 

Kotchman can man 1B temporarily. He's a good defensive player and put up a decent 2.5 WAR in 2007 at 24, so he's capable of having decent seasons on good teams in the AL. He's not a longterm plan but he can hold it down until a better option is available.

 

The team has already improved its run differential from last year and doesn't have gaping holes that other teams can take advantage of in negotiations. The deal needs to make sense for this team moving forward and not aim exclusively for one year.

[jacksonianmarch]

V-Mart.

 

Then who catches? Mauer isnt getting dealt until midseason, IMO, and only if the Twins are way out of it, which I think they wont be. Other than that, are there any catchers out there that are worth their salt? Or are you thinking Vtek gets another shot.

[Dipre]

Then who catches? Mauer isnt getting dealt until midseason' date=' IMO, and only if the Twins are way out of it, which I think they wont be. Other than that, are there any catchers out there that are worth their salt? Or are you thinking Vtek gets another shot.[/quote']

 

Tito will play him. You know he will.

[The_Destroyah]

you know in '04 I never thought that Id one day wish for Tek to suffer a career ending injury, but at this point Id rather have almost anyone else than have to suffer through one of his ABs or see him throw a dribbling grounder to 2nd trying to throw out a runner...it makes me miserable.

[Emmz]

Yeah, agreed. It's painful and maddening to watch 'Tek's at bats.

[a700hitter]

Kotchman can man 1B temporarily. He's a good defensive player and put up a decent 2.5 WAR in 2007 at 24' date=' so he's [i']capable[/i] of having decent seasons on good teams in the AL. He's not a longterm plan but he can hold it down until a better option is available.

If the last deal that the Sox make this offseason is to trade Lowell, and break camp with Kotchman and Cameron replacing Lowell and Bay in the lineup, they will be 15 games out by the trading deadline IMO.

[Lester82]

they will be 15 games out by the trading deadline IMO.

 

Yeah, that's really going to happen with a rotation of Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, John Lackey, Clay Buchholz and Daisuke Matsuzaka, plus some of the best defense in the league and still having Ellsbury, Pedroia, Victor Martinez and Kevin Youkilis (Drew also) in their lineup. With a pretty good 'pen.

 

But other than that, I guess we might give Baltimore a run

 

[Dipre]

Yeah, that's really going to happen with a rotation of Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, John Lackey, Clay Buchholz and Daisuke Matsuzaka, plus some of the best defense in the league and still having Ellsbury, Pedroia, Victor Martinez and Kevin Youkilis (Drew also) in their lineup. With a pretty good 'pen.

 

But other than that, I guess we might give Baltimore a run

 

The sarcasm is unwarranted, for one. I'm not trying to be a dick but he's entitled to his opinion, and while he is exaggerating, he has a point. Kotchman is simply not a very good player, and shouldn't be starting even for a limited time on this ballclub.

[Lester82]

I'm not trying to be a dick

 

[Emmz]

Yeah, that's really going to happen with a rotation of Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, John Lackey, Clay Buchholz and Daisuke Matsuzaka, plus some of the best defense in the league and still having Ellsbury, Pedroia, Victor Martinez and Kevin Youkilis (Drew also) in their lineup. With a pretty good 'pen.

 

But other than that, I guess we might give Baltimore a run

 

 

If we stand pat, we'd have lost a step from last season. While our rotation would be far and away the best in baseball, that alone can't win games if you have a guy like Kotchman playing first. Our offense loses a step, in that case; Think about it, we lose Bay and Lowell, and replace them with Cameron and Kotchman, respectively. That's a fairly significant downgrade offensively in both cases, even given Mike Lowell's age and injuries.