Damage control....How can the Sox move foward this offseason?

[MNSoxChief102]

I honestly do not think that is plausible. Whatever.

 

Fair enough man. We can agree to disagree. In any case, it's irrelevant as far as the Sox are concerned. I doubt they'll be signing any of the above.

[JimEdHOF2009]

My take on this is Henry and Co. went down to Texas to sign Teixeira. Boras told them to make their best offer and also informed them the Yankees would have the chance to match or beat their offer. Henry realizes that he cannot compete with the Yankees. The Yankees would have gone to $200 mill plus to secure Tex and Henry was not willing to go there....nor should he have. They were willing to trade Lowell in the event that they landed Tex but I feel they made the correct choice in not getting into a bidding war they could not win---not to mention they have a kid in Lars Anderson who may be ready to start next year or at least start when Lowell's contract is up. Lester and Youkilis should be TOP priority. I expect them to be locked up before sping training....Sure I was disappointed the Sox didn't get Tex but this is by no means a death sentence for the 2009 Red Sox.

 

Going forward I have amended my wish list.

 

1. Ben Sheets. He pitched 180 innings and would have almost reached 200 if not for the forearm strain late in the season.

 

2. Trade for Teagarden, Montero, or Salty. I believe Montero is the most likely given Tex's asking price and the AZ's willingness to rid themselves of the Eric Byrnes contract.

 

3. Sign Juan Cruz and or John Smoltz for bullpen and starting pitching depth.

 

4. Javier Valentin to back up Montero/Tea/Salty in the event Varitek is not resigned.

 

Assuming these moves are made..

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Ortiz

Youkilis

Drew

Bay

Lowell

Lowrie

Montero/salty/Teagarden

 

Beckett/Lester/Dice-K/Sheets/Clay or Wakes

 

Bullpen

 

Paps/Okie/Masterson/MDC/Ramirez/Lopez/Smoltz/Juan Cruz

 

I know there are some if's and buts in there...but IF some semblance of that lineup is rolled out on opening day..There is not a more balanced team in baseball.

[a700hitter]

No news coming out of Yawkey Way. No catcher, no 4th outfielder and most importantly no Starting Pitcher. This is becoming reminiscent of the 2005 off season less the Theo Hissy Fit. They did nothing into January, maybe even February and the Sox had no CFer, no SS and no 4th or 5th starters. Well remember how 2006 turned out.

[Cocos Disciples]

No news coming out of Yawkey Way. No catcher' date=' no 4th outfielder and most importantly no Starting Pitcher. This is becoming reminiscent of the 2005 off season less the Theo Hissy Fit. They did nothing into January, maybe even February and the Sox had no CFer, no SS and no 4th or 5th starters. Well remember how 2006 turned out.[/quote']

 

This point in the 05-06 off-season they had made the Hanley+Anibal for Beckett+Lowell, Mirabelli for Loretta and Renteria for Marte (though none were Theo moves) This off-season has been much less productive.

[mvp 78]

Going forward I have amended my wish list.

 

1. Ben Sheets. He pitched 180 innings and would have almost reached 200 if not for the forearm strain late in the season.

 

I'm still far from sold on Ben Sheets. His lengthy injury history is too tough for me to ignore. Sure, his pitching repertoire rivals Josh Beckett, but I just can't see Sheets ever being labeled a workhorse. Plus, he's never pitched in the AL or in a big market. At 29, you are what you are, and Sheets is more known for his injuries than anything else. I'd be more comfortable with the Sox making a run at Peavy.

 

The Sox definitely need a catcher and without a solid option there, I don't see us making any sort of playoff run.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm not sold on Sheets either. The K/BB rate has gone down a lot, which a category he used to dominate. That and of course the injuries.

[mvp 78]

Flex some of that big money for Sheets and Smoltz and add two veterans to the rotation for one year' date=' two if certain IPs are reached. Sheets put up nearly 200IP last year and Smoltz is still a very good pitcher when healthy. I would feel better knowing that those guys were on the bump every 5th day than dealing with Wakefield, etc.[/quote']

 

Except that neither of the two examples you give would likely be pitching every 5th day considering age and injury history. I think the Sox should run Wakefield out there until he's ready to retire. He's cheap and dependable (two things Smoltz and Sheets aren't).

[example1]

Except that neither of the two examples you give would likely be pitching every 5th day considering age and injury history. I think the Sox should run Wakefield out there until he's ready to retire. He's cheap and dependable (two things Smoltz and Sheets aren't).

 

Smoltz threw over 200 IP in 05, 06 and 07. He's been as durable as they come for a long time. If he's healthy he's a good bet.

 

Sheets is less resiliant, but he threw almost 200ip last year.

 

I think if they're healthy, they will start every 5th day.

 

Wakefield hasn't been completely healthy either.

