2007 Spring Training Game Thread

[Dana Kiecker]

The altar boy probably wouldnt swallow this morning.. he took it out on you.. so what.

[jacksonianmarch]

The altar boy probably wouldnt swallow this morning.. he took it out on you.. so what.

 

lol

[a700hitter]

So I guess the gold glover Mark Loretta can handle any bad feed coming from a shortstop.

 

Might as well get that hit out now on Pedroia if you think he's going to be Renteria of 2005

You get so defensive. I'm not attacking the guy. I'm just evaluating him. You apparently have big expectations for him. I am hoping he will be an average ML secod baseman and hold down the position for the year without being a detriment to a very talented team.

[EvilDonut]

You get so defensive. I'm not attacking the guy. I'm just evaluating him. You apparently have big expectations for him. I am hoping he will be an average ML secod baseman and hold down the position for the year without being a detriment to a very talented team.

 

If MLB 2k7 is any indication, He'll be batting .087 by the end of April.

[mar_022]

I'm watching Nesn on MLB.com and it seems fine. It's the Mlb.com stream that's pissing me off. Either the 700kb stream is not in place for Spring Training or it's complete ********.

 

i'm hoping the 700kb stream starts up w/ the reg season too RSRooter. I think it very well may, too, because when i signed up i'm pretty sure that "new feature" was under the column that said "available 4/2" in parentheses

[riverside sluggers]

You get so defensive. I'm not attacking the guy. I'm just evaluating him. You apparently have big expectations for him. I am hoping he will be an average ML secod baseman and hold down the position for the year without being a detriment to a very talented team.

 

My expectations arent for him to turn into one of the elite 2nd baseman that there are currently (Cano, Utley). I think he's a Mark Loretta type just 13 years prior. He will give you steady defense, hit .280 to .300, knows how to work the strike zone (hard to K, makes the pitchers work), and is a gap drive hitter. Im sure his teammates and coaching staff are working with him to cut down on his big swing

[BSN07]

I for one am glad matsuzaka got slapped around a little. It just gets it out of the way. The one thing I notcied is he dominated the ML guys and gave up the two bombs to nobodys. I'll take that, because whats he gonna face during the season? ML and not invitees that nobody has never heard of or knows anything about. And hes going to get knocked around every once in awhile, I mean all the stud pitchers in the league right now get knocked around from time to time, just as long as he has more quality/dominate starts then ones he gets knocked around then he will be good.

 

As for Pedroia, my expectations of him are very miniscule. Don't get me wrong I like him, but as far as him producing big for the team i'm not concerned with it. If he plays decent D and gets on base at a decent clip then thats about all I expect out of him.

[BSN07]

Hey SeaBeachFred... Sounds like your Man of the Cloth has a little Envy problem, you should remind him that hes not allowed to do that and he shouldn't pass judgment on anyone or any team and that is for God to decide... I love messing with the clergy foke LOL

[a700hitter]

My expectations arent for him to turn into one of the elite 2nd baseman that there are currently (Cano' date=' Utley). I think he's a Mark Loretta type just 13 years prior. He will give you steady defense, hit .280 to .300, knows how to work the strike zone (hard to K, makes the pitchers work), and is a gap drive hitter. Im sure his teammates and coaching staff are working with him to cut down on his big swing[/quote']I agree that Loretta-type performance is his upside, but we can't be sure or he may be a year away from achieving his potential. My issue is that they could have kept Loretta, a known quantity, as a relatively inexpensive insurance policy on this high paid team.

[TheKilo]

I agree that Loretta-type performance is his upside' date=' but we can't be sure or he may be a year away from achieving his potential. My issue is that they could have kept Loretta, a known quantity, as a relatively inexpensive insurance policy on this high paid team.[/quote']

 

A known below-average quantity.

[seabeachfred]

BoNat, that's what got me about Father Don. He wasn't kidding when he went by and told me "the Red Sox are a bunch of bums". His absolutely exact words. I know he's a rabid Dodger fan, but to do that at the end of a Mass as he's walking out of the church to greet the parishioners? Sorry, but I'm still a little chaped about that and I will say something to him (respectfully since he is a priest) next time I see him. Passing judgment? I can see anyone having the right to spout off because as everyone knows I do it all the time. I just think the time and place was not appropriate. Besides, if anybody played like a bunch of bums the last 18 years it certainly would be more like his team than ours.

[a700hitter]

A known below-average quantity.

You must be mistaking him for Jose Offerman in his last couple of years. I'll take a "below average" second baseman that makes the All Star team,hits .285-.300,kills the Yankees, and makes only 4 errors the entire year.

[TheKilo]

You must be mistaking him for Jose Offerman in his last couple of years. I'll take a "below average" second baseman that makes the All Star team' date='hits .285-.300,kills the Yankees, and makes only 4 errors the entire year.[/quote']

 

Batting average and errors are not the best stats to use to determine the worth of a player.

 

I digress...

[redsoxrules]

Batting average and errors are not the best stats to use to determine the worth of a player.

