Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[TheMino007]

Bay is coming back to Boston and Holliday isn't signing with Boston with the Sox signing Cameron today.

[ORS]

The reasoning behind that seems suspect. I think Cameron's signing indicates the OF is set.

[CoachC.]

Bay is coming back to Boston .

 

lolwut?

[example1]

Bay is coming back to Boston and Holliday isn't signing with Boston with the Sox signing Cameron today.

 

Why do you think this means either is coming to Boston?

 

If Cameron is a legit CF option might they move Ellsbury to LF? Could they ship him someplace in a mega deal?

 

Why does this influence Bay over Holliday?

[CoachC.]

The reasoning behind that seems suspect. I think Cameron's signing indicates the OF is set.

 

I think he meant to say Bay isn't coming back to Boston.

[TheMino007]

thats what I meant to say. Bay isn't coming back haha. well not really, I loved Bay.

[SCM33]

I think all the moves this offseason are starting to build a picture when I think about them. Call me crazy, but this is what I see:

 

Laptop

Max Ramirez

Lowrie

Bowden

Kotchman + $$ to cover Kotchmans salary

 

for

 

Adrian Gonzalez

 

Explanation for SD to make the deal:

1. Top flight starting pitcher who has a chance to dominate in the NL.

2. Max Ramirez gives them their long term solution to replacing Adrian Gonzalez.

3. Jed Lowrie gives them the opportunity to trade Kouzmanoff (which has been rumored). Jed Lowrie will be given the opportunity to play 3B.

4. Bowden gives them another prospect who has dropped off, but may fare well in the NL.

5. Kotchman gives them their 1B for this season, with Ramirez in the wings.

 

San Diegos new GM is very familiar with all of the players involved (Ramirez excluded). I think its a deal that an NL team, especially the small payroll Padres would have to consider, especially considering the ages and MLB experience of the prospects/players included.

[Tyler Durden]

The Padres have every right to rape your farm system for Gonzalez. The guy is getting paid peanuts and he's a stud.

 

Pick 4.

 

Clay Buchholz

Daniel Bard

Casey Kelly

Ryan Westmoreland

Lars Anderson

Ryan Kalish

Anthony Rizzo

[Dojji]

We don't have Max Ramirez. That trade looks like it's gonna fall through.

[Gom]

I think all the moves this offseason are starting to build a picture when I think about them. Call me crazy, but this is what I see:

 

Laptop

Max Ramirez

Lowrie

Bowden

Kotchman + $$ to cover Kotchmans salary

 

for

 

Adrian Gonzalez

 

Explanation for SD to make the deal:

1. Top flight starting pitcher who has a chance to dominate in the NL.

2. Max Ramirez gives them their long term solution to replacing Adrian Gonzalez.

3. Jed Lowrie gives them the opportunity to trade Kouzmanoff (which has been rumored). Jed Lowrie will be given the opportunity to play 3B.

4. Bowden gives them another prospect who has dropped off, but may fare well in the NL.

5. Kotchman gives them their 1B for this season, with Ramirez in the wings.

 

San Diegos new GM is very familiar with all of the players involved (Ramirez excluded). I think its a deal that an NL team, especially the small payroll Padres would have to consider, especially considering the ages and MLB experience of the prospects/players included.

I'll play SD gm.

 

No. Unequivocably no.

 

Why?

 

Laptop is fine.

 

Ramirez is garbage. Not interested. Jed Lowrie is garbage. Not interested. Bowden is garbage. Not interested. Kotchman is garbage, not interested.

 

You're trading garbage in quantity...but it's still garbage.

 

Let me ask you something...first of all, this is assuming you actually finish the Lowell/Ramirez deal, but I'll play along...

 

Would you trade...[again assuming they are on different teams] Buchholz for Lowrie, Ramirez, and Kotchman? No way on earth. It's not about QUANTITY, but about QUALITY. You're not giving up enough QUALITY.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Buchholz, Reddick/Kalish, Ramirez (lets just say we get him), Lowrie, Pimentel for Agon

[SCM33]

I'll play SD gm.

