2007 Spring Training Game Thread

[a700hitter]

Maybe so. He'll probably total more outs too.

I want this kid to succeed. I really wish I could see in him what you guys think about him. IMO it's just not there. He's average, at best, in every aspect of his game. His range is not that great either, so most of those balls will still go through the first/second base hole. His additional errors will hurt. Make no mistake about it.

 

Good' date=' that would make his contribution more than what Loretta's was last year.[/quote']I'll take from Pedroia what Loretta gave us last year in a heart beat. OPS is a meaningless stat for our #2 hitter with Manny and Ortiz ready to clean up after you. We need consistent contact and productive outs in the second hole. Also, let's not forget that Loretta hit the Yankees pretty well.

[a700hitter]

Maybe so. He'll probably total more outs too.

 

EDIT: That is, through the All Star break.

Very funny. My prediction will come true though.

[ORS]

And if Pedroia is average, you will get it and then some. I like Loretta too. He was unremarkably reliable, which is good sometimes. That said he was below average offensively (13 batting runs) and defensively (9 fielding runs) for his position.

[ORS]

Very funny. My prediction will come true though.

You missed my point. He'll total more outs than Loretta did through the ASG despite the errors. I added the edit because you were comparing the hole season to a half season, and I didn't want the assumption to be that I was saying Pedroia would best Loretta's whole season out total by the ASB.

 

EDIT: And, I'm confident mine will too. In the end, it's the outs that send the other team back to the dugout. If he's making more of them, then he's doing a better job than Loretta.

[a700hitter]

And if Pedroia is average' date=' you will get it and then some. I like Loretta too. He was unremarkably reliable, which is good sometimes. That said he was below average offensively (13 batting runs) and defensively (9 fielding runs) for his position.[/quote']

I'll take these remarkably above average stats against the Yankees:

Category G  AB  R  H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP  SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP 
vs. NY-A 19 81 14 31  6  0 0  11   8  8  2 0 .433 .457 .383 37 1  1  0   0   2 

 

Loretta is a pro that gave the team what it needed. He wasn't out there to pad his stats. If the team needed the runner moved to third with less than two outs, he gave himself up every time. He was very aware of who he had batting behind him. He didn't need to try to jack an Xtra base hit. Pedroia is wet behind the ears and he has limited physical skills.

[ksushi]

Against the yankees isn't everything. They can't keep every aging vet in on the roster year in year out.

[a700hitter]

You missed my point. He'll total more outs than Loretta did through the ASG despite the errors. I added the edit because you were comparing the hole season to a half season, and I didn't want the assumption to be that I was saying Pedroia would best Loretta's whole season out total by the ASB.

 

EDIT: And, I'm confident mine will too. In the end, it's the outs that send the other team back to the dugout. If he's making more of them, then he's doing a better job than Loretta.

ORS, have you seen very much of this kid in person? He can't run a lick. His range is not going to be what you think it is going to be. He has neither footspeed or good footwork. That translates to limited range. You'll be screaming about him by the end of May.

[a700hitter]

Against the yankees isn't everything. They can't keep every aging vet in on the roster year in year out.

You think anyone over 25 is an aging vet. Would you take Loretta's 2006 year for Pedroia this year if you could lock it in right now? I would.

 

You can root for these young guys all you want. Some of them will be good and others forgotten or just average. Ellsbury is tremendously talented. Pedroia is not. His career will prove my point.

[ORS]

ORS' date=' have you seen very much of this kid in person? He can't run a lick. His range is not going to be what you think it is going to be. He has neither footspeed or good footwork. That translates to limited range. You'll be screaming about him by the end of May.[/quote']

No, I haven't seen him at all, which is why I trust the scouting reports. No speed is on the scouting reports, but they also credit him with good quickness and range at his position. Since it seems to matter so much, do you watch him for extensive periods of time. To my knowledge you have seen him during the first week of ST for the last two consecutive years. Is that the time to see a player to get a gauge of his ability? Somehow I think it isn't.

[riverside sluggers]

ORS' date=' have you seen very much of this kid in person? He can't run a lick. His range is not going to be what you think it is going to be. He has neither footspeed or good footwork. That translates to limited range. You'll be screaming about him by the end of May.[/quote']

 

To be fair youve just seen him play at the end of last season when he was promoted after a pro-career high of 423 ABs in Pawtucket... and now in ST where all players are trying to find their way back to season mode.

