Hugh2

And you're a professional scout who knows so much about Yoshida? You're right on the first 1/2 of your statement. This team has done a s*** poor job of holding onto its talent. But you fall flat from having a coherent opinion in the second half. If Yoshida is as good as they hope he is, he's worth every penny. Maybe more.

It can both be true that the Sox FO has really messed some things up and the Sports media loves to live in a perpetual state of misleading the public and half-reporting every story out there with an agenda. It must get tiring having to be negative, heck look at why LOU stepped down from WEEI.

how can we simultaneously criticize the Sox for being too cheap and then spending too much on a guy at the same time? that's.....stupid.

No one suggested it because those guys declined 1/2 way into their team control years.

I'm trying to imagine what the Sox budget would look like right now IF they resigned guys like Benintendi/Betts/Bogaerts (no opt out). A lot of assumptions have to be made here because everything is about timing. Maybe Benintendi signs for 15 per after his downward trend, but he might have been less likely to do so if he wanted to bank on himself bouncing back (because he did after they traded him). I'm going to figure penciling him in around $20 per is fair. Betts at $35 million per and Bogaerts at $25 and Devers at $35 (Devers I'm assuming we sign now, could have been less if he signed an extension earlier). Under this scenario who knows who we end up signing and who we don't. I'm going to take the liberty of believing Kike Hernandez is your starting day 2nd in 2023 and Trevory Story was never signed. This puts the payroll at $279 million. with the pitching just as horrible last year maybe worse. That team probably competes, but also probably hasn't reset in years. We probably don't have Mayer/Bleis in the system either. The system as a whole wouldn't have a lot of other guys in it too but that rabbit hole is not worth going down for example e.g. probably won't end up with Roman Anthony last year, but for all, we know they hit on someone else, etc etc. and it's too early to judge. But the system would be pretty thin. and we'd be looking at having lost draft picks and almost no room to sign guys in the international market year in and year out. I understand that's not most fans' concern, but who is starting? because they don't have the money to add to this rotation and Henry would be looking at zero ability to reset the luxury tax in coming years. Even LAD reset several years ago and it's looking HIGHLY likely the go under this year. You may not believe the NY Mets will reset next year (which I do) but they at least have the money coming off the books to do so). Maybe the Sox don't go hard after the bullpen, in which case they have an elite lineup but zero pitching. This is not the argument for not signing all these guys, everything is relative. I'm a big fan of resigning guys earlier, and It's something I hope the Sox start doing because this AIN'T working. Maybe someone from the Devers/Betts/Bogaerts camp takes less money if you're signing them at an earlier age because they see the value in holding out to FA. But here is some food for thought. Everything is about timing, at a certain point in time, JBJ looked like a perennial all-star. After the 2016 season, JBJ looked like a lock to be a .800 OPS guy with GG in CF. That was his age-26 season, and as a 26-year-old he put up more WAR that year than Devers did this year at 26. If we had JBJ on our team RIGHT now in his age 26 seasons with 4 years of team control left and the Sox signed him to a $300/14-year deal it would look like a good deal right now. No one would hate it. Imagine having to pay JBJ for 14 years. There's risk in extending guys too. Just some food for thought.

You can't keep all of them, some guys chose to bet on themselves and go to free agency, and some can be had for their ridiculous "buy now" price. But it does raise ones eyebrow when they seemingly let them all walk. Benintendi/Betts/Bogaerts/ Devers? To be fair Bogaerts did sign an extension, and maybe it could have been done without an opt-out if the Sox opened up their pocket books just a little bit more, or maybe not if they tacked on a few more years. The time to extend guys and save substantial amounts of money is going to be earlier in their careers. That ship sailed with Bogaerts, Betts, and Benintendi years ago. They should have been locked up in the DD era. Devers could have been under Blooms watch and is entirely on him.

Yankees showing interest in Eovaldi. per report. Hmmmm, I wonder if this means he's about to sign somewhere (NOT NY) any hour now.

I do not care to look it up rigth now but I remember researching this back in 2016. The success rates of pitchers post TJ. It's not a guarantee guys come back.....but it's actually pretty high. Sometimes guys come back as good or even better. Verlander isn't just a freak of nature for what he's doing, but because of how long he has done it. Most of these guys getting 10-14 year contracts are going to suck for 1/2 1/3 of it.

