A Realistic View at the 2027 Red Sox Part I

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Policing who is or who is not a fan is not a good look.

I just dont want complacency to get rewarded.

And no, it has nothing to do with BLoom.

I was mad that we didnt get 2 out of Bregman, Alonso, Schwarber.  And I think that was a multi-year set back.

I think Brez screwed the pooch.

Some are happy now as low bar fans just to have a winning record, and make the postseason, after a tough stretch after 2019 except for 2021. I don’t know if Brez screwed the pooch, but he did Botch the Bregman negotiations right from the start, and instead of his bat to go with Con Man he turned to Ranger, and even paid him more PDV. Another bat was solely needed especially as it turned out after little A didn’t live up to expectations, and took a paid vacation to Florida instead.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I do not think I am alone in being frustrated, why would you just assume that?
 

Who is the talk of "complacency" directed at?

Posters? Who?

Brez? He's that farthest thing from complacent. Go ahead an claim incompetent, but he's the anti-Mr. Complacent.

Forgive me if I assumed you feel too many posters are content with standing pat or making just a couple minor tweaks as being the complacent ones. If you meant Brez, see my previous paragraph.

 

[drewski6]

Just now, notin said:

Teams are trying in the AL.  The White Sox just made one of the biggest turnarounds in MLB history.  You don’t do that without trying.  The problem with the AL tjis year is a lot of the big spender teams got burned by their payroll, and the AL does have some clearly talented small market front offices that win without spending, and to many fans, spending is trying…

Would the Red Sox's record have made it to the postseason had we been in the NL?

The answer is NO

Its an extremely weak AL. Thats why the WS made it and thats why we made it.

[notin]

8 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Its a K or HR league, your 5'5 guy who plays a solid 3b is not worth marrying. Hes a great backup.

You hate short people!!  You’re an anti-heightite!!

Seinfeld references aside, your positions on short players are going to get you some nasty text messages from Jose Altuve…

[notin]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Would the Red Sox's record have made it to the postseason had we been in the NL?

The answer is NO

Its an extremely weak AL. Thats why the WS made it and thats why we made it.

Weak doesn’t mean “not trying”…

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Who is the talk of "complacency" directed at?

Posters? Who?

Brez? He's that farthest thing from complacent. Go ahead an claim incompetent, but he's the anti-Mr. Complacent.

Forgive me if I assumed you feel too many posters are content with standing pat or making just a couple minor tweaks as being the complacent ones. If you meant Brez, see my previous paragraph.

 

My friends tell me all the time, that they would prefer to keep the guys they have and lose then get better guys then win.  Becuase they think that turnaround is just around the corner.  ITs homerism.

I was the only one cheered moving RWill for Jrue.  Everyone else was mad.  When you see a trade and you are worried about who we gave up....Thats homerism.  

When I see a trade, I get excited. I like churn.

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

You hate short people!!  You’re an anti-heightite!!

Seinfeld references aside, your positions on short players are going to get you some nasty text messages from Jose Altuve…

I think that having guys like Durbin is the reason why we finished 23rd in runs.  I dont think walks and singles are the way to build your offense in 2026.  I dont think Durbin will ever be a guy we can count on for a lot of extra base hits. If he has 65 next year, he'll make a fan out of me.  

Im not stubborn. I use to hate Duran then I turned into one of his biggest defenders.

[drewski6]

Im pretty fluid.  You know the ole saying....Dumb-dumbs think they have it all figured out, intelligent peopel are always second guessing.

Im very much open to the possibility that Im dead wrong.

But right now, I dont like singles and walks.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Some are happy now as low bar fans just to have a winning record, and make the postseason, after a tough stretch after 2019 except for 2021. I don’t know if Brez screwed the pooch, but he did Botch the Bregman negotiations right from the start, and instead of his bat to go with Con Man he turned to Ranger, and even paid him more PDV. Another bat was solely needed especially as it turned out after little A didn’t live up to expectations, and took a paid vacation to Florida instead.

I don't disagree on "botching" Bregman, but no way he deserved that much, Suarez was a better dollar for dollar deal but it missed the target we needed to be aiming at. I'll still take Durbin & Suarez over Bregman & Harrison for the 5 years.

Also, why does what ATL paid Sale in year one so very important, but you neglect Suarez made $7M in 2026 ($10M with $3M bonus,) and now PDV is your go too number that counts?

