Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dipre]

The problem comes when these sources start cyclically quoting themselves and it becomes difficult to tell where the first one came from. For all we know someone's misinterpreting speculation as a sourced quote and it sort of went viral.

 

Not if they all agree on exactly the same thing.

 

It's clear San Diego is willing to trade him. It's also clear they want an enormous package for him.

 

If you were a GM on a rebuilding team, wouldn't you ask for Casey Kelly/Ryan Westmoreland as centerpieces for any deal?

 

And if you're working on a small-market team, would you target cost-controlled talent or near-arbitration talent?

[Spudboy]

http://www.nesn.com/2009/12/padres-gm-jed-hoyer-talks-bostons-chances-of-landing-adrian-gonzalez.html

 

Dated December 12.

 

Never saw that.

[Dojji]

I agree that the type of players you want are guys like that. The problem is that those aren't the only guys we have who you could justify and A-Gonz trade for. At least a few of the of the Weiland-Reddick-Kalish-Anderson-Rizzo-Expo-Bowden-Bard grouping have to be somewhat tempting.

[Dipre]

I agree that the type of players you want are guys like that. The problem is that those aren't the only guys we have who you could justify and A-Gonz trade for. At least a few of the of the Weiland-Reddick-Kalish-Anderson-Rizzo-Expo-Bowden-Bard grouping have to be somewhat tempting.

 

But the main targets are Buch, West/Kelly. all sources agree with that, because it's the logical way to look at it.

[Dojji]

I agree that it is logical. I disagree that it's the logical way to look at it, which implies an unjustified exclusivity.

[Dipre]

I agree that it is logical. I disagree that it's the logical way to look at it' date=' [/i']which implies an unjustified exclusivity.

 

Then i challenge you to find me a logical scenario in which, in the context of this discussion, the Padres (knowing both Hoyer and McLeod both worked here) don't ask for what they know is the best talent in the Red Sox system.

[Spudboy]

I agree that it is logical. I disagree that it's the logical way to look at it' date=' [/i']which implies an unjustified exclusivity.

 

:dunno:

 

Please explain what you mean here. It's not clear at all.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, so that link said nothing of who he'd be looking for

[Dipre]

Yeah' date=' so that link said nothing of who he'd be looking for[/quote']

 

What about the link i posted?

 

Do you want a couple more?

 

Rosenthal, Morosi, Olney?

 

They all say the same thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont care what Rosenthal, Morosi and Olney say. You said that Hoyer said it. I want to see the link or the sound bite

[Dipre]

I dont care what Rosenthal' date=' Morosi and Olney say. You said that Hoyer said it. I want to see the link or the sound bite[/quote']

 

You can look it up for yourself.

 

As i stated before, i've posted the link over 6 times in response to the exact argument you're making now.

 

You can dig it yourself.

[diony]

Post it again. I'm interested.

[Dipre]

Regardless of diony's typical trolling attempts, i can see why my poor choice of words caused "confusion" when i said "publicly stated" i should have said "he was quoted as stating".

 

As for the link:

 

Padres ask for Bucholz and Kelly/Westmoreland for A-Gon

 

Hey, don't believe it if you don't want to, or attempt to get off on a poor choice of wording, but the fact is, i'll believe my news sources everyday over anyone else.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is Cafardo's opinion vs questionable inside source. Hoyer never said this.

[Dipre]

This is Cafardo's opinion vs questionable inside source. Hoyer never said this.

 

Who do i believe?

 

Multiple sources who said this repeatedly? or Jacko and his Red Sox dream crushing attempts?

 

Hmmmmm..........

[jacksonianmarch]

I would wait until you hear it from a more credible source. The truth is, until you hear it from the horses mouth, you dont actually know. Remember the rampant speculation over the Santana negotiation? Finally Cash comes out with the real s*** after the fact.

