Damage control....How can the Sox move foward this offseason?

[TheKilo]

Color me extremely disappointed. We didn't do anything last season, which was fine, there wasn't really any huge needs to fill or can't-miss opportunities. But this season we shed a ton of salary and with a FA class that comes along maybe once or twice in a decade it seemed like the Sox would make a move. A player of Teixiera's value rarely hits the FA market and considering he would have been a perfect fit, getting outbid by 10mil (spread out over 10 years) is quite frankly, ridiculous.

 

Now if the Sox go ahead and spend some money on Sheets or make a trade for Peavy then I'll change tunes but right now it looks like the tens of millions of dollars we shed are just going to be pocketed...

 

Can't believe I missed this post earlier. Captures my feelings exactly.

[example1]

Can't believe I missed this post earlier. Captures my feelings exactly.

 

To me this is a pretty top heavy FA class, and the top three are probably Teixeira, CC and K-Rod. The later two the Sox (and frankly few on this board) had interest in. We all know Teixeira was available, and the Sox loved him. I'm frustrated that they appear to have been outbid, but I can't help but cringe a bit when I hear "the Yankees offered 180, and Boras told them they needed to add 10m. He called back 20 minutes later and said Teixeira would take it." And then we find out Teixeira wanted to play for the Yankees the whole time and, it appears, was willing to let Boras back off the negotiation train as soon as the Yankees made a legitimate bid. I'm confident that if the Sox bid 180 Boras would say "go 10m higher" and he wouldn't call back 20 minutes later. We can guess all we want, but it feels to me like a situation where Teixeira ultimately got what he wanted. The money was an important factor, but so was where he ended up and playing in Boston wasn't some long held dream that he had had like playing in NY was.

 

That said, I don't see a whole lot of places for the Sox to have gone with their supposed huge piles of newly found money. We aren't going to bid on Adam Dunn, we weren't going to go to the mat for Burnett the way the Yankees did and we weren't going to give CC a Teixeira sized deal. To me it seemed like an all or nothing situation, with all being a luxary the Sox can afford to pass up. We may not like the results, but we are still arguing whether or not they are the BEST team in the East, or merely one of the contenders.

 

I see your point of view Kilo, but I don't see an obvious place to spend money so I don't fault them for not being able to spend it yet. Yes, working out a deal for Youk or Bay or Lester would be wise, but we don't know where those negotiations are at or what the intentions of those players are. Perhaps they all saw Teixeira sign massive deals and said "no way am I signing with the Sox for less than I could get on the market!"

 

Do you think they should trade someone like Jason Bay to get a needed piece (say, a catcher or SP), then sign Adam Dunn or someone like that? Manny's sure isn't coming to Boston, and they were never interested in K-Rod. Aside from trading someone they have now that they could replace with a FA, I don't see where people expect the money to come from.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox were absolutely in the Burnett sweeps. As a matter of fact, Burnett was #2 on the sox offseason wish list and most beat writers acknowledged it. Why not? Have Burnett at the 4 where he would tag team with the top 3 and be a ridiculous top 4 or he could be on the DL for half the yr and the sox top 3 could get by without him. It was a solid idea. The Yankees were just willing to get the fans what they wanted a bit more than the sox were. The fact is, a pitching FA market like this one doesnt come around very often. And when aces like CC, Burnett and to some degree, Sheets hit the market, along with bulldogs like Pettitte and Lowe and potential impact pitchers like Dempster and Perez hit the market, the sox get the equivalent of Bartolo Colon while still injured for cheap money. When they have a shot at Abreu, Dunn, Teixeira, Giambi, et al when speaking about possible impact bats, they go out and sign Josh Bard. I find it interesting that a sox fan could sit back and say that this offseason wasnt just a total disaster. And it has nothing to do with the fact that the sox are still gonna be good this upcoming yr. The fact is, there were plenty of upgrades on the market, they had TONS of money coming off the books and they failed to nab any of them.