 

I digress...

 

 

really? even someone who only hits 200

[TheKilo]

really? even someone who only hits 200

 

I said they aren't the best stats. Certainly you could use them to shape some picture of a player, but it's not the be all and end all that most people think.

[CrespoBlows]

really? even someone who only hits 200

 

What if they have a .400 OBP?

[redsoxrules]

What if they have a .400 OBP?

 

well thats a difference story .. but chances are if someone hits 200 his OBP isnt gonna be 400 unless your barry bonds

[TheKilo]

well thats a difference story .. but chances are if someone hits 200 his OBP isnt gonna be 400 unless your barry bonds

 

Adam Dunn hit .234 last year. Mark Loretta hit .285. Which would you rather have on your team?

 

Or, if we're comparing positions, Youkilis hit .279.

[CrespoBlows]

well thats a difference story .. but chances are if someone hits 200 his OBP isnt gonna be 400 unless your barry bonds

 

Or one of the Giambi brothers. :dunno:

[redsoxrules]

Adam Dunn hit .234 last year. Mark Loretta hit .285. Which would you rather have on your team?

 

Or, if we're comparing positions, Youkilis hit .279.

 

actually none of the 3

[CrespoBlows]

I can understand Loretta, and maybe Youkilis, but why not Adam Dunn?

[redsoxrules]

I can understand Loretta' date=' and maybe Youkilis, but why not Adam Dunn?[/quote']

 

well maybe....Dunn its either one of 3 thing that happens with him ... he either hits a homerun, walk or strikes out .and i find most of his homeruns that he hits are meaningless , but thats just me

[ORS]

actually none of the 3

Dodging the question won't make the thread you are hanging on to any stronger. It was an either/or choice, so you have two options. Make the right choice and concede the point, or make the wrong choice in order to stick by your guns.

[a700hitter]

Batting average and errors are not the best stats to use to determine the worth of a player.

 

I digress...

I didn't say that Batting Average and errors were the only indicators of a player's worth. I don't think OPS is the be all and end all as an indicator of value, especially for the #2 hitter on the Red Sox who is needed to get on base, put the bat on the ball, and make productive outs. Loretta fit that bill perfectly. Pedroia is still a ?. As for fielding, Loretta had the seond highest fielding percentage. (meaningless to you) in the league for second basemen with more than 100 games played. He also finished 2nd in DP's (also meaningless?). He was third in chances (also meaningless?). His range factor was better than Luis Castillo, Jose LoPez, Cantu, Iguchi and Brian Roberts. Is this also meaningless?

[redsoxrules]

Dodging the question won't make the thread you are hanging on to any stronger. It was an either/or choice' date=' so you have two options. Make the right choice and concede the point, or make the wrong choice in order to stick by your guns.[/quote']

 

yes sir ! anything else?

[ORS]

THT just came out with good revision for ZR. Stats Inc came up with zone rating, but the flaw is that it didn't account for out of zone plays and awarded double credit for double plays. The new ZR at THT is a more accurate depiction. Not very surprisingly, Loretta finished 19th out of 25 qualified 2B last year. Below average.

 

Zone Rating is the proportion of balls hit into a fielder's zone that he successfully converted into an out. Zone Rating was invented by John Dewan when he was CEO of Stats Inc. John is now the owner of Baseball Info Solutions, where he has revised Zone Rating so that it lists balls handled out of the zone (OOZ) separately (and doesn't include them in the ZR calculation) and also doesn't give players extra credit for double plays. We believe both changes improve the Zone Ratings substantially. You can read more about the revised Zone Ratings in John's Fielding Bible.

 

Link to the stats

 

Sidenote, I'm glad THT finally came out with a defensive metric, and I like the methodology on this one.

[redsoxrules]

ORS i tought hudson was the best defensive 2nd baseman ? there goes that theory with what you just brought up, its even worse than loretta

[Ray10]

Yes I get to watch tonight's game. They are playing it on Rogers Sportsnet up here.

[ORS]

I noticed that, and I didn't say it was perfect. Another flaw with the original ZR is that it doesn't take defensive alignment into account. The zones are hard zones, and alignment can result in a player giving up a hit in his zone that he has no chance to make a play on.

 

EDIT: But, more than likely what happened is that I, like many others, was blinded by the brilliance. Hudson makes some spectacular plays. The guys at the top of the list are excellent keystoners, so I'll admit my perception doesn't fit reality on that one. On Loretta, he hits the list right where I'd expect him to.

[redsoxrules]

I noticed that' date=' and I didn't say it was perfect. Another flaw with the original ZR is that it doesn't take defensive alignment into account. The zones are hard zones, and alignment can result in a player giving up a hit in his zone that he has no chance to make a play on.[/quote']

 

but you were just saying that by looking at the rating you werent surprise that loretta was low on the list but when you saw hudson ..oh wait there has to be a mistake... oh please

 

if thats the case then , loretta like hudson is better than what they show on that list