[Dipre]

I would wait until you hear it from a more credible source. The truth is' date=' until you hear it from the horses mouth, you dont actually know. Remember the rampant speculation over the Santana negotiation? Finally Cash comes out with the real s*** after the fact.[/quote']

 

Again, i'll believe multiple sources over you any day of the week, considering your typical bias tendencies. Make a bed, then lie in it.

[jacksonianmarch]

When it comes to trade offers, these sources are about as reliable as you and I.

[example1]

But the main targets are Buch' date=' West/Kelly. all sources agree with that, because it's the logical way to look at it.[/quote']

 

I think one logical way to look at it is that because of Hoyer's unique relationship with and knowledge about the Red Sox, he will be confident to take risks that other GMs would be less confident with. He would have the chance to put his stamp on the franchise, for better or worse, with guys he knows well and has personally drafted.

[Dipre]

I think one logical way to look at it is that because of Hoyer's unique relationship with and knowledge about the Red Sox' date=' he will be confident to take risks that other GMs would be less confident with. He would have the chance to put his stamp on the franchise, for better or worse, with guys he knows well and has personally drafted.[/quote']

 

Question:

 

Under this scenario, do you believe Buch-West/Kelly would not be the main targets as well?

[Dojji]

Question:

 

Under this scenario, do you believe Buch-West/Kelly would not be the main targets as well?

 

Main targets =/= sole targets.

[Dipre]

Main targets =/= sole targets.

 

Doiji, i never said once they'd be the sole targets, in fact, my original statement was "Clay/Kelly/West +"

[Dojji]

I have no doubt that there's at least a few combinations of + that would take Kelly or Westmoreland out.

[Dipre]

I have no doubt that there's at least a few combinations of + that would take Kelly or Westmoreland out.

 

I think that if there were, A-Gon would be a happy man and would i. This one's just opinion, though, but i don't really buy it.

 

I'll challenge you to present me with one and i'll give you an honest opinion.

[example1]

Question:

 

Under this scenario, do you believe Buch-West/Kelly would not be the main targets as well?

 

I think the deal would meet both teams' needs. I'm sure Kelly or Westmoreland would be demanded, and one would probably end up going. I'm pretty skeptical that Buchholz + any of them or Ellsbury + any of them is realistic though.

 

My response wasn't so much toward you (you have a reasonable view of this stuff) but toward those who would happily package Ellsbury and Buchholz, or Buchholz and Kelly +, to get Adrian Gonzalez.

[neilpatrickharris]

I really see Buchholz as a major holdup here. I think he's probably on the same level as Lester in terms of willingness to trade (ie he is not going anywhere). For every big name that has come up in the last three years, Buchholz has been the obvious target for any team and Theo has never budged. Definitely don't see him budging after the dominance Clay had to end last season when he really started putting it all together.

 

At the same time, while Kelly and Westmoreland are both top 25 prospects in baseball, the fact that neither has passed A+ will probably limit their abilities to be a centerpiece for Gonzalez at this point. I could really see both players value skyrocketing with success in the upper levels this season, so perhaps a mid-season trade is more realistic.

[Dipre]

I really see Buchholz as a major holdup here. I think he's probably on the same level as Lester in terms of willingness to trade (ie he is not going anywhere). For every big name that has come up in the last three years' date=' [b']Buchholz has been the obvious target for any team and Theo has never budged.[/b] Definitely don't see him budging after the dominance Clay had to end last season when he really started putting it all together.

 

At the same time, while Kelly and Westmoreland are both top 25 prospects in baseball, the fact that neither has passed A+ will probably limit their abilities to be a centerpiece for Gonzalez at this point. I could really see both players value skyrocketing with success in the upper levels this season, so perhaps a mid-season trade is more realistic.

 

Except for Halladay.

[neilpatrickharris]

Except for Halladay.

 

Key difference being that after the deadline was when Buchholz had his run of dominance

[Dipre]

Key difference being that after the deadline was when Buchholz had his run of dominance

 

He was still offered for Halladay, which was the point for the post.

[neilpatrickharris]

Not completely. Point was that Theo hasn't budged on a Buchholz deal yet and given his run to end the season it seems completely improbable.