 

No. Unequivocably no.

 

Why?

 

Laptop is fine.

 

Ramirez is garbage. Not interested. Jed Lowrie is garbage. Not interested. Bowden is garbage. Not interested. Kotchman is garbage, not interested.

 

You're trading garbage in quantity...but it's still garbage.

 

Let me ask you something...first of all, this is assuming you actually finish the Lowell/Ramirez deal, but I'll play along...

 

Would you trade...[again assuming they are on different teams] Buchholz for Lowrie, Ramirez, and Kotchman? No way on earth. It's not about QUANTITY, but about QUALITY. You're not giving up enough QUALITY.

 

 

That is how you value them as a Yankees fan, because you would hate to see Gonzalez in a Boston uniform.

 

Ramirez is not garbage, he is unproven and was hurt last year. Same with Lowrie, who has shown some promise. Bowden dominated in AAA. NL is looked at as a inferior league. He could do well there, and hes young. Kotchman is a short term player, who also is not garbage. He is a servicable player on a team like SD.

 

If those players are a starting point, and they want someone else, so be it as most of those players no longer have an opportunity to play in Boston. I still think deal that at least begins with those players is possible, with the hopefulness that the Lowell deal goes through. We dont know how Jed Hoyer values those players, remember......he has risen through the ranks watching those players on a daily basis.

[Gom]

That is how you value them as a Yankees fan, because you would hate to see Gonzalez in a Boston uniform.

 

Ramirez is not garbage, he is unproven and was hurt last year. Same with Lowrie, who has shown some promise. Bowden dominated in AAA. NL is looked at as a inferior league. He could do well there, and hes young. Kotchman is a short term player, who also is not garbage. He is a servicable player on a team like SD.

 

If those players are a starting point, and they want someone else, so be it as most of those players no longer have an opportunity to play in Boston. I still think deal that at least begins with those players is possible, with the hopefulness that the Lowell deal goes through. We dont know how Jed Hoyer values those players, remember......he has risen through the ranks watching those players on a daily basis.

 

Of course I don't want to see him in a Boston uniform...but that has nothing to do with it.

 

Look...I can make you an offer of ten yankee prospects...but if they are not blue chip prospects, it aint happening. You're offering garbage in quantity. If you don't believe so, join our fantasy baseball league and trade with me. See what I do to you.

 

This deal starts with Buchholz, Kelly AND Westmoreland. If I was the Padres. If not, I'd go see what the Dodgers would give up, and the Angels, and Texas. Hell, the Yankees would give up Joba/Hughes and probably Montero and stick one of Tex and AG at DH and call it a day. That blows away your package.

[ORS]

Quit pretending, Gom. You know absolutely nothing about the quality of any teams' prospects, even your own.

[SCM33]

Of course I don't want to see him in a Boston uniform...but that has nothing to do with it.

 

Look...I can make you an offer of ten yankee prospects...but if they are not blue chip prospects, it aint happening. You're offering garbage in quantity. If you don't believe so, join our fantasy baseball league and trade with me. See what I do to you.

 

This deal starts with Buchholz, Kelly AND Westmoreland. If I was the Padres. If not, I'd go see what the Dodgers would give up, and the Angels, and Texas. Hell, the Yankees would give up Joba/Hughes and probably Montero and stick one of Tex and AG at DH and call it a day. That blows away your package.

 

The Sox best prospect is already included in the deal. MLB ready Clay Bucholz. Kelly is not going anywhere, and Westmoreland most likely isnt.

 

You could argue that Laptop is as valuable as Joba/Hughes.....so why would adding Montero blow away my offer? Nobody even knows what Joba is, he is a risk. Not a bad risk, but you dont know if he is a SP or RP. Hughes was lights out outta the bullpen, but was pretty bad as a SP. Who is to say Laptop couldnt have done as well in the bullpen? All three are very good. Does Montero really make the deal better than Ramirez, Lowrie and Bowden, with the possibility of someone like Luis Esposito © thrown in?

