2007 Spring Training Game Thread

[ORS]

3/13 @ Toronto

 

Gameday Link

 

Lineups:

 

BOS

 

2B - Pedroia

SS - Cora

1B - Hinske

DH - Manny

LF - WMP

RF - Moss

CF - Murphy

C - Kottaras

3B - McEwing

P - Snyder

 

TOR

 

LF - Johnson

1B - Stairs

CF - Wells

DH - Thomas

RF - Rios

SS - Smith

C - Phillips

2B - Adams

3B - McDonald

P - Burnett

[a700hitter]

Nice K by Snyder with a man on 3rd and less than 2 out. They need him to pump up his trade value.

[a700hitter]

Back to back K's by Snyder

[ORS]

Is it realistic for other teams to expect the Sox to keep him on the 25-man? That's the only way he has trade value because he is out of options, and anyone interested in him could gamble that he doesn't make the 25-man and pick him up once the Sox put him on waivers, which they'd have to do to send him to AAA. They'll likely start the season with a 12-man staff, which would look like this:

 

Starters (5): Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Papelbon, Wakefield

Relievers (7): Timlin, Donnelly, Tavarez, Okajima, Romero, Pineiro, ????

 

???? could be Snyder, but given the hit or miss nature of this BP, and if he keeps pitching well, I'm thinking that guy needs to be MDC. Who knows, maybe Timlin can start the year on the DL while they try and find interest for Snyder.

[a700hitter]

Is it realistic for other teams to expect the Sox to keep him on the 25-man? That's the only way he has trade value because he is out of options' date=' and anyone interested in him could gamble that he doesn't make the 25-man and pick him up once the Sox put him on waivers, which they'd have to do to send him to AAA. [/quote']Not true. If you are the Mets that are looking everywhere for pitching, you run the risk that one of 25 teamsclaim him ahead of you. Also, with almost three weeks of ST left, there is no guaranty that Romero makes the team, that Tavarez doesn't get traded, or that Timlin doesn't start the season on the DL.

[ORS]

That's a good point. Although, the Mets have a couple of good prospect options in Pelfrey and Humber.

[a700hitter]

That's a good point. Although' date=' the Mets have a couple of good prospect options in Pelfrey and Humber.[/quote']I was just using the Mets as an example.

[a700hitter]

Do you think Corey has a chance to stick?

[ORS]

Given the way Corey's pitched in ST, I'd like him to get a shot.

[VA Sox Fan]

Thanks for the game updates guys, don't have it on XM today, just mlb.com.

 

Just read this in the Globe (speaking of Snyder):

 

 

 

March 13, 2007

Snyder may stick in Sox bullpen

By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff

DUNEDIN, Fla. --Kyle Snyder made another very solid start today against the Toronto Blue Jays (three innings, two hits, no runs, two walks, two strikeouts) and afterward revealed that the Red Sox will scale him back from here on out to possibly fit him in their bullpen.

 

Snyder, who is out of minor league options, would either have to make the Sox 25-man roster or he could become a free-agent. He has received a lot of attention from scouts who have flocked to watch his games. But the Sox might be thinking Snyder could be a Bronson Arroyo-type who could protect them as a spot starter, long-reliever.

 

Snyder even said after his outing when asked whether he thought he could be a closer, "I believe I could. My stuff is good enough and I think I could even throw with more velocity."

 

Snyder would likely have no shortage of opportunities if the Sox should let him go, but they also appear to have trade possibilities available to them as well.

 

Snyder said team officials have been up front with him about the situation with the starting rotation. Basically, there's no room at the inn. But the Sox would hate to repeat the mistake of trading Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena. This time, the Sox would have to get a top reliever.

 

"My value is my versatility," Snyder said. "I feel I have an upside. I feel I'm a starter, but I'll do what ever I have to do."

 

Snyder believes he will be a major league pitcher when the season starts - either with the Sox out of the bullpen or with another team as a starter.

 

Snyder, who has been through numerous injuries, said he was grateful the Sox "stretched him out" in case there is a chance for him to pitch elsewhere. But he said "I'll be shortened up after this one."

 

Posted By: ncafardo | Time: 02:34:45 PM |

[ORS]

I'd say that piece is a nice plant by the FO. It's exactly the type of posturing I was refering to above.

[a700hitter]

Corey gave up 1 run and 4 hits today. That will not help him. What about Breslow as the lefty from the pen? In order, this is how I like the lefties: 1. Okijima, 2. Lopez, 3. Breslow, 4. J.C. Romero. Two and three are really close in my opinion.

[a700hitter]

I'd say that piece is a nice plant by the FO. It's exactly the type of posturing I was refering to above.

I agree. He'll probably be traded within a week.

[VA Sox Fan]

I'd say that piece is a nice plant by the FO. It's exactly the type of posturing I was refering to above.

