Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[BSN07]

Why not trade him now? Looking at their roster' date=' they know they will suck. I just don't see how his price will come down after the season starts.[/quote']

 

If they traded AG right now, they would probably lose what season tickets holders they have. They keep him around long for everyone to re-up for the season and to sell tickets early on in the season. But once the shine has worn off and attendance levels off, they will probably make him available again. And probably fetch a Tex type package.

 

Seems to be a good reason not to trade him right now IMO

oh brother' date=' dipre's girlfriend is here.[/quote']

 

:wtf: really? Please check the "Jr High" mentality/jealousy or whatever the f*** it is at the door.

[a700hitter]

A "Tex type package"? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[Dipre]

oh brother' date=' dipre's girlfriend is here.[/quote']

 

Please shut the f*** up and stop being an idiot. I know it's a major proposition, but if you put your heart to it maybe you can pull it off.

[Dipre]

A "Tex type package"? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

The package Atlanta sent to the Rangers for Mark Teixeira, which included Neftali Feliz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Elvis Andrus iirc.

[BSN07]

A "Tex type package"? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Sorry for just being lazy and not elaborating on the deal further

The package Atlanta sent to the Rangers for Mark Teixeira' date=' which included Neftali Feliz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Elvis Andrus iirc.[/quote']

 

Thanks. It was a solid package of young and talented high end talent to say the least.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Braves got robbed. Feliz looks like he's gonna be either a top flight starter or closer and Andrus looked good in yr 1

[a700hitter]

The package Atlanta sent to the Rangers for Mark Teixeira' date=' which included Neftali Feliz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Elvis Andrus iirc.[/quote']Would Gonzalez have more years to wait for Free Agency than Tex did at the time of his trade to Atlanta? If so, it could cost more to get Gonzalez.

[Dipre]

Would Gonzalez have more years to wait for Free Agency than Tex did at the time of his trade to Atlanta? If so' date=' it could cost more to get Gonzalez.[/quote']

 

Same amount of time if Gonzales gets shopped at the TDL. 1 1/2 seasons.

[a700hitter]

Same amount of time if Gonzales gets shopped at the TDL. 1 1/2 seasons.

That's still a pretty hefty package-- 3 major league ready guys, including a SS. It would be nice to have a major league ready SS in the organization.

[Dipre]

That's still a pretty hefty package-- 3 major league ready guys' date=' including a SS. It would be nice to have a major league ready SS in the organization.[/quote']

 

Neither Andrus nor Feliz were nearly Major League ready at the time of the trade, but they had huge projection. The Rangers played it smart and went for quality over quantity. This is why prospect evaluation is important.

[BSN07]

Neither Andrus nor Feliz were nearly Major League ready at the time of the trade' date=' but they had huge projection. The Rangers played it smart and went for quality over quantity. This is why prospect evaluation is important.[/quote']

 

Exactly.

[a700hitter]

Neither Andrus nor Feliz were nearly Major League ready at the time of the trade' date=' but they had huge projection. The Rangers played it smart and went for quality over quantity. This is why prospect evaluation is important.[/quote']Andrus cracked the major league starting lineup at the beginning of 2009 after 1 more year of seasoning. That's pretty close to major league ready. It's closer than any of our Short Stops.

[Dojji]

Other than Lowrie you mean.

[a700hitter]

Other than Lowrie you mean.

Lowrie is more DL ready than major league ready, and he has no trade value because of his physical problems.

[Dipre]

Andrus cracked the major league starting lineup at the beginning of 2009 after 1 more year of seasoning. That's pretty close to major league ready. It's closer than any of our Short Stops.

 

One and a half seasons. That is significant time. And by all standards, a lot of talent evaluators believe he was rushed.

 

And yes, Lowrie is not to be mentioned in the conversation right now.

[Dojji]

Lowrie is more DL ready than major league ready' date=' and he has no trade value because of his physical problems.[/quote']

 

He's not going to be hurt forever.

[Dipre]

He's not going to be hurt forever.

 

Doiji, in the context a700 is talking about, (part of a package for a big bat) Lowrie has little to no vlaue. Furthermore, until he proves he's healthy, there's no reason to keep hyping him.

[Plumpamania]

I got two pages left to read but while at work I don't have time to do one big post so I'll do several little ones..

 

I see that there's a big discrepency with the 2010 team is the luxury tax threshold and Matt Holliday in LF...

 

In 2011 free agents:

 

1B/C Victor Martinez

1B/OF Adam Dunn

1B/3B Jorge Cantu

1B/3B Garrett Atkins

1B Albert Pujols (Team Option)

1B Derek Lee

1B Paul Konerko

1B Carlos Pena

SS Derek Jeter

SS/3B Jhonny Peralta

SS Jose Reyes

3B Aramis Ramirez

OF Carl Crawford

OF Manny Ramirez

OF Jayson Werth

OF Brad Hawpe

OF Jose Guillen

DH David Ortiz

DH Jason Kubel

 

SP Matt Cain (Vesting Option)

SP Jeff Francis (Club Option)

SP Rich Harden (Mutual Option)

SP Hiroki Kuroda

SP Aaron Harang

SP Cliff Lee

SP Brandon Webb

SP Chris Young

MR Matt Capps

MR Brian Fuentes

MR Chad Qualls

MR Mariano Rivera

MR Billy Wagner

MR Rafael Soriano

MR Huston Street

MR Kerry Wood

MR Grant Balfour

MR Jesse Crain

MR J.J. Putz

MR Scot Shields

MR Dan Wheeler

MR Jeremy Affeldt

MR Pedro Feliciano

MR Darren Oliver

 

2012 Free Agents:

SP FELIX HERNANDEZ

[example1]

The larger point is still that Teixeira was traded for Saltalamacchia and two low-level players that few had heard about. Now it is clear that this was a good deal for Texas, but it took some forethought on Texas's part to take those low level players.