 

I'm of the camp that believes it isn't worth spending tons of money just for fun, but I think it is likely that they end up with a catcher who isn't super expensive (even if Varitek comes back), and they have a payroll currently of somewhere around (below?) 90m. Why NOT take a risk and sign a Sheets or Smoltz for a year. If they are injured they can join Lugo on the bench and have them come off the books next year.

[a700hitter]

This point in the 05-06 off-season they had made the Hanley+Anibal for Beckett+Lowell' date=' Mirabelli for Loretta and Renteria for Marte (though none were Theo moves) This off-season has been much less productive.[/quote']True. Good point. This year they have done much less.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm all in favor of an incentive-laden deal for Smoltz. Sheets would take a lot more, and a multi year deal. Plus, I doubt either of them replaces Wakefield; he's our #4 right now and should stay in the rotation.

[a700hitter]

I think the Sox should run Wakefield out there until he's ready to retire. He's cheap and dependable (two things Smoltz and Sheets aren't).

I think Wakefield will be with the Sox until he dies from natural causes. I am a fan of Wakefield, the person. He's a stand up guy and very community-minded, but I hate watching him pitch. The game can blow up at any given time. There's no gauging if he has good stuff or bad stuff, because it can drastically change by the next batter. I'll hold my nose if they run him out there as the #5 guy, but as a #4 he is unacceptable. If he is the #4, it will mean that the rotation is sub par.

[a700hitter]

Smoltz threw over 200 IP in 05' date=' 06 and 07. He's been as durable as they come for a long time. If he's healthy he's a good bet.[/quote']He's a great bet if healthy, but who is willing to bet that he's healthy?

[example1]

I'm basically done with Wakefield.

[example1]

He's a great bet if healthy' date=' but who is willing to bet that he's healthy?[/quote']

 

He's a hard worker and has been in great shape for a long, long time. I would put that challenge to Smoltz with an incentive laden deal and bet that he will do everything he can to live up to it.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm basically done with Wakefield.

 

Why? He's one of the best bargains in baseball at 4MM AAV. Sure, he isn't a sexy pitcher but last year he had a 4.13 ERA and a 1.18 WHIP, and he's pretty damn consistent. If you have him as a #5 and avoid him in the playoffs, even better.

[BoSox21]

No news coming out of Yawkey Way. No catcher' date=' no 4th outfielder and most importantly no Starting Pitcher. This is becoming reminiscent of the 2005 off season less the Theo Hissy Fit. They did nothing into January, maybe even February and the Sox had no CFer, no SS and no 4th or 5th starters. Well remember how 2006 turned out.[/quote']

 

This point in the 05-06 off-season they had made the Hanley+Anibal for Beckett+Lowell' date=' Mirabelli for Loretta and Renteria for Marte (though none were Theo moves) This off-season has been much less productive.[/quote']

 

I don't like the fact that the FO has stood pat cause I think the quality of the division has gone up dramatically since last off-season but in defense of the FO, there was a lot more wrong with the 2005 team than the 2008 team

[mvp 78]

Smoltz threw over 200 IP in 05, 06 and 07. He's been as durable as they come for a long time. If he's healthy he's a good bet.

 

Sheets is less resiliant, but he threw almost 200ip last year.

 

I think if they're healthy, they will start every 5th day.

 

If they are injured they can join Lugo on the bench and have them come off the books next year.

 

I don't know why the Sox could expect much out of a 40+ year old pitcher who had season ending shoulder surgery the year before. There's too many "ifs" for him to be a good bet.

 

Also, there's no way that Sheets would sign a one year deal. It's not going to happen.

[BoSox21]

I think Wakefield will be with the Sox until he dies from natural causes. I am a fan of Wakefield' date=' the person. He's a stand up guy and very community-minded, but I hate watching him pitch. The game can blow up at any given time. There's no gauging if he has good stuff or bad stuff, because it can drastically change by the next batter. I'll hold my nose if they run him out there as the #5 guy, but as a #4 he is unacceptable. If he is the #4, it will mean that the rotation is sub par.[/quote']

 

Agree 100%

 

But at this point, I think the Sox are banking on Buchholz putting it together this season or they're planning on putting Masterson in the rotation, which is a mistake IMO.

 

Knowing this FO, they aren't gonna match the guaranteed money another team will offer a Smoltz or a Penny or a Sheets

[mvp 78]

Why? He's one of the best bargains in baseball at 4MM AAV. Sure' date=' he isn't a sexy pitcher but last year he had a 4.13 ERA and a 1.18 WHIP, and he's pretty damn consistent. If you have him as a #5 and avoid him in the playoffs, even better.[/quote']

 

Unless they are playing in the Metrodome in the playoffs. Then I pitch him as much as possible. His stuff is nasty there.