[MANNYHOF24]

The sox were absolutely in the Burnett sweeps. As a matter of fact' date=' Burnett was #2 on the sox offseason wish list and most beat writers acknowledged it. Why not? Have Burnett at the 4 where he would tag team with the top 3 and be a ridiculous top 4 or he could be on the DL for half the yr and the sox top 3 could get by without him. It was a solid idea. The Yankees were just willing to get the fans what they wanted a bit more than the sox were. The fact is, a pitching FA market like this one doesnt come around very often. And when aces like CC, Burnett and to some degree, Sheets hit the market, along with bulldogs like Pettitte and Lowe and potential impact pitchers like Dempster and Perez hit the market, the sox get the equivalent of Bartolo Colon while still injured for cheap money. When they have a shot at Abreu, Dunn, Teixeira, Giambi, et al when speaking about possible impact bats, they go out and sign Josh Bard. I find it interesting that a sox fan could sit back and say that this offseason wasnt just a total disaster. And it has nothing to do with the fact that the sox are still gonna be good this upcoming yr. The fact is, there were plenty of upgrades on the market, they had TONS of money coming off the books and they failed to nab any of them.[/quote']

 

Bingo.

[Cocos Disciples]

When they have a shot at Abreu' date=' Dunn, Teixeira, Giambi, et al when speaking about possible impact bats, they go out and sign Josh Bard. [/quote']

 

Bard was to fill the backup catcher hole, not the impact bat hole. As far as we know, the only person on that list they were interested in was Tex. The others make no sense.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dunn would be an upgrade. Move him to 1b and youks to 3b. Dunn in that lineup would be dangerous

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't think it's fair to put him in the same sentence as Tex, a guy who was priority #1 for the FO and they failed to get him. They may have talked about Dunn but as far as we know, there has been no interest.

[jacksonianmarch]

I see. I can understand the defensive downside (Dunn is a f***ing hack at 1b) but from a sheer offensive production standpoint, Dunn is about as consistent as they come.

 

Starting in 04, he has hit 40+ homers in all 5 yrs

He's had 90+ RBI in all 5 yrs

He's had a .380+OBP in 4 of those 5 yrs (.365 in the other)

He's had a .500+ SLG in 4 of those 5 yrs (.490 in the other)

He's had an OPS of .899 or higher in 4 of those 5 yrs (.855 in the other)

 

So he has been an elite offensive force over the last 5 yrs. Chalk up 40 homers, nearly 100RBI and a .900+OPS like clockwork. Plus, he just turned 29, so he'd be around for awhile.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm not putting Dunn down by any means, I love the guy and would be pleased if we got him. I just don't think he is a target right now.

[example1]

The sox were absolutely in the Burnett sweeps. As a matter of fact' date=' Burnett was #2 on the sox offseason wish list and most beat writers acknowledged it. Why not? Have Burnett at the 4 where he would tag team with the top 3 and be a ridiculous top 4 or he could be on the DL for half the yr and the sox top 3 could get by without him. It was a solid idea. The Yankees were just willing to get the fans what they wanted a bit more than the sox were. The fact is, a pitching FA market like this one doesnt come around very often. And when aces like CC, Burnett and to some degree, Sheets hit the market, along with bulldogs like Pettitte and Lowe and potential impact pitchers like Dempster and Perez hit the market, the sox get the equivalent of Bartolo Colon while still injured for cheap money. When they have a shot at Abreu, Dunn, Teixeira, Giambi, et al when speaking about possible impact bats, they go out and sign Josh Bard. I find it interesting that a sox fan could sit back and say that this offseason wasnt just a total disaster. And it has nothing to do with the fact that the sox are still gonna be good this upcoming yr. The fact is, there were plenty of upgrades on the market, they had TONS of money coming off the books and they failed to nab any of them.[/quote']

 

 

From what I remember the Sox were intrested in Burnett until they learned he was asking for 16m a year, at which point they said "no thanks". I completely understand why and have no problem with it.

 

A complete disaster of an offseason would be the Sox trading a number of their talented youngsters for a pile of rocks. They still have the youngsters, they still have they money. it isn't a complete disaster IMO.

 

Again, which upgrades? Sox needed help at SS, C and maybe SP. I see no obvious SS, no obvious C and only overpaid SPs. The Yankees set the market by paying guys like Burnett as if they were Pedro and the Sox didn't follow suit. They got crap for signing Drew at 14m a year, and now they're being criticizing for not 'upgrading' to Burnett at more than that?

[example1]

I see. I can understand the defensive downside (Dunn is a f***ing hack at 1b) but from a sheer offensive production standpoint, Dunn is about as consistent as they come.