[Tyler Durden]

The Sox best prospect is already included in the deal. MLB ready Clay Bucholz. Kelly is not going anywhere, and Westmoreland most likely isnt.

 

You could argue that Laptop is as valuable as Joba/Hughes.....so why would adding Montero blow away my offer? Nobody even knows what Joba is, he is a risk. Not a bad risk, but you dont know if he is a SP or RP. Hughes was lights out outta the bullpen, but was pretty bad as a SP. Who is to say Laptop couldnt have done as well in the bullpen? All three are very good. Does Montero really make the deal better than Ramirez, Lowrie and Bowden, with the possibility of someone like Luis Esposito © thrown in?

 

Montero is better than any prospect you can offer. Obviously.

 

So if Hughes/Joba = Buchholz, who you said is your best prospect, than the Yankees clearly blowsyour offer away. With Montero, Hughes/Joba and Buchholz, and whoever you offer.

[Gom]

Quit pretending' date=' Gom. You know absolutely nothing about the quality of any teams' prospects, even your own.[/quote']

 

Just from what I read. You know what I do?

 

When a team starts talking about my team's prospects, I go to THEIR local papers and see what they say about the prospects. Why? The Yankees overhype their prospects to no end. I want to see what the other team thinks.

 

Try it some time. When I go to Toronto's local papers, and they were saying that Montero had to be in the deal, then you know what? I start thinking maybe this Montero kid is pretty good.

 

Try that instead of believing what your FO tells you what to think.

[Cocos Disciples]

Just from what I read. You know what I do?

 

When a team starts talking about my team's prospects, I go to THEIR local papers and see what they say about the prospects. Why? The Yankees overhype their prospects to no end. I want to see what the other team thinks.

 

Try it some time. When I go to Toronto's local papers, and they were saying that Montero had to be in the deal, then you know what? I start thinking maybe this Montero kid is pretty good.

 

Try that instead of believing what your FO tells you what to think.

 

To be fair, I think most fans get info on prospects from non biased (or as non biased as possible) sites like Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, etc, as opposed to straight from the team. Or at least I do.

[ORS]

Just from what I read. You know what I do?

 

When a team starts talking about my team's prospects, I go to THEIR local papers and see what they say about the prospects. Why? The Yankees overhype their prospects to no end. I want to see what the other team thinks.

 

Try it some time. When I go to Toronto's local papers, and they were saying that Montero had to be in the deal, then you know what? I start thinking maybe this Montero kid is pretty good.

 

Try that instead of believing what your FO tells you what to think.

Gom, how about this. How about instead of extrapolating a nonsensical idea from dimwitted writers (here you go again believing what somebody else wrote, shame, shame), you actually follow the minor leagues? How about that? That's what I do.

 

I couldn't tell you the first thing about what the FO thinks about the Sox prospects, because I don't care. Quit with the ridiculous strawmen. You are a broken record. You post the same 5 accusations 5 times a day, and none of them are accurate. My 3 y/o has more sense.

[suns]

Almost every team has made a move, when is manny acta and the Guardians gonna make a move?

[Gom]

Gom, how about this. How about instead of extrapolating a nonsensical idea from dimwitted writers (here you go again believing what somebody else wrote, shame, shame), you actually follow the minor leagues? How about that? That's what I do.

 

I couldn't tell you the first thing about what the FO thinks about the Sox prospects, because I don't care. Quit with the ridiculous strawmen. You are a broken record. You post the same 5 accusations 5 times a day, and none of them are accurate. My 3 y/o has more sense.

Because it's all hype. How do you follow the minors? Do you actually go see them play?

 

You do nothing more than I do. You read what others tell you. You just believe the hype more than I do. One principle of trading. Five pennies rarely equal a nickel. Think about that for a minute.