I've made this argument time and time again on this board. Going after a premier free agent doesn't guarantee success. Winning the offseason doesn't win the regular season. I used this argument more recently to point out that trading away all our prospect talent for a pitcher or outfielder now when you were in last place is just stupid. Still, you'd expect a big market team like Boston to at least be able to compete for a wildcard by augmenting their team via FA.

The Sox have said they're 100% committed to Whitlock as a starter, and have said time and time again that Houck has been asked to be ready to start. More recently they've said that the stronger the bullpen gets the more likely it's that Houck will start. As of right now Sale Paxton Bello Pivetaa Whitlock Houck. So at least two guys have to go down before you dip into that depth, and there's still a good chance they grab a starter, making that number 3. Also, the Sox aren't going to promote guys based on future talent but rather who may better help the MLB club immediately. Mata may be the best talent they have in the upper minors, and he may be the guy to get the call first mid-season but on opening day they' probably go with Winc/Crawford over him. Mata is on the depth chart, and I expect him to move UP that depth chart, and I expect him to make his MLB debut some time in 2023. But penciling him into the starting day rotation is just bonkers.

I haven't looked it up, but it can take 3 months to heal from a grade 2 lat tear, which means he wouldn't start rehabbing until around right now. That's plenty of time to be ready by opening day even if he hasn't started throwing yet, which he probably wouldn't until sometime soon anyways.

And how good of a job have they done signing homegrown talent early on lately? This also doesn't answer the question of how you find room on the roster for Cutter and Mata who are both slated to start the season in AAA. If Paxton and Sale start the season healthy, then there's zero chance of that happening. And if they're healthy they can compete....don't we WANT to compete? Also, have we not learned our lessons of players development being stunted by being rushed to the majors? we see it time and time again. These are two guys who still need time in the minors, Cutter probably needs to start transitioning to a bullpen role. Mata could be very good, but if he's not ready why rush him? there's also a new incentive to NOT rush guys. The Mariners have an extra FIRST ROUND draft pick this year because Julio Rodriguez won rookie of the year. You only have to finish in the top 5 and be on 2 of the 3 majors top 100 prospect lists. Mata isn't that, but he might be by next year. This just feels like giving up on the 2023 season before we even have to and in the process possibly making us worse in the long run.

Everything is relative as well. There's a difference between rehabbing certain injuries. Sale already spent time rehabbing and starting to ramp back up and then broke his finger on a comebacker. It's not like he's still rehabbing his elbow. How many guys got very little to no innings in the 2020 season and then jumped right back up to 150+ in 2021? James Paxton is also coming back from a grade 2 lat tear. Nothing to sneeze at, but not as serious as rehabbing from Tommy John. I'm not saying I expect 180+ from these guys. But it's not out of the question that Sale can go 150 and Paxton 100 if healthy. As of right now they're healthy, can both happen? Yes can they both get injured again? yes. I think there's very decent chance at least one of them stays healthy all year.

Losing Bogaerts stings, and is a massive brown stain on this FO but if they add Andrus and Kluber to complete the offseason the sum of all the parts could be a much better team in 2023. If you augment that with A Devers extension, they might be able to avoid the pitchforks.

Why would we start the clocks on Mata and Walter just because? Both have barely played above AA, and only one has shown he can get AAA guys out (in a small sample size). Crawford stinks and doesn't belong in this rotation. Also, who are we pushing out of the rotation or the team? So we go with: Bello Crawford Pivetta Mata Walter and we just sit Paxton and Sale preemptively because they're going to be hurt anyways. Where does Whitlock and Houck fit, who both should be fine well before spring training? I'm not understanding the logic here at all, or am I missing the sarcasm through the internet?

No way the Sox go after Rodon and Correa. Maybe Kluber and Andrus.