 

Ive been to Portland & Pawtucket numerous times and watched him play as the scouting reports list.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' I haven't seen him at all, which is why I trust the scouting reports. No speed is on the scouting reports, but they also credit him with good quickness and range at his position. Since it seems to matter so much, do you watch him for extensive periods of time. To my knowledge you have seen him during the first week of ST for the last two consecutive years. Is that the time to see a player to get a gauge of his ability? Somehow I think it isn't.[/quote']I'll bet that I have seen him more than some of the scout that have written reports on him. There was an article in the early spring in one of the Boston papers about his footwork needing improvement. It does. No speed + poor footwork = _______ range. I'll let you do the math.

[a700hitter]

Ive been to Portland & Pawtucket numerous times and watched him play as the scouting reports list.

Did those reports say he has speed or good footwork?

[ORS]

C'mon 700. You can't really believe you've seen more of him in two weeks than the scouts have in the last 3 years. Please tell me that is complete hyperbole, because there's no way it's close to true. Does he need to improve? Sure, but that doesn't mean anything re: comparisons to Loretta. Loretta was a statue out there last year. Despite being tied for the 3rd fewest errors for starting 2B he was 9 runs below average. If it isn't hands or arm, then it's gotta be range. And, while footwork is important for a keystoner, your equation doesn't prove poor range. He may need improvement there, and he may not have good speed, but that doesn't mean he isn't quick, and every scouting report says he's quick to the ball.

[riverside sluggers]

per soxpropsects.com

Scouting Report: Small infielder had a tremendous career at Arizona State. Average power for a middle infielder, with good bat speed and excellent plate discipline. Loves the game and has fantastic instincts. Plays top-notch defense up the middle, named the 2003 National Defensive Player of the Year. Very scrappy; a great teammate. Has pro experience at both shortstop and second base; many scouts project him to be better suited for second base down the line. Overall, Pedroia may not be an all-star, but is likely to be a dependable second baseman at the major league level, which is a great asset for any team, especially on a cost-controlled basis.

 

Awards

2004 Golden Spikes Award Finalist

2004 First-Team Baseball America and USA Today All-American

2003 Pac-10 Co-Player of the Year

2003 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year

Red Sox ML Base Runner of the Month (Apr. 2005)

Red Sox ML "Quality Plate Appearances" Award (Jun. 2005)

2005 Post-Season Eastern League All-Star

2005 SoxProspects.com All-Star - 2B

2005 Red Sox Minor League Offensive Player of the Year

2006 SoxProspects.com Pre-Season All-Star - 2B

2006 SoxProspects.com All-Star - Shortstop

2006 International League All-Star

[jacksonianmarch]

the phrases "scrappy" and "loves the game" are interesting words in the scouting report.

[a700hitter]

C'mon 700. You can't really believe you've seen more of him in two weeks than the scouts have in the last 3 years.

I haven't seen more than all scouts combined, but maybe Scaffolds can weigh in here. There is a Texas Rangers scout in my neighborhood and I can tell you that he doesn't follow every prospect for weeks at a time. Very often he might only see a guy for a game or two. There are too few scouts and too many prospects to devote a lot of time to each and every prospect. It was not hyperbole. I probably have seen him more than some scouts that have submitted report on him.

[a700hitter]

Scouting Report: Small infielder had a tremendous career at Arizona State. Average power for a middle infielder, with good bat speed and excellent plate discipline. Loves the game and has fantastic instincts. Plays top-notch defense up the middle, named the 2003 National Defensive Player of the Year. Very scrappy; a great teammate. Has pro experience at both shortstop and second base; many scouts project him to be better suited for second base down the line. Overall, Pedroia may not be an all-star, but is likely to be a dependable second baseman at the major league level, which is a great asset for any team, especially on a cost-controlled basis.

I have highlighted the traits that are almost impossible to judge by watching a guy for a short period. The intangible in scouting is that you don't know what the guy has inside. He might be an exellent hitter, but without power or speed. I can't make an accurate call on how he will hit ultimately, but my experience tells me that his big swing is not a good indication of future success. In the field, his lack of speed and footwork will hurt his range. He can improve his footwork, but we'll have to see.

