Hugh2

I don't think he is either. And my expectations are probably too high for how good the rotation should be next year.

That's not a very good rotation, it's ok rotation if Paxton performs and Sale comes back strong. Can both those things happen? maybe, but even then it leaves me wanting more. To be fair, the rotation isn't very good now either.

If you are ok with the physicals, maybe Nate is the guy.

Yeah, there's no easy fix here, to some extent fixing the rotation is going to have to be dependant a little bit of health and luck. With me the thing about Sale is his injury history is legit, but more recently seems to be fluky....so is the arm ok? if the arm is ok then I have some level of confidence that he should come back fine next year. But I want an ACE added to the rotation because you can't count on that. If Sale does???? then you have a WS caliber 1-2 punch in your rotation.

If you're losing both Eovaldi/Wacha, and you don't think Sale can stay healthy to stay in the roation or shouldn't what is the rotation next year??? Pivetta Paxton Bello Winckowski Crawford You mine as well raise up the white flags now. Do we even know Paxton can stay healthy? I have zero confidence in Crawford/Winkowski being MLB starters, they just aren't that good. I think Crawford can be a swingman. I think Bello could be good, but is he going to be good in 2023? or is he going to struggle for a year or two before he's an established MLB starter? That rotation could EASILY be disastrous. That rotation doesn't need one guy, or even two guys, but three guys added to it at least. Even if Sale is healthy you still need a few guys, If you're signing a Rodon/Scherzer/Verlander/Degrome all those guys are going to cost a lot more than a QO and come with multiple years, especially the younger of the bunch. So if money is the concern it's going to cost even a lot more to fix the rotation outside of a QO. There is of course the trade market, but if you're buying two to three starters there you are effectively selling off your entire farm.

I get not signing Nate to one, I think we'd be happy if Wacha took it. Could really use him in the rotation next year. Regardless, 1 year deals don't prevent them from signing other guys. In other words, guys accepting QO's aren't preventing them from resigning Bogaerts or extending Devers.

If he's healthy he provides 1000000% more value as a starter. His latest injury seems to be more bad luck than anything, if his elbow is healthy and the velocity is there, he's starting.

Also, it's hard to assume Wacha comes back, he will be 31 for 1/2 of next season. He probably gets a deal, and that could be elsewhere. I think Nathan accepts it if he's offered one. Maybe Nathan is the guy you role with and you take the pick with Wacha.

I don't think we would either, but if you add three and subtracting 1 you're left with two.

We need to seriously upgrade the pitching regardless of what we do with anyone of our middling to back-end starters. Hands down the biggest weakness on the team. Bringing back the same guy and expecting better results from fringey rookies with mediocre talent isn't going to net much better results.

IDK, I question that too, but if you're going over the luxury tax anyways next year why not? it's one year and you need pitching. But at this point Wacha has probably pitched himself into one over Nathan, my guess is Wacha gets one and Nathan does not. But people forget Nate is only 32 so I don't think it's out of the question. If you can't count on Sale to stay healthy and you don't offer them to both then what's your rotation? Wacha Pivetta Paxton Bello Paxton? That could be disastrous as well. Maybe my ideal of trading Pivetta is dumb, but at least it's contingent on adding another (better pitcher). The better argument here may be they should be doing that regardless. I think that's the main take away here.

I also wonder if the Sox would offer a QO to both Wacha and Eovaldi, or if they're just picking one. If it's only one, they probably still need Piveta AND have to go out and add another starter. Especially if Whitlock/Houck are permanently in the bullpen now.

If he's the healthy year. YOu have to assume he's in your rotation until he gets hurt because you're paying him a boatload of money.

The long-term plan was to always move Whitlock into the rotation, I'm wondering if they've abandoned that plan. This seems pretty stupid to me because he didn't fail as a starter, rather the bullpen failed and he moved there due to necessity. Seems to me that the way to right the ship is to fix the bullpen....but Maybe the Sox really think a clean bill of health next year and Whitlock/Houck can be a lockdown 8th/9th tandem.

No you're not. But if you're bringing in a TOTRS, somebody has to get booted from the rotation and I'd rather have him go than one of the younger promising arms coming up. 1. TOTRS (Degrom, Scherzer, Rodon, TRADE C) 2. Sale 3. Wacha 4. Eovaldi 5. Bello/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck

You're also not getting much for those guys. And I'd rather trade a guy like Pivetta than Bello, and Pivetta has a ton more value than Wink. Pivetta plus a prospect in the Yorke category probably gets you a pretty good up-the-middle player. Not great but good.

This is true, but I don’t see any of those guys being an ACE, I have faith that Mata and Bello will be good, but probably not TOTRS, most of the other guys will either fail or be relievers. The team is more flush with starters than they’ve been in a long time, this is true, but it’s all #3-#5 talent. Even if Chris Sale is healthy (which you can’t bank on) another ACE makes you a WS caliber team. This is why I kind of like the ideal of signing a Rodon and trading Pivetta for either 2nd/RF. Really like Degrom here as well but he’s asking for stupid money. Maybe he’s worth it. Still open to trade for a TOTRS

The thing with me, and this my opinion, it’s seems like a huge waste to trade for a position player. The team has a much better history of developing and signing position players leaving me biased towards trading for pitching. Might make sense to trade for a guy if you’re bringing in a top tier FA pitcher like Rodon/DeGrom and then maybe you trade a guy like Pivetta for a 2nd basemen…..or a right fielder. I think it’s more probable than not they bring back Bogey, but certainly not a lock.

Valdez is a hit first prospect with bad defense, and if he doesn't hit what does that make him at 2Nd? then who do you play if Arroyo goes down? or Maybe Arroyo isn't as great if he can become a 500 AT player for the first time ever. Jeter Downs? It makes zero sense to buy and up the middle defender this offseason. It's happening.

Nah, player options are great, guy stays 8-9 years instead 6, has a few monster seasons and someone else pays them In their old years.

Yes, but I’m talking about him opting out of what is much longer duration contract. I’m which case we end up with him for 2-3 years

And those will be 2-3 of his best years. I’m all for signing Devers long term, but wouldn’t be completely dissatisfied with only 3 more years of him….better than 1

You kind of have to care about payroll when you don’t have the same money coming in from ticket sales. If anything, the rays way of doing business shows they do care about winning, because they’re are efficient as one can be with what they have to work with.

And I don’t want to see Duran on a MLB roster again unless he either vastly improves his defense or his bat takes off. A bat first position player who can’t hit doesn’t have a place on a team. Kid still has talent and shouldn’t be given up on but I’m not building a MLB team around him. I love Arroyo, but history has shown us we shouldn’t build a team around him being a starter. If this year has shown us anything, it’s how far you can when too many guys get hurt. So let’s shore up this lineup with some durable MLB talent and not platoon it with the same guys getting hurt who haven’t been consistently healthy or good year to year.

Degrom has stated he wants to be the first 50 million dollar pitcher. Yeah, I’m good with that, let’s give Florida a call and see what they want for one of their cost controlled aces.