[ORS]

Wrong. I follow the league. I check minor league box scores every day to every other day. I check to see how players across all the leagues are performing. I pay attention to their ages in their leagues to see if they where they should be or if they are older guys playing against younger competition. If I'm really interested in a player, I'll see what one of the scouting sites has to say.

 

I read next to nothing from regular media or any teams' FO. The first is usually woefully ignorant, and the second has an agenda.

[Gom]

Wrong. I follow the league. I check minor league box scores every day to every other day. I check to see how players across all the leagues are performing. I pay attention to their ages in their leagues to see if they where they should be or if they are older guys playing against younger competition. If I'm really interested in a player, I'll see what one of the scouting sites has to say.

 

I read next to nothing from regular media or any teams' FO. The first is usually woefully ignorant, and the second has an agenda.

 

Fair enough then. So what do you think of the proposal listed here, the five players for Adrian Gonzalez? Chime in, dude.

[BoSox21]

lol, I can't wait to see this board flip when Bay signs with the Yankees within a week

[riverside sluggers]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/red-sox-take-aim-at-adrian-gonzalez

 

Sox are working hard on obtaining Adrian Gonzalez, but arent close on a deal and not likely to happen. The Padres want both Buchholz and Ellsbury in the deal, but the Sox dont want to include both in the deal. Casey Kelly is untouchable according to this article

 

Towards the end it says if the Sox are unable to get Gonzo or sign Beltre... they will go with a platoon at 1st base of V-Mart/Kotchman. If V-Mart is in a platoon at 1st, that means more playing time for Varitek. Yuck

[Dipre]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/red-sox-take-aim-at-adrian-gonzalez

 

Sox are working hard on obtaining Adrian Gonzalez, but arent close on a deal and not likely to happen. The Padres want both Buchholz and Ellsbury in the deal, but the Sox dont want to include both in the deal. Casey Kelly is untouchable according to this article

 

Towards the end it says if the Sox are unable to get Gonzo or sign Beltre... they will go with a platoon at 1st base of V-Mart/Kotchman. If V-Mart is in a platoon at 1st, that means more playing time for Varitek. Yuck

 

Theo has to come to terms with the fact that, in order to get Gonzales, either Ellsbury or Westmoreland is going to have to be moved. Get it done Theo!

[Dojji]

And definitely let it be Westmoreland. He's more exciting, but I won't be confident in RWML's abilities until he has a healthy season. Besides, Ellsbury's already present and producing and we have Raymond Fuentes to be our exciting CF of the future..

[Teddyballgame10]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/red-sox-take-aim-at-adrian-gonzalez

 

Sox are working hard on obtaining Adrian Gonzalez, but arent close on a deal and not likely to happen. The Padres want both Buchholz and Ellsbury in the deal, but the Sox dont want to include both in the deal. Casey Kelly is untouchable according to this article

 

Towards the end it says if the Sox are unable to get Gonzo or sign Beltre... they will go with a platoon at 1st base of V-Mart/Kotchman. If V-Mart is in a platoon at 1st, that means more playing time for Varitek. Yuck

 

Who else do we have that can play 3rd if we dont get Gonzo or Beltre? I wouldn't give up Buch or Ellsbury to get Gonzo. I'd give up Kelly but considering how bad the Padres want him and how reluctant the Sox are to give him up there must be something special. I've stated my opinion on this before though.

[Dojji]

Who else do we have that can play 3rd if we dont get Gonzo or Beltre?

 

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/youkilis0615.jpg

 

http://swamigp.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/6c1e0d82-e848-422f-b933-5eeb0efb7197.jpg?w=500&h=379

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3280/2697382348_323e751aa2.jpg

[riverside sluggers]

There are better options than to just hand starts to Casey Kotchman. Im surprised Adam LaRoche isnt popping up in any rumors. I wouldnt mind the Sox bringing him back if they cant get Gonzo or sign Beltre