[riverside sluggers]

I guess he won those defense awards in a raffle then

[ORS]

Sorry, I'm not buying it. I know they don't follow individual prospects for weeks at a time, but there's just no way your two weeks in Ft Myers will total more games watched than 3 whole years of professional and winter league baseball. Guys get assigned to regions and they see the same guys several times in the different league matchups. I applaud your confidence 700, but I don't agree with its basis.

[ORS]

I guess he won those defense awards in a raffle then

And, you missed one. While not an official award, he was rated the best defensive 2B in the Eastern League by the managers in 2005. I think that one is a raffle too, though.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/file2.JPG

[MANNYHOF24]

Beckett had a pretty tough line today, did anybody see the game, was he horrible?

[riverside sluggers]

3.2 innings, 4 Hits, 5 Runs (2 ER), Walk, 2 Hit Batters, K

 

Pedroia had misplayed two plays in the first inning that led to the 5 runs. He was scoreless for the rest of the 2.2 innings after being led off the field with a trainer.

[MANNYHOF24]

3.2 innings' date=' 4 Hits, 5 Runs [b'](2 ER)[/b], Walk, 2 Hit Batters, K

 

Pedroia had misplayed two plays in the first inning that led to the 5 runs. He was scoreless for the rest of the 2.2 innings after being led off the field with a trainer.

 

Any info on why he was taken off?

[ORS]

That's not true. He gave up the 2 ER in the 3rd on an IF hit, BB, HBP, seeing eye single. The Tiger's radio guys were on MLB Gameday Audio and they said there was nothing hard hit off him.

[riverside sluggers]

My apologies, I read the boxscore quick

[a700hitter]

Sorry' date=' I'm not buying it. I know they don't follow individual prospects for weeks at a time, but there's just no way your two weeks in Ft Myers will total more games watched than 3 whole years of professional and winter league baseball. Guys get assigned to regions and they see the same guys several times in the different league matchups. I applaud your confidence 700, but I don't agree with its basis.[/quote']If a guy is projected to become a pro, he gets seen more often, but once the scouting community has come to a consensus on a guy they don't keep going to see him, especially after he's been drafted. That would be re-creating the wheel. Now, I'm not a scout and I am not saying that my opinion carries as much weight as a professional scout, but you know how much baseball I have watched throughout the years and you know that I know a fair bit about the game. My opinion is not totally worthless. I can tell certain things about a player if I see him in person for six or seven straight days. Hitting is hard to judge, because you can catch a guy in a slump, because you would swear that he is blind. If you catch a guy when he's hot , you think he is Wade Boggs. A week of seeing a guy workout, take BP and fielding practice and play in the games gives you a pretty good idea of what you are dealing with. Hell, professional scouts only need to see a guy make one or two plays to sum up his abilities. ORS, this guy is average. It is very disappointing to me but he is. I don't know about the intangibles, scrapiness etc., but he is not very talented. I was thrilled at what I was seeing with Ellsbury. He is clearly very talented and it was obvious why he has leap-frogged Murphy, who I am rooting for very hard. I am rooting hard for Pedroia, but I am expecting very little.

[a700hitter]

I guess he won those defense awards in a raffle then

College and minor league awards are nice, but they don't translate to the next level. There are many IL Players of the Year that never make it. I'm also not the first person to spot his bad footwork. That report came out of the Red Sox organization, and it came fairly recently, which says little for the player development skill of the organization. Some one should have spotted this much earlier.

[schillingouttheks]

So uh, what's up with the photo?

[ORS]

So uh' date=' what's up with the photo?[/quote']

Beckett hit Sheffield in the 1st with an inside pitch on the hand - apparently there was a dispute as to whether or not it hit his hand. In the 3rd he plunked Mags in the ear-hole of the helmet with a curve that got away from him, but the Tiger's announcers said it looked like Mags ducked down into it and it otherwise would have hit him in the shoulder. So, Beckett accidentally hit two Tigers, and it wasn't like he was throwing at them. Johnny-Cakes Jones comes in to pitch the 5th and after retiring 'Tek he throws two straight intentionally at Drew's head. Ump gave him and Leyland, who came to argue the boot, and Leyland and Demarlo Hale exchanged words that emptied the benches.

 

EDIT: I was multitasking while I listened to the game. Hale had words with Jones, not Leyland.