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I hated the Price signing before the ink was dry. It turned out to be more like $174 mill for 2 seasons and some change. LA picked up some of the tab…

Nobody ever said it would. The outcome matters, but so does the process that gets you there. After all, the same people who made that decision will make future ones. I’d rather have a CBO whose unlucky than stupid.

Not to mention, his TJ was over 4 years ago. Most of us on this board aren’t doctors, but we’ve all seen enough pitchers recover from the surgery so that we have a solid grasp of the timeline…

You do realize no one thinks the Sox did well in this trade. Not even Breslow. But did it make sense at the time? You remember, back when you said you were not sorry to see Sale go, you just wish the Sox also didn’t post $17mill?

Tommy John surgery does NOT strengthen the elbow beyond its original strength, much to the dismay of all those middle school baseball parents who elected to have their sons have the procedure unnecessarily in order to get better radar gun readings and in turn scholarships and/or signing bonuses. This was a real medical issue in the early 2000s…

Well that’s a misinterpretation of everything I’ve said. Theres a massive difference between predicting injuries and expecting injuries. And if a player was injured and missed all of 2020, and then got injured and missed most of 2021. And 2022. And 2023. Are the Sox supposed to think he’s clear for 2024? And you made.a point once about Casas’ recovery from pulling a muscle swinging a bat, and how it didn’t bode well for his recovery. Well, Sale once cracked a rib throwing a pitch. But that gets overlooked?

I doubt Atlanta thought he was no risk at all. There’s been talk about the risk of injury on Sale since he was drafted. And probably before…

Because Romy would dump you! He’d do it in a heartbeat!

Priester?

Yes, Hill was DFAd…

No. I believe the front office considered Sale a high, possibly very high risk for more missed time. And at $27mill, it was too much for them to simply replace him. As the most significant injury, that made him most likely to be the dead money on the roster. And most of us felt this way, too, if you go back and read the early posts on this thread. Then Sale showed up healthy and suddenly the cries were “why did we trade him?” And “past injuries can’t predict future ones.” That’s the logic that keeps putting Whitlock in the rotation every year. The trade has turned out disastrous for the Sox. Some of us just remember how it looked in December…

Early in the off-season, it also is about valuing them over Rule 5 eligible players…

WAR projections are based on past performances and expected growth or decline. They cannot predict injuries. Steamer600 has never put out a projection that says “Will not play in 202X, as he will tear his ACL.”

Then suggest another topic…

If the Sox trade rostered players, then it’s easiest if they are one for one deals. Other teams can be hesitant adding too many players to the 40-man when they have roster crunch issues…

I have no medical opinion on Giolito and never did, although someone might have. If his injury that lead to a ligament tear had already started, that is on Boston and their (lack of a complete?) physical.

Ok, but how did they project him before 2021, 2022 and 2023? The risk with Sale wasn’t necessarily about pitching well…

Agreed Sale had the higher ceiling . But Giolito was the one with the actual floor…

The “couldn’t count on him” was something often said on these boards. In the off-season before 2022 and 2023, I said the season depends heavily on Sale, which was universally countered with “you can’t count on Sale”. And both years, that turned out to be correct. None of those other pitchers impacted the budget like Sale did. Not even combined. Hopefully you’re not arguing Sale and Giolito posed equal risks…

And when I disagree with mvp, it often devolves into something off-topic, irrelevant, and irreverent…

That’s 100% speculation on your part. And I’m willing to go higher…

What reason did they have to believe he would be healthy? From 2020-2023, Sale pitched fewer innings than Michael Pineda, an oft-injured pitcher who retired 2 years ago due to frequent injuries. There was zero reasons to think Sale would bounce back at age 35. Sale ended 2023 on the mound, but he didn’t pitch worthy injury. He had a shoulder issue. Sure, you can say past injuries don’t predict future ones. But with pitchers, this doesn’t necessarily apply to shoulder and elbow issues. Worth noting Sale ended 2021 healthy, and followed up in 2022 with 5 IP. As explained multiple times, Atlanta was in a better position to gamble. If Sale went down again, what was Boston’s Plan B? We still don’t know 140 games later. Atlanta had numerous MLB-ready pitching prospects, none of whom were included in the return package. (I hope Breslow asked, and it seems like he should have.) In fact, it’s possible they viewed Sale as someone to merely pick up some innings while the younger arms adjusted. Atlanta also knew it was a risk. They made Boston pay the bulk of the salary. When Sale wanted a contract to approve the trade, rather than pick up his option, they took an opportunity to lower the AAV. Really his first year money once Boston made their payment left Atlanta paying roughly the same salary range most teams pay to pitchers recovering from TJ, such as what Boston paid Paxton. Pineda and Drew Smyly had similar deals, too. Atlanta was just taking a similar gamble, but with giving up a player they couldn’t accommodate with a starting position. It’s worked out great for them so far. Of course, if Sale was injured again this year, we’d all be looking at this like we dumped our biggest problem on another team…

I saw Pete Crow-Armstrong take off his hemet and use it as an extension when sliding into second (a move that is completely illegal)…

Nobody is on pace to win 100, but one team is on pace to lose 125. The White Sox are so bad that they have already clinched being 17 games out of FOURTH place. And it’s only September 5th!!