[a700hitter]

He's a hard worker and has been in great shape for a long' date=' long time. I would put that challenge to Smoltz with an incentive laden deal and bet that he will do everything he can to live up to it.[/quote']But if you lock into Smoltz as your #4 to the exclusion of another deal and he can't make it back, the rotation will be left in a bad place. I'd go after Smoltz with the contingent laden contract if they also go after a dependable pitcher like Lowe or Peavy. If Smoltz is healthy, you'll have a kick ass rotation and if not the rotation will still be pretty good with Wakefield in the #5 hole. Wakefield in the #4 at the start of the season would mean that the rotation will be very thin and we will be seeing the likes Devern Hansack and David Pauley starting games in the first half of the season if there are any injuries. They need to get another dependable pitcher and then roll the dice on Smoltz or Penny. Wake should start the season as the swing man. He'll still get plenty of starts.

[Cocos Disciples]

Unless they are playing in the Metrodome in the playoffs. Then I pitch him as much as possible. His stuff is nasty there.

 

Yes it depends on the matchup.

[a700hitter]

Agree 100%

 

But at this point, I think the Sox are banking on Buchholz putting it together this season or they're planning on putting Masterson in the rotation, which is a mistake IMO.

 

Knowing this FO, they aren't gonna match the guaranteed money another team will offer a Smoltz or a Penny or a Sheets

Bucholz's bad 2008 is a primary reason for not winning the East Division. They stayed with him too long and he got worse and worse. He was bad in Spring Training and deteriorated from there. If they are banking on him holding down a rotation spot, they are willing to wager the entire season on a very questionable bet.

[BoSox21]

Bucholz's bad 2008 is a primary reason for not winning the East Division. They stayed with him too long and he got worse and worse. He was bad in Spring Training and deteriorated from there. If they are banking on him holding down a rotation spot' date=' they are willing to wager the entire season on a very questionable bet.[/quote']

 

Definitely, but I can live with making Wakefield a long reliever and Buchholz coming out of ST as the 5th starter but all of that hinges on whether they can find a way to get a solid starter from outside the organization, whether it be through trade or if they can get Smoltz/Penny/Sheets

[mvp 78]

In all honesty, I'd be much more excited for Smoltz and Sheets than Penny. At this point I'd rather have Clay and Wake in the rotation than Brad Penny. Sure, he can grow an awesome beard, but that's about it. Another career ruined by Alissa Milano.

[Dipre]

I think Sheets CAN be had on a 1-year deal, because at the end of it, he'd be 30, and if he builds back his value, would be in for one massive payday.

 

The only problem is, you'd have to blow him away with the one-year offer.....probably 10-12 mill base and an ass-load of incentives.

[Cocos Disciples]

I think Sheets CAN be had on a 1-year deal, because at the end of it, he'd be 30, and if he builds back his value, would be in for one massive payday.

 

The only problem is, you'd have to blow him away with the one-year offer.....probably 10-12 mill base and an ass-load of incentives.

 

He was rumored to be getting 2x15, not sure if 1x10 is blowing him away.

[Dipre]

He was rumored to be getting 2x15' date=' not sure if 1x10 is blowing him away.[/quote']

 

Again, it'd have to be incentives to get him to at least 17+.

 

So i suppose it WOULD be blowing him away, and besides, he was rumored, but there has been nothing of substance yet.

[diony]

I think Sheets CAN be had on a 1-year deal, because at the end of it, he'd be 30, and if he builds back his value, would be in for one massive payday.

 

The only problem is, you'd have to blow him away with the one-year offer.....probably 10-12 mill base and an ass-load of incentives.

 

If he'd be looking for a 1-year deal he would just accepted arbitration to earn around $14 million with the Brewers. The guy wants at least 2 years to prove himself.

 

Why you're going to give a 1st round pick just to get 1 year of Sheets? If you gonna lose a pick then make it count.

[Cocos Disciples]

Well there's this article from a couple weeks ago that says the Yankees were preparing to make Sheets a 2x13 offer (before signing CC and A.J.):

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/12/08/2008-12-08_yankees_brewin_up_multiyear_offer_for_fr-2.html

 

And then there's this article from last week that says the Yankees do not want anything to do with Sheets:

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/12/3_up_sheets_tei.html

 

I think Sheets would want more than a 10MM base salary with incentives. I think the 2x13 referenced in the first article is much more realistic, with 2-4MM in incentives. But that's just IMO.

[Dipre]

If he'd be looking for a 1-year deal he would just accepted arbitration to earn around $14 million with the Brewers. The guy wants at least 2 years to prove himself.

 

Why you're going to give a 1st round pick just to get 1 year of Sheets? If you gonna lose a pick then make it count.

 

Touche, i forgot about Sheets' Type-A Free Agent status.