Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dipre]

I get what you guys are saying about getting over Tex' date=' I dont think that is what he is getting at though- I think 700's point is that if the Sox weren't ready to pull the trigger on that deal, they wont pull the trigger on an A-Gon deal because it will end up costing them more over those years than the Tex deal in opportunity costs, salaries to replace what would be prospect players, and re-filling the prospect cabinet.[/quote']

 

But remember the Sox have been in negotiations for A-Gon since before the trade deadline, and he's a player Theo covets. So if there's someone they're going to sell half the farm for, it's him.

[a700hitter]

But Tex is a Yankee.

 

It's done, over, the past. So let it go.

It's got nothing to do with letting it go. It has to do with comparing the performance of the Yankee FO to the performance of ours. It has to do with evaluating a philosophy of not going after the the big FA and opting to go the trade route. IMO, getting a top player through a trade is more costly.

[BoSox21]

I get what you guys are saying about getting over Tex' date=' I dont think that is what he is getting at though- I think 700's point is that if the Sox weren't ready to pull the trigger on that deal, they wont pull the trigger on an A-Gon deal because it will end up costing them more over those years than the Tex deal in opportunity costs, salaries to replace what would be prospect players, and re-filling the prospect cabinet.[/quote']

 

But if the Sox feel they made mistakes in the way they handled the Tex stuff, they may feel they can make up for some of those mistakes by pulling the trigger on a Gonzo deal

[Paradisecity]

In my opinion, if they can pull the trigger on the AGon deal without losing Bucholz (which I think is very possible, since the Padres should be focused on 2011-2012 talent since they will do nothing next year) then I will consider the off-season a success despite all the other questions left unanswered. I dont care if it is Bay, Holliday, or Figgins in left field.

[BSN07]

Billy Wagner is a Type A free agent, so teams will have to surrender a draft pick to sign him if the Red Sox offer arbitration, as expected.

 

His Type A status is nice for the picks. But I'm afraid he signs with someone like the Nationals, who's 1st round pick is protected.

[BoSox21]

Why the hell would the Nats sign Wagner? He's got one, MAYBE two years left in him. Plus I'd think he wouldn't spend all that time and effort rehabbing from TJ to end his career as a damn National.

[Paradisecity]

Why the hell would the Nats sign Wagner? He's got one' date=' MAYBE two years left in him. Plus I'd think he wouldn't spend all that time and effort rehabbing from TJ to end his career as a damn National.[/quote']

 

...with an opportunity to save 20 games.

[BSN07]

Why the hell would the Nats sign Wagner? He's got one' date=' MAYBE two years left in him. Plus I'd think he wouldn't spend all that time and effort rehabbing from TJ to end his career as a damn National.[/quote']

 

1. He can be the Closer in a low pressure situation.

2. The Nats are looking for veteran help and leadership.

3. The Nats should get him about 20-30 save opportunity's, which is good but not too many coming off of TJ.

 

 

 

I can see the Astros really being in on him as well.

[Wells]

The Nats probably are in more need of draft picks.. that's a good reason not to sign IMO

[BSN07]

The Nats probably are in more need of draft picks.. that's a good reason not to sign IMO

 

 

 

Their 1st rounder is protected. Even a better reason to make a splash. They can spend $ while not having to worry about compromising the #1 pick next year.

[BoSox21]

Jon Heyman says the feeling among baseball execs is that Bay will stay in Boston. Although I suspect he could be saying that to help drive up the price for Holliday, whose agent is Heyman's friend Scott Boras

[BSN07]

Jon Heyman says the feeling among baseball execs is that Bay will stay in Boston. Although I suspect he could be saying that to help drive up the price for Holliday' date=' whose agent is Heyman's friend Scott Boras[/quote']

 

I really see Bay in SF or Seattle because I think they will give him 5 years and the Sox won't.

[Paradisecity]

I really see Bay in SF or Seattle because I think they will give him 5 years and the Sox won't.

 

Olney just wrote how Bay to Seattle makes no sense:

 

Jason Bay is continually being tied, through media speculation, to the Seattle Mariners. This match is very, very unlikely to happen, because the Mariners have first-round pick Dustin Ackley developing in the Arizona Fall League, and at some point next season, Seattle expects to field an outfield of Ichiro Suzuki, Franklin Gutierrez and Ackley. The same can be said with Hideki Matsui: If the Mariners re-sign Ken Griffey Jr., there really will be no place for Matsui on the Mariners. It looks as if Griffey will return for the 2010 season, and Larry Stone asks: Why not?

[BSN07]

Olney just wrote how Bay to Seattle makes no sense:

 

Jason Bay is continually being tied, through media speculation, to the Seattle Mariners. This match is very, very unlikely to happen, because the Mariners have first-round pick Dustin Ackley developing in the Arizona Fall League, and at some point next season, Seattle expects to field an outfield of Ichiro Suzuki, Franklin Gutierrez and Ackley. The same can be said with Hideki Matsui: If the Mariners re-sign Ken Griffey Jr., there really will be no place for Matsui on the Mariners. It looks as if Griffey will return for the 2010 season, and Larry Stone asks: Why not?

 

Or Griffey could retire, they sign Bay, leave Ackley in the minors next year, then the following season move Bay to DH and Ackley to LF.

[Paradisecity]

...in the meantime offering him a 5 year deal to be a DH for 4...

 

Seems like an unlikely scenario to me.

[BSN07]

...in the meantime offering him a 5 year deal to be a DH for 4...

 

Seems like an unlikely scenario to me.

 

Why not when your OF will be filled with low power speed players? That lineup has got to get some power production from somewhere. The DH spot is a great place to start. And Bay would fit in nicely IMO.