 

Not our FO......

 

Good timing huh?

[Cocos Disciples]

Is it realistic for other teams to expect the Sox to keep him on the 25-man? That's the only way he has trade value because he is out of options, and anyone interested in him could gamble that he doesn't make the 25-man and pick him up once the Sox put him on waivers, which they'd have to do to send him to AAA. They'll likely start the season with a 12-man staff, which would look like this:

 

Starters (5): Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka, Papelbon, Wakefield

Relievers (7): Timlin, Donnelly, Tavarez, Okajima, Romero, Pineiro, ????

 

???? could be Snyder, but given the hit or miss nature of this BP, and if he keeps pitching well, I'm thinking that guy needs to be MDC. Who knows, maybe Timlin can start the year on the DL while they try and find interest for Snyder.

 

I think MDC gets a roster spot. I would rather Snyder than Romero, especially if Tavarez is in fact closing. This would give us a long man option.

 

EDIT: I suppose Pineiro could be a long reliever if he does not close...

[ORS]

Snyder over Romero? Romero limits lefties to a .229/.319/.303 line for his career. And despite his horrible year last year, he was even better than that. What is with the Romero hate? The guy hasn't given up a run in ST - meaningless, I know - but he's been a very good pitcher 3 of the last 5 years (normal for RP variance), and even when he's bad he maintains his usefulness against lefties. Guy's a keeper, no doubt.

[Cocos Disciples]

Well he is a lefty, that certainly does help, especially since Okajima is a huge question mark IMO. He is probably worth keeping on the roster.

[jacksonianmarch]

Snyder over Romero? Romero limits lefties to a .229/.319/.303 line for his career. And despite his horrible year last year' date=' he was even better than that. What is with the Romero hate? The guy hasn't given up a run in ST - meaningless, I know - but he's been a very good pitcher 3 of the last 5 years (normal for RP variance), and even when he's bad he maintains his usefulness against lefties. Guy's a keeper, no doubt.[/quote']

 

What needs to be determined is who is more of a lefty specialist and who is a lefty capable of throwing a full inning. If Okajima and Romero get massacred by the righties, then one will have to be chosen.

At the same time, Romero isnt the best of choices for the red sox since he has essentially been the bitch of the yankees every single time he comes into a pressure situation. The yankee lefties own him. And he gives out too many free passes, especially for a lefty specialist. When he was in his prime, he was a good pitcher, and if he regains his prime, he could be a setup man for the sox. But when you come from a Bud Black system and had one of the worst yrs a reliever could have, then you are starting from the ground and working up. He has a long way to go before he is useful again, but it isnt impossible.

[ORS]

What needs to be determined is who is more of a lefty specialist and who is a lefty capable of throwing a full inning. If Okajima and Romero get massacred by the righties, then one will have to be chosen.

At the same time, Romero isnt the best of choices for the red sox since he has essentially been the bitch of the yankees every single time he comes into a pressure situation. The yankee lefties own him. And he gives out too many free passes, especially for a lefty specialist. When he was in his prime, he was a good pitcher, and if he regains his prime, he could be a setup man for the sox. But when you come from a Bud Black system and had one of the worst yrs a reliever could have, then you are starting from the ground and working up. He has a long way to go before he is useful again, but it isnt impossible.

This would worry me if it weren't so myopic. He's pitched 15 2/3 of his career 456 innings against NY. His career ERA is 4.60 compared to a NY ERA of 5.17. Do you really think that is meaningful, Jacko? I mean if you remove NY from his stats his ERA drops a whopping 0.02 runs. Whoopiedeedoo!

 

And, he's not your bitch in pressure situations. You couldn't score a run off him in the '03 playoffs.

 

Another FOS post, Jacko. Do some research first.

[jacksonianmarch]

so the whole 5.59ERA in the postseason shows that he can handle the postseason? Nice try ORS.

[a700hitter]

Snyder over Romero? Romero limits lefties to a .229/.319/.303 line for his career. And despite his horrible year last year' date=' he was even better than that. What is with the Romero hate? The guy hasn't given up a run in ST - meaningless, I know - but he's been a very good pitcher 3 of the last 5 years (normal for RP variance), and even when he's bad he maintains his usefulness against lefties. Guy's a keeper, no doubt.[/quote']Problem with Romero is he is a world class choker. I've seen him implode too many times against the Yankees in big spots. I don't care what his splits and stats say, the guy is a bum based on that. He's got no guts, no intestinal fortitude.

[ORS]

so the whole 5.59ERA in the postseason shows that he can handle the postseason? Nice try ORS.

Are you kidding me? He's pitched a total of 9.2 innings of postseason baseball. One of those series, and the one that accounts for 5 of his 6 postseason ERs, was against the Halos in 2002. That crew smoked every pitcher in the playoffs that year, especially Stanton who was very good for the Yankees in the postseason.