Bregman made $35M in 2026 with $15M deferred. Do the math. That's $20M to Suarez $10M year one. "The Cubs got Fleeced!" LOL

Bregman got $175M/5 with $70M deferred

Suarez got $130M/5 and Durbin is pre-arb.

Can you try to answer just one question for once?

Who are the "some are happy?"

[notin]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

My friends tell me all the time, that they would prefer to keep the guys they have and lose then get better guys then win.  Becuase they think that turnaround is just around the corner.  ITs homerism.

I was the only one cheered moving RWill for Jrue.  Everyone else was mad.  When you see a trade and you are worried about who we gave up....Thats homerism.  

When I see a trade, I get excited. I like churn.

I am all for making moves, but not for the sake of making moves.

Baseball is a game in which teams play a 162 game season and everyone finishes winning between 40% and 60% of the time.  And teams falling outside that range rarely fall outside it by much.  So to think teams need an overhaul to go from winning 54% to 58%  is moves for the sake of moves.  Tweaks, better health, and players simply playing better overall is usually enough for most teams.   It’s a tight range to begin with.
 

I can’t get worked up about 5 playoff games spread out across 2 seasons. It’s hard to even consider them the same team. And It’s a small sample, no matter what.  
 

Also, like it or not, focusing pitching and defense is not “complacency.” Someone having a different philosophy than you on how to construct a baseball team is not “complacency.”

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Everytime I suggest a move and the Sox don't make it, you say I was wrong. Are you seriously denying this?

Yes, we've gone through this several times. I explain how suggestions are not predictions, but you say nothing I ever want happens and I'm wrong. Denying you do this nonstop is something that certainly happens.

One last funny: You say I'm always wrong, but agreed with me on wanting Alonso, and say you didn't call that wrong. I see your math skills rival your reading comp  skills.

Okay, one more: I didn't want Bregman at that cost, and we didn't pay it. I guess I was wrong here, too, right?

Do you think it makes you less wrong if you suggest something instead than predicting something? It doesn’t. One is just as wrong as the other. I agree with you on Bregman at 5 years, but like I said at his 3 year deal that the years were right, but the money was too high. The Red Sox could have used Bregman’s bat this past season, and would have been better off than with DUBin. 3 years yes, and 5 years no. We had already agreed on Alonso, so that wasn’t what I was referring too on you being wrong. Of course you saw it that way.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, notin said:

I am all for making moves, but not for the sake of making moves.

Baseball is a game in which teams play a 162 game season and everyone finishes winning between 40% and 60% of the time.  And teams falling outside that range rarely fall outside it by much.  So to think teams need an overhaul to go from winning 54% to 58%  is moves for the sake of moves.  Tweaks, better health, and players simply playing better overall is usually enough for most teams.   It’s a tight range to begin with.
 

I can’t get worked up about 5 playoff games spread out across 2 seasons. It’s hard to even consider them the same team. And It’s a small sample, no matter what.  
 

Also, like it or not, focusing pitching and defense is not “complacency.” Someone having a different philosophy than you on how to construct a baseball team is not “complacency.”

Winning record, making postseason, and winning in postseason in order of importance.

[notin]

11 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I think that having guys like Durbin is the reason why we finished 23rd in runs.  I dont think walks and singles are the way to build your offense in 2026.  I dont think Durbin will ever be a guy we can count on for a lot of extra base hits. If he has 65 next year, he'll make a fan out of me.  

Im not stubborn. I use to hate Duran then I turned into one of his biggest defenders.

Only 65 extra base hits? That’s all he has to do?

Only 24 hitters in all of MLB had that many.  And it’s your bare minimum?

[notin]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Winning record, making postseason, and winning in postseason in order of importance.

Holy f***! I think I agree with Old Red on something.

i need a drink…

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I think that having guys like Durbin is the reason why we finished 23rd in runs.  I dont think walks and singles are the way to build your offense in 2026.  I dont think Durbin will ever be a guy we can count on for a lot of extra base hits. If he has 65 next year, he'll make a fan out of me.  

Im not stubborn. I use to hate Duran then I turned into one of his biggest defenders.

Every team has a few Durbins.

I'm all for upgrading the weakest areas, and the more the better. 

I don't see a career 100 OPS+ player after his first two seasons in MLB who makes himself into a plus due to GG type defense and decent baserunning as the first or even second guy on the team to try and upgrade. His pre-arb cost and hopeful progression as he nears prime are two more reason I'd prefer to upgrade at SS and DH/LF than 3B. (He is third on my list for an upgrade on 0, but I think we can win with him, if we add DLC & Suzuki or Sato and Abrams.