[Paradisecity]

You don't offer a max deal to someone when you plan on having them play 80% of their contract out in a DH role (especially when they are going to receive OF dollars). It lends your team zero flexibility. David Ortiz in his current status is an excellent example, and he was a much better hitter when going into his contract (which was only for 4 years at a lower rate than Bay will be asking). Further, the Mariners have a hole at 3B that needs filling.

 

It doesn't make sense.

[BSN07]

You don't offer a max deal to someone when you plan on having them play 80% of their contract out in a DH role (especially when they are going to receive OF dollars). It lends your team zero flexibility. David Ortiz in his current status is an excellent example, and he was a much better hitter when going into his contract (which was only for 4 years at a lower rate than Bay will be asking). Further, the Mariners have a hole at 3B that needs filling.

 

It doesn't make sense.

 

Ok signing him to a 5 year deal to be a DH may not be the best move. But there is no guarantee when Ackley will be ready. I know he's good but would it really be out of the realm of possibilities he could be a couple season away? If Bay plays 2 years in LF, then finishes out the final 3 as DH it wouldn't be that bad of a signing. Just sayin. There have been much worse deals that made even worse sense.

[Paradisecity]

Ok signing him to a 5 year deal to be a DH may not be the best move. But there is no guarantee when Ackley will be ready. I know he's good but would it really be out of the realm of possibilities he could be a couple season away? If Bay plays 2 years in LF' date=' then finishes out the final 3 as DH it wouldn't be that bad of a signing. Just sayin. There have been much worse deals that made even worse sense.[/quote']

 

There have been worse deals, but the point is that the lack of fit for Bay makes his signing in Seattle unlikely.

[BSN07]

There have been worse deals' date=' but the point is that the lack of fit for Bay makes his signing in Seattle unlikely.[/quote']

 

Honestly I see BOS, NYM, NYY, ATL, St. Louis, SF, Seattle, Toronto to all have interest in Bay to be honest. There's really no telling where he will end up.

 

It will be interesting to see who signs first out of Bay/Holliday. Bay could really capitalize on letting Holliday sign first, then have everyone who missed out on Holliday come full force after him. But that could be risky, knowing how Boras likes to drag things out.

[example1]

But remember the Sox have been in negotiations for A-Gon since before the trade deadline' date=' and he's a player Theo covets. So if there's someone they're going to sell half the farm for, it's him.[/quote']

 

As far as I've heard, Theo wanted Gonzalez so he could trade him to Seattle to get Felix. Otherwise the only thing I've really heard about him is that Jed Hoyer indicated that he didn't think the Sox were going to pursue him strongly when he took over in SD.

 

Theo may covet him, but if he was willing to deal him for Felix then he REALLY covets Felix.

[Dipre]

As far as I've heard, Theo wanted Gonzalez so he could trade him to Seattle to get Felix. Otherwise the only thing I've really heard about him is that Jed Hoyer indicated that he didn't think the Sox were going to pursue him strongly when he took over in SD.

 

Theo may covet him, but if he was willing to deal him for Felix then he REALLY covets Felix.

 

This is not accurate.

 

He tried to trade for Gonzales alone but couldn't pull it of. Then he tried to get Felix in a three-team deal using Gonzales in it.

[bsox0407]

This is not accurate.

 

He tried to trade for Gonzales alone but couldn't pull it of. Then he tried to get Felix in a three-team deal using Gonzales in it.

 

What if the Sox add newly acquired Hermida put in the mix.

[BSN07]

As far as I've heard, Theo wanted Gonzalez so he could trade him to Seattle to get Felix. Otherwise the only thing I've really heard about him is that Jed Hoyer indicated that he didn't think the Sox were going to pursue him strongly when he took over in SD.

 

Theo may covet him, but if he was willing to deal him for Felix then he REALLY covets Felix.

 

This is what I thought as well.

 

Another 3 team deal I have seen in some conversations on other sites is, between Philly, Seattle and Boston(this is just discussions amongst people so don't flip out)

 

Philly would send Happ/ Drabek + to Boston for Beckett. Then Boston sends those 2 plus Bowden, Anderson, Reddick(maybe 1 more lower level guy) to Seattle for Felix.

 

You have to think Beckett could command as much as Halladay in a trade. And he's 3M cheaper this season. He might be the better bet over the next 3-4 years compared to Halladay(debatable I know), just sayin, it isn't crazy to think this may be possible. And how it could work out for all teams involved.

 

Philly gets another front line SP. Boston gets their coveted Ace to replace Beckett. And Seattle gets an ass load of talent for Felix.

[Dipre]

You guys "thought" would be correct.

 

Hell, he tried to acquire him from Texas before he was sent to SD.

[BSN07]

You guys "thought" would be correct.

 

Hell, he tried to acquire him from Texas before he was sent to SD.

 

Did they? You'll have to forgive my spotty memory;)

[example1]

You guys "thought" would be correct.

 

Hell, he tried to acquire him from Texas before he was sent to SD.

 

I believe you, but I would like to see some links, especially about Theo trying to get him from SD without trying to get Felix. (i.e., Theo prefering to just get Gonzo but 'settling' to get Gonzo and trade him to Seattle).

[a700hitter]

If Theo thinks he can pull off a 3-way deal involving two huge young studs like Gonzalez and Felix, he's going to find himself in a big circle jerk getting neither of them, and if he's not careful and it drags on too long, he could miss out on Halladay, Lackey and Holliday.

[Dipre]

I believe you' date=' but I would like to see some links, especially about Theo trying to get him from SD without trying to get Felix. (i.e., Theo prefering to just get Gonzo but 'settling' to get Gonzo and trade him to Seattle).[/quote']

 

I posted a lot of those links before. You can look them up in my previous posts.

[example1]

I posted a lot of those links before. You can look them up in my previous posts.

 

I'm assuming you posted them around the trade deadline then?