 

Starting in 04, he has hit 40+ homers in all 5 yrs

He's had 90+ RBI in all 5 yrs

He's had a .380+OBP in 4 of those 5 yrs (.365 in the other)

He's had a .500+ SLG in 4 of those 5 yrs (.490 in the other)

He's had an OPS of .899 or higher in 4 of those 5 yrs (.855 in the other)

 

So he has been an elite offensive force over the last 5 yrs. Chalk up 40 homers, nearly 100RBI and a .900+OPS like clockwork. Plus, he just turned 29, so he'd be around for awhile.

 

Dunn's a good player. I just don't see an easy slot for him with the team as currently constructed. I also wouldn't be shocked to see the Sox show some interest and get creative to put some of these guys on their team.

 

Mostly I'm just sick of Jacksonian's bold pronnouncements about the Sox and the yankees and then listening as they splat in June and July and nobody cares because, well, frankly, who could expect someone to be right in December about what happens in July?

 

I don't care about your claims about a disaster off season. It doesn't seem like one to me. They have money to spend, they have young talent, and they have a team that is younger than the Yankees that is capable of winning 95 games for much less money. I'm just not that concerned about the offseason, aside from the Teixeira loss.

[naptownsoxfan]

Dunn would be an upgrade. Move him to 1b and youks to 3b. Dunn in that lineup would be dangerous

 

Dunn at 1st would be...interesting at best. I love the bat he provides but put any glove on the guy he is a liability. The Sox won't go that route, Dunn is a DH by nature...no room in boston with Papi.

[TheKilo]

Yeah I am not upset with the FO not signing Burnett. I've said it multiple times this offseason I hoped they sign him.

[BSN07]

If the can move Lowell, then slide Youk over to 3B. Dunn could be a way to upgrade the offense. His K's will get old, but oh well.

 

I still like to see Hanley added,

 

CF Hanley

2B Pedroia

DH Papi

1B Dunn

LF Bay

RF Drew

3B Youk

C

SS Lowrie

 

druel.....

[Cocos Disciples]

I would prefer

 

Pedroia

Drew

Hanley

Ortiz

Dunn

Bay

Youk

Lowrie

C

 

But it doesn't matter.

*Drools again*

[schillingouttheks]

Something tells me you won't be able to insert Lowrie into that lineup if Hanley is on the team.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah that's probably true. Good call.

[naptownsoxfan]

IMO Dunn is awesome on offense but this guy sucks with a glove on...I know,I know it is only 1st base but it is not happening.

[BSN07]

Something tells me you won't be able to insert Lowrie into that lineup if Hanley is on the team.

 

If Hanley is in CF, then why not?

[Beckett95]

Lowell, Bucholz, Kalish for Adrian Gonzalez

Lugo, Bowden for Montero, Byrnes

Sign Hairston/Bloomquist, Kotsay

 

pedroia

youk

ortiz

gonzalez

bay

drew

lowrie

bard/montero

ellsbury

 

Byrnes

Hairston

other C

Kotsay

[JimEdHOF2009]

And when aces like CC' date=' Burnett [/b']and to some degree, Sheets hit the market,

 

 

FANBOY alert! Are you really this simple? Don't bother replying, the answer is blatantly obvious judging by the aforementioned post of yours. In what world is or was A.J. Burnett ever an ACE??? And "to some degree" Sheets? Sheets, although oft-injured, puts up better numbers than Burnett when healthy.

 

Get a clue-- Yankee douchebag.

[diony]

I see. I can understand the defensive downside (Dunn is a f***ing hack at 1b) but from a sheer offensive production standpoint, Dunn is about as consistent as they come.

 

Starting in 04, he has hit 40+ homers in all 5 yrs

He's had 90+ RBI in all 5 yrs

He's had a .380+OBP in 4 of those 5 yrs (.365 in the other)

He's had a .500+ SLG in 4 of those 5 yrs (.490 in the other)

He's had an OPS of .899 or higher in 4 of those 5 yrs (.855 in the other)

 

So he has been an elite offensive force over the last 5 yrs. Chalk up 40 homers, nearly 100RBI and a .900+OPS like clockwork. Plus, he just turned 29, so he'd be around for awhile.

 

40+ homers in a sandbox. One of the highest K rates on MLB history, one of the worst defensive players in the majors, yeah that's just what the Sox need.