 

Try? There's no effort needed when it comes to you. You are as easy as they come.

[riverside sluggers]

just wondering how many innings has Correy pitched? his era is 0.00

 

That would be 6 scoreless innings I believe Anuj, not sure if he pitched in todays game. Im surprised his name hasnt been tossed out for the empty spot the relievers are trying to compete for. That spot being empty unless MDC can prove its his to keep

 

EDIT: Just checked his stats Anuj. He is currently 0-1 with a 1.13 ERA-- 8 innings, 6 Hits, 1 Run, 4 Ks

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you kidding me? He's pitched a total of 9.2 innings of postseason baseball. One of those series, and the one that accounts for 5 of his 6 postseason ERs, was against the Halos in 2002. That crew smoked every pitcher in the playoffs that year, especially Stanton who was very good for the Yankees in the postseason.

 

Try? There's no effort needed when it comes to you. You are as easy as they come.

 

so the stats dont favor me in one series, yet they dont favor you overall. Solid idea ORS. I didnt make the attack, you did, and you cannot back it up, so you talk about the power of the stats. That there is a smaller amount of innings is a given when you are talking about the playoffs. If you want to ferret out a smaller sample of a small sample then point out how small the overall sample is, you essentially diminish your initial point. You follow?

[ORS]

Problem with Romero is he is a world class choker. I've seen him implode too many times against the Yankees in big spots. I don't care what his splits and stats say' date=' the guy is a bum based on that. He's got no guts, no intestinal fortitude.[/quote']

Does it get bigger than the playoffs? He's pitched in 5 different games over two years against the Yankees in the postseason. Five appearances totaling 4 innings, yet he only gave up 1 run. That's choking? The only improvement is perfection.

[ORS]

so the stats dont favor me in one series' date=' yet they dont favor you overall. Solid idea ORS. I didnt make the attack, you did, and you cannot back it up, so you talk about the power of the stats. That there is a smaller amount of innings is a given when you are talking about the playoffs. If you want to ferret out a smaller sample of a small sample then point out how small the overall sample is, you essentially diminish your initial point. You follow?[/quote']

No, I'm not trying to ferret out a segment of a small sample. I'm showing how circumstance can lead to misleading overall results in the small sample.

[jacksonianmarch]

and how both of us can be right depending on how we look at it. That is why I love stats.

 

There are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics.

[TheKilo]

so the stats dont favor me in one series' date=' yet they dont favor you overall. Solid idea ORS. I didnt make the attack, you did, and you cannot back it up, so you talk about the power of the stats. That there is a smaller amount of innings is a given when you are talking about the playoffs. If you want to ferret out a smaller sample of a small sample then point out how small the overall sample is, you essentially diminish your initial point. You follow?[/quote']

 

 

Wait wait wait.

 

You said Romero was the Yankee's bitch, thereby placing his ERA against the Yankees much higher than his career ERA. ORS showed that the difference is not that great, as if the Yankee sample was taken out, the overall ERA does not drop significantly.

 

Then you say he chokes in the postseason because he's pitched an incredibly small amount of innings there? Do the words "small sample size" have any significance?

 

If Romero had been "owned" by the Yankees like you said he has, would his overall ERA drop by LESS THAN ONE TENTH OF A RUN if it was taken out or would more be dropped?

 

and how both of us can be right depending on how we look at it. That is why I love stats.

 

There are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics.

 

Except statistics have biases that can skew the results of your findings, one of the biggest being small sample size.

 

Where were you right again?

[jacksonianmarch]

Kilo, his small sample size against the yankees is the reason for the slight change in era with his numbers subtracted. It doesnt mean that he is any better against them. And since he has never been in the yankees division, you cannot expect his innings against them to be high.

[TheKilo]

Kilo' date=' his small sample size against the yankees is the reason for the slight change in era with his numbers subtracted. It doesnt mean that he is any better against them. And since he has never been in the yankees division, you cannot expect his innings against them to be high.[/quote']

 

You said he was the Yankee's bitch.

 

In actuality, his ERA is about half a run higher (if ORS's numbers are correct, which I assume they are). Doesn't exactly sound like a "bitch" to me.

 

And high innings? Romero pitches 48.1 innings last year. He's averaged about 60 over the last four years.

 

Assuming there are going to be 162 9 inning games, that brings the total innings played in a season (keep in mind this is the minimum #) to 1458. If Romero's innings hold true to form, that means he'd be pitching in about 4% of the teams innings this season.

 

Now we play the Yankees 19 times. 19*9 = 171. 4% of that is roughly 7 innings. 7. And the only reason it's that high is because they are in the same division.

 

Let's extrapolate even further. That 7 innings of the total 1458 is a paltry .5% of the innings pitched all year.

 

In short, Romero's performance against the Yankees this year PROBABLY won't be hugely significant.