 

This is why the whole "MLB Ready" requirement for any deal toward a big bat is BS in my opinion. Would a team really rather have Josh Reddick (who may be ready now) rather than Ryan Westmoreland (who will be ready in 3 years)? It is a GOOD thing to have low-level high-upside minor leaguers. They actually have a lot of value, even if they are a few years away.

 

Hence my belief that one big thing that will change between now and the TDL is that the 2009 draft class will be available for trade. Renfroe, Younginer, Fuentes, etc., all have quite a bit of value as prospects and will be avialable then, but are not now.

[a700hitter]

The larger point is still that Teixeira was traded for Saltalamacchia and two low-level players that few had heard about. Now it is clear that this was a good deal for Texas, but it took some forethought on Texas's part to take those low level players.

 

This is why the whole "MLB Ready" requirement for any deal toward a big bat is BS in my opinion. Would a team really rather have Josh Reddick (who may be ready now) rather than Ryan Westmoreland (who will be ready in 3 years)? It is a GOOD thing to have low-level high-upside minor leaguers. They actually have a lot of value, even if they are a few years away.

 

Hence my belief that one big thing that will change between now and the TDL is that the 2009 draft class will be available for trade. Renfroe, Younginer, Fuentes, etc., all have quite a bit of value as prospects and will be avialable then, but are not now.

But all of those guys in the Tex deal were in the majors within 1 1/2 years after the trade. They were pretty close to ready whether or not the general public was aware of them.

[example1]

But all of those guys in the Tex deal were in the majors within 1 1/2 years after the trade. They were pretty close to ready whether or not the general public was aware of them.

 

I'm willing to bet that a lot of the Sox prospects would be in MLB if they weren't on the Red Sox. Josh Reddick, Ryan Kalish, Michael Bowden, Dustin Richardson, Tazawa, etc., would all be kicking on the MLB door on a lesser club. Casey Kelly might see MLB time in 2010 if he were with a team with less depth (like San Diego).

 

I just think the relative depth of teams is a determining factor in how long it takes for prospects to get to MLB level.

[Dipre]

But all of those guys in the Tex deal were in the majors within 1 1/2 years after the trade. They were pretty close to ready whether or not the general public was aware of them.

 

The Sox have a lot of "within 1 1/2" talent that might interest other teams, whether the general is aware of them or not.

[Cocos Disciples]

I got two pages left to read but while at work I don't have time to do one big post so I'll do several little ones..

 

I see that there's a big discrepency with the 2010 team is the luxury tax threshold and Matt Holliday in LF...

 

In 2011 free agents:

 

1B/C Victor Martinez

1B/OF Adam Dunn

1B/3B Jorge Cantu

1B/3B Garrett Atkins

1B Albert Pujols (Team Option)

1B Derek Lee

1B Paul Konerko

1B Carlos Pena

SS Derek Jeter

SS/3B Jhonny Peralta

SS Jose Reyes

3B Aramis Ramirez

OF Carl Crawford

OF Manny Ramirez

OF Jayson Werth

OF Brad Hawpe

OF Jose Guillen

DH David Ortiz

DH Jason Kubel

 

SP Matt Cain (Vesting Option)

SP Jeff Francis (Club Option)

SP Rich Harden (Mutual Option)

SP Hiroki Kuroda

SP Aaron Harang

SP Cliff Lee

SP Brandon Webb

SP Chris Young

MR Matt Capps

MR Brian Fuentes

MR Chad Qualls

MR Mariano Rivera

MR Billy Wagner

MR Rafael Soriano

MR Huston Street

MR Kerry Wood

MR Grant Balfour

MR Jesse Crain

MR J.J. Putz

MR Scot Shields

MR Dan Wheeler

MR Jeremy Affeldt

MR Pedro Feliciano

MR Darren Oliver

 

2012 Free Agents:

SP FELIX HERNANDEZ

We should sign Jeter and Rivera.

[Plumpamania]

I wouldn't mind Adam Dunn to play 1B and Brad Hawpe to DH.

[SoxSport]

Maybe they should just stay put, extend Beckett and VMart, and go shopping next year--or this July.That makes sense to me.

 

But they need another solution than Kotchman at 1B. Can't see that. Maybe Lowell at 3B or 1B if they don't deal him (he will have to show something to deal him, and maybe they should keep him if he does); maybe Lowrie can surprise. LaRoche wants way too much money.

[Dipre]

I wouldn't mind Adam Dunn to play 1B and Brad Hawpe to DH.

 

I'd rather Dunn DH.

[Keeper]

Dunn is probably the best candidate to replace Ortiz. I would never start him at 1st.

[Dipre]

Dunn is probably the best candidate to replace Ortiz. I would never start him at 1st.

 

I would never start him anywhere but DH.

 

He sucks at first, and even worse in the OF.

[Tyler Durden]

If you sign Beltre what is the Sox's line up?

 

1. Ellsbury LF
   
2. Pedroia 2B
   
3. Youkilis 1B
   
4. Martinez C
   
5. Ortiz DH
   
6. Beltre 3B
   
7. J.D Drew RF
   
8. Cameron CF
   
9. Scutaro SS

This seem right?

[Keeper]

If you sign Beltre what is the Sox's line up?

 

1. Ellsbury LF
   
2. Pedroia 2B
   
3. Youkilis 1B
   
4. Martinez C
   
5. Ortiz DH
   
6. Beltre 3B
   
7. J.D Drew RF
   
8. Cameron CF
   
9. Scutaro SS

This seem right?

 

I would have Drew bat 5th, Ortiz 6th, and Beltre 7th. Youkilis and Martinez are interchangeable at 3 and 4.