 

Everyone falls in love with 40 HRs, and a crapload of walks, while ignoring all the stranded and non-advanced base runners, Ks, and poor defense he provides.

[schillingouttheks]

If Hanley is in CF' date=' then why not?[/quote']

 

Because I think by trading for Hanley, you're going to have to give up Lowrie.

[Cocos Disciples]

40+ homers in a sandbox. One of the highest K rates on MLB history, one of the worst defensive players in the majors, yeah that's just what the Sox need.

 

Everyone falls in love with 40 HRs, and a crapload of walks, while ignoring all the stranded and non-advanced base runners, Ks, and poor defense he provides.

 

I hear he clogs the bases and isn't a gamer. And according to JP Ricciardi, he hates baseball.

[naptownsoxfan]

40+ homers in a sandbox. One of the highest K rates on MLB history, one of the worst defensive players in the majors, yeah that's just what the Sox need.

 

Everyone falls in love with 40 HRs, and a crapload of walks, while ignoring all the stranded and non-advanced base runners, Ks, and poor defense he provides.

 

I hate to say it but you are correct. Dunn is not what the Sox need.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Jacksonian March..I think I speak for the entire board...and if I don't, I should be...

 

"Get lost" if you cannot come up with more than your usual hiedously biased Yankee Ballsuckery.

 

I would be shocked if you could actually construct one post remiss of some form of Yankee fellatio.

 

 

 

Jacksonian March sez.."Aces like CC and AJ Burnett!" HHAHAH!

 

I have to get to bed...tomorrow that gem^ becomes my signature!

[TheKilo]

lol if you're expecting Jacko to change now you're gonna be sorely disappointed.

[naptownsoxfan]

Jacksonian March..I think I speak for the entire board...and if I don't, I should be...

 

"Get lost" if you cannot come up with more than your usual hiedously biased Yankee Ballsuckery.

 

I would be shocked if you could actually construct one post remiss of some form of Yankee fellatio.

 

 

 

Jacksonian March sez.."Aces like CC and AJ Burnett!" HHAHAH!

 

I have to get to bed...tomorrow that gem^ becomes my signature!

 

If only it was that easy.

[Dipre]

Lowell, Bucholz, Kalish for Adrian Gonzalez

 

Not happening.

 

40+ homers in a sandbox. One of the highest K rates on MLB history, one of the worst defensive players in the majors, yeah that's just what the Sox need.

 

Everyone falls in love with 40 HRs, and a crapload of walks, while ignoring all the stranded and non-advanced base runners, Ks, and poor defense he provides.

 

Agreed 100%, he couldn't play defense if his mother's life depended on it.

 

Jacksonian March..I think I speak for the entire board...and if I don't, I should be...

 

"Get lost" if you cannot come up with more than your usual hiedously biased Yankee Ballsuckery.

 

I would be shocked if you could actually construct one post remiss of some form of Yankee fellatio.

 

 

 

Jacksonian March sez.."Aces like CC and AJ Burnett!" HHAHAH!

 

I have to get to bed...tomorrow that gem^ becomes my signature!

 

Indeed, he is a douchebag and should be treated accordingly.

[jacksonianmarch]

From what I remember the Sox were intrested in Burnett until they learned he was asking for 16m a year, at which point they said "no thanks". I completely understand why and have no problem with it.

 

A complete disaster of an offseason would be the Sox trading a number of their talented youngsters for a pile of rocks. They still have the youngsters, they still have they money. it isn't a complete disaster IMO.

 

Again, which upgrades? Sox needed help at SS, C and maybe SP. I see no obvious SS, no obvious C and only overpaid SPs. The Yankees set the market by paying guys like Burnett as if they were Pedro and the Sox didn't follow suit. They got crap for signing Drew at 14m a year, and now they're being criticizing for not 'upgrading' to Burnett at more than that?

 

They are being criticized because they had a significant drop in payroll and had obvious needs that were being filled on the cheap. Regardless. I have a question for you. If the sox had Burnett over Penny and had Teixeira in their lineup, would they be a much improved team. A simple yes or no will suffice. When you had the opportunity to lock up one or both while LOWERING your overall payroll, you do it. The fact is, the sox will make just as much if not more in terms of revenue and now they are banking the 50 mil they are saving by not signing anyone of value. Does that make you feel good inside?