It’s not a bad long term strategy, but it’s also not one that a large market team such as Boston will put up with fan base wise. We’ve seen teams put together bridge teams and win, and we’ve seen it throw them in last place. We’ve seen it happen in literally just a year, here, twice. Realistically, going by that model, Sox will not go big this off-season, nor next year either. It’s likely 2024 they start going for it. I don’t think Henry had the patience for it, especially if the seats don’t fill up. It will take a stroke of good fortune, but I think he will stay the course with good results in 2023, the fan base my come around too. Problem with this strategy is you have to draft well, and trade well. Luckily the early reports on Blooms drafting is pretty good, but the return on trades is highly questionable. He had the right ideal, he just guessed wrong. Example, if Jeter Downs hit….Bogey walking wouldn’t sting so much right now. Then again, if Downs hit, perhaps he’s the guy at 2nd and not Story. I think one thing people are missing, is even without any additions this team has the capacity to do much better in 2023. Going in with a bullpen is huge, the Bogaerts situation really overshadowed the rest of the offseason so far. The bullpen should be good, and might even be a strength. Maybe that brings them to .500 a clean bill of health makes them a competitor. One thing is for sure. The comment section on talksox is sure to not disappoint. Nobody goes on the DL here.

No.

This can not be stressed enough. It’s also worth noting Bloom didn’t really bring over any of his guys. The guys he’s signing and the prospects he’s trading for are being done by him through the information of the Red Sox scouting and evaluators. If the Sox decide to move on from Bloom and hire a new GM, they need a lot more than just that. They need to invest more money into pro and amateur scouting.

If I remember correctly many in here called me crazy for suggesting Bogaerts gets $217 million. Now it seems that even I under estimated his value.

I’m not for the emotional reactionary responses most seem to succumb too. Perhaps it’s the business man in me that’s operated a successful business and grown it 7 fold in 20 years in me. Emotions lead to mistakes, I suppose that doesn’t matter rooting for a team but it’s ingrained in me. It’s irrefutable this management messed up somewhere, but the narrative spewed about it is illogical, emotional, and doesn’t make sense. It just sounds like angry people to me Hear me out. Let’s ask ourselves one question. Of the free agent signings the Sox have made this year how many did we hear about until it happened? You guessed it, none. Love him or hate him, it’s indisputable that the Bloom regime doesn’t leak a thing, all the information we have is coming from the Boras side. This is obvious. Excuse me for not abiding my opinions purely shaped by the drivel of Boras. The low ball offer reported in spring training came from the Boras camp. I’d like to see what the Sox final offer was. Have any of y’all mad about that ever not punched a clock for a living? Let me tell you how it’s done. Boras asks for 300/10 the Sox ask for 90/10 Both seem absurd to the other side. The Sox know damn well they need to offer more, and Boras knows damn well he has to come down from his price. It’s a dance, it’s a negotiation, no one is getting “insulted” if you think a starting offer is insulting you don’t know business. STOP. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, leave the conversation now. At the very least don’t ever go into business….you will fail. That narrative obviously came from camp Boras. It is logical, leak to the media the low ball opening offer (that both sides know damn well is just a starting talking point). You leak it to the media because you know the narrative will be “look how incompetent management is with their insulting offer” so Boras can come back and say “see how ridiculous this offer is, now move first and tell me how much better you can do” That’s business, that’s negotiability, no one is getting insulted, so let’s just stop with that. It’s not a real thing. In the name of intellectual debate just please drop that archaic stupid argument. It’s been put out there that Bogaerts would have taken the Story contract in spring training. If this is true then it’s obvious the Sox drastically under estimated Bogaerts market and royally f***ed this up. I mean, they definitely messed it up, but to what degree is yet to be determined….unless of course you’re a boras stooge. But hey! Here’s a nice consolation prize for you. By regurgitating Boras talking points you’re indirectly contributing to the proliferation of baseball player salary inflation. As a matter of fact one could say you may be ever so slightly responsible for Betts, and Bogaerts being gone….so give yourself a pat on the back and thank you very much. Ok the last paragraph may be a bit of a stretch. But everything else is spot on. The crying of “they insulted him with their offer” narrative really really really really needs to die.

I think he was, I think the Sox legitimately wanted to work a deal out. They misjudged his market, or the market, and had no ambition to match $280 million. The fact that they didn’t resign him doesn’t mean he isn’t or wasn’t a priority. It just means they failed.

I’m with it. I’ll make some flyers haha

Ok who is starting the petition????

She’s about two times richer than cohen too. She’s also a woman, are there any woman owners? Could be a selling point.