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No one is arguing this trade was a win for Boston at this point. And probably hasn’t since maybe mid-April. I get why Breslow made the deal. I get why Atlanta did as well. I understood all that in December. I no longer think this is a slam dunk good deal for Boston like I did then, although I have more faith in Grissom than many others and think the Sox can recoup something.

Per BTV, Garret Crochet to Boston for Kristian Campbell and Wilyer Abreu is a fair trade. Crochet has two years left, but is upfront about wanting an extension. Granted, at this point in time BTV severely undervalues Campbell, giving him a surplus value of $17.1 mill. This makes him far less valuable than even Abreu ($28.6mill). Disregarding this little flaw - fair trade? Would you do it? Would Chicago, in your opinion?

So the negativity is more of a prediction than what you think they should do? I mean, at one point someone agreed that waiting until 2026 was a good idea or the right plan.

I’ve said it a million times about Sale and a few other. - Sale’s problem is not talent. What were your thoughts on Sale from 2020 through 2022? I was one of the few optimistic ones about him, and was repeatedly told “you can’t count on Sale.” Were you optimistic about Sale in that timeframe? Or among those who thought they couldn’t count on him?

Jon Lester?

I would agree if Sale was a contributor to that depth and not a reason to need even more of it. A starting pitcher who gives you 150 IP over 4 years is not a pitching depth solution; he’s part of the problem. If Sale made significantly less money, or Henry was still spending, this can be easily handled by other means. But the Sox needed IP, and Sale had failed them multiple times in that department…

Then why did his end to 2023 matter? It was only 40 IP. And even if Sale was healthy, he was 34 then. And he hadn’t been an effective pitcher since he was what? 29? Maybe 30? Sure they could have kept Sale and hoped for a decent performance. Maybe he holds it together. Think he could give the Sox 185-195 IP with an ERA in the 4.40 range? Would that have helped this team? If you think so, that’s an average season for Lucas Giolito.

As opposed to “sunk cost” arguments on a player who clearly wasn’t sunk cost. Or “then why did Atlanta” arguments that have been answered multiple times? Want to know why the Braves were willing to take a chance on Sale? Because they knew. Because witchcraft!! Is that what you need to hear? Sale’s comeback is unprecedented in MLB history in multiple ways. The Sox lacked pitching depth. They desperately needed IP to relieve a bullpen load that was going to be burdened by a staff of young SP. If you needed an innings eater, would Chris Sale really have been your choice?

Atlanta made the trade because it was a worthwhile gamble. Boston paid the bulk of the biggest risk - the salary. And Atlanta had and still has plenty of pitching depth to cover any Sale injury. It’s a safe bet Breslow asked for a young pitching prospect in return, but Atlanta didn’t comply. Maybe they felt Sale might not add to their depth. Sale was healthy at the end of 2021. How did that work out? Thats 100 percent dependent on the injury. If you want to claim that sweeping generalization as a medical fact, I would demand proof. And Sale had some freak injuries, but not all of them were. Some were baseball issues.

Sale gave the Sox 102 IP with a 4.30ERA sandwiched around a shoulder injury, but the Sox should have foreseen the comeback at age 35. 27yo Tanner Houck has given the Sox 164 IP with a 3.12 ERA, but he’s a fungible mid-rotation starter. Ftom 2020-23, Sale pitched 150 IP, but the Sox should have foreseen keeping him in the rotation. Ftom 2021-23, Garrett Whitlock pitched 223 IP, but the Sox refuse to learn their lesson that he’s not durable enough for the rotation.

How was there a DRCENT CHANCE Sale would have a good 2024? Because he threw 40 acceptable innings at the end of 2023? He did that in 2021 as well, and followed it up with FIVE INNINGS PITCHED in 2022. But two years older at age 35, and there was a decent chance at a comeback? Atlanta wasn’t taking the same chance as Boston. Sale was a $10mill gamble to them, not a $27.5mill gamble. They extended him because they had to in order to get Sale to approve the deal. If they didn’t have to, they possibly wouldn’t have. At least not within 3 days of the trade.

If the Sox could have moved David Price, but without trading Mookie, should they have?

Why wait for the kids? If the Sox merely kept Sale, they’re how many games better? What’s Sale worth over Cooper Criswell? That tells you how close they are NOW. It’s not like Anthony, Mayer and Teel (yes, it sounds like a law firm) are all going to hit the ground running in 2026. And it’s not like any topflight starter for 2025 will be washed up by then or departed into free agency. In fact, it would be a shrewd business move to invest in a (healthy) pitcher this off-season Wait a year and the pitcher only gets pricier. What’s the downside? Worse 2026 draft pick, dropping from 17th to 23rd? I think the Sox can survive that…

So we’re trying to think like ownership and being admittedly stupid? That’s condescending. Fair, but condescending. An ace would clearly help this team. It’s the quickest of quick fixes. As the Sox do not have one now or on the immediate horizon, they have two options. Free agency and trades. We as fans greatly prefer free agency. After all, it’s only money. And more specifically, it’s someone else’s money. But, with absolutely no proof, I strongly believe owners prefer trades. And don’t care as much about those prospects, many of whom are not packing the seats and have little to no impact on the bottom line. And many never will. I have no idea what top tier starters will be available this offseason. Garret Crochet will. Not sure who else if anyone. But this is the type of player the Sox should move on. Corban Burnes will cost $240-$257 mill over 8-10 years, and then flame out in 3 or 4, if his new team is lucky. And if that new team is Boston, he’ll be packaged off with Roman Anthony in a cost-cutting move that will ultimately kill spending, possibly forever. Per BTV, Crochet’s value is less than Mayer or Anthony right now. Obviously the White Sox jump at Anthony, but I hope this means he costs less. A package centered around Wilyer Abreu will NOT do it. But in the end, I expect any trade for Crochet (or equivalent) to be like a Marriott Courtyard - pricey and uncomfortable. But, hey, it’s only prospects.

In a sport where teams almost always all win between 40% and 60% of their games, it is. At 69-65, are the Sox in the race or not? Same record the Diamondbacks had last year, FYI And waiting until 2026 would be stupid. What happens then to change the pitching situation? Considering that the Sox could have been MUCH better this year had they simply not traded Sale, one might consider some evidence of how close they really are. As opposed to whining about the Sale trade and attaching meaningless numbers to the current staff to make up excuses for procrastinating. “Oh well. We don’t have a true number 2.” That comment alone is a true number 2.

Every Sox forum on the internet has its share of Yankee fans, some of whom are trolls…

That doesn’t explain why you think they’re two years away. If the biggest issue is pitching, what’s this fix that’s going to hit in 2026? They don’t even have any major money coming off the books before then. Not that Henry would re-invest it anyway.

The Sox are competing NOW. Why won’t they be able to next season?

And season ticket holders should send the same message to him…

That would be incredibly stupid. This team was doing very well until the inexperienced starting pitching wore out and the lack of depth was exposed. And yet despite that, they’re still in the postseason hunt as September approaches. Why not fix what isn’t working now? Not like any of the top prospects fill their needs anyway. I see no reason for the procrastination…

And yet the Bosox have still given up 60 fewer runs.

That’s what Giolito probably is…

So the Sox should dial back the search for pitching until a future Hall of Famer hits the market?

Well they unload them, everyone freaks out…

They do get the White Sox for 3 more games. KC and Minny are both done with them. Hopefully those are the Sox 3 needed wins. Might be easier if the AAA Sox shut down Crochet for the season by that time…