Duran needs to go. I'd do everything to dump Story and Yoshida without downright DFA'ing them. (They'd be okay on the bench.) I'm not confident enough in handing Arias the SS job, but I know some here are. I don't think they believe in him out of a sense of complacency, but they actually think he's better than you and I do. Just like you thought Duran was better than I did. (I would call you complacent or not wanting better, because you believed in Duran. You just got that one wrong.)

Some of us value defense and positional comparative values more than others. They simply think Durbin, Abrea and Rafaela are better at helping us to win than you and Fred do. We all want the Sox to win, well all but you and Fred, and some think there are different ways to get there.

We've gone 8 years without a ring. I went over 30 years before 2004 and sounded a lot like you and Fred for 30 years. I literally said many time, "I'll take 10 straight last place finishes for just one ring." It sounds like you are thinking like that now. Fred was thinking like that in May.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Winning record, making postseason, and winning in postseason in order of importance.

I looked your order and thought you can't have one without the other.

Then I remembered Houston finished .500, and that was how the West was won.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Do you think it makes you less wrong if you suggest something instead than predicting something? It doesn’t. One is just as wrong as the other. I agree with you on Bregman at 5 years, but like I said at his 3 year deal that the years were right, but the money was too high. The Red Sox could have used Bregman’s bat this past season, and would have been better off than with DUBin. 3 years yes, and 5 years no. We had already agreed on Alonso, so that wasn’t what I was referring too on you being wrong. Of course you saw it that way.

We just see things in opposite ways.

To me, a suggestion is wrong when I suggest we sign a guy and he sucks. It has zero to do with whether Brez did as I suggest or not. (For one thing, I didn't suggest it to him, and he never reads my posts.)

I rarely predict any tardes or signings. I predict our win totals and each year i make projections on players' OPS. I am wrong on many, close on many and almost right on a few.

So, you wanted Bregman at 3 years and he got 5. By your logic you were wrong.

So, you agree we were both wrong on suggesting we get Alonso, since Brez didn't sign him? (I don't see it that way.) Reread your first two sentences and tell me you were wrong on Alonso or wrong on that point.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I looked your order and thought you can't have one without the other.

Then I remembered Houston finished .500, and that was how the West was won.

I'll tell you, nobody in HOU viewed finishing .500 and making the playoffs a success.

I'm huge on playoff success being the most valuable, but I'm never going to go mental over a two game sample size and make definitive judgements about a team or specific players.

[notin]

16 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Do you think it makes you less wrong if you suggest something instead than predicting something? It doesn’t. One is just as wrong as the other. I agree with you on Bregman at 5 years, but like I said at his 3 year deal that the years were right, but the money was too high. The Red Sox could have used Bregman’s bat this past season, and would have been better off than with DUBin. 3 years yes, and 5 years no. We had already agreed on Alonso, so that wasn’t what I was referring too on you being wrong. Of course you saw it that way.

Absolutely true, unless you have more than one functioning brain cell.  “Suggesting” and “predicting” are different words with different meanings.  If you doubt me, consult any dictionary.

When you take Mrs Old Red out to dinner at a fancy 5 star restaurant, and the dessert menu comes around and you say “I suggest the tira misu.  It’s excellent here.”  Does the Mrs look at you with contempt and say “well you’re f***ing wrong.  I’m having the vanilla bean cheesecake!”  
 

Were you really incorrect? You didn’t predict she would want the tira misu, you just pointed out that it was excellent and was a very good candidate to fulfill her dessert needs.  You weren’t even pointing out the inadequacies of the vanilla bean cheesecake. (there are none.  Your wife made a good choice for once. 😉)  

And that is why “suggesting” and “predicting” are different.  I should know; I will do a large  share of each this off-season. 

Right after I fulfill my newfound craving for vanilla bean cheesecake…

 

 

[notin]

9 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I looked your order and thought you can't have one without the other.

Then I remembered Houston finished .500, and that was how the West was defaulted.

FTFY

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Absolutely true, unless you have more than one functioning brain cell.  “Suggesting” and “predicting” are different words with different meanings.  If you doubt me, consult any dictionary.

When you take Mrs Old Red out to dinner at a fancy 5 star restaurant, and the dessert menu comes around and you say “I suggest the tira misu.  It’s excellent here.”  Does the Mrs look at you with contempt and say “well you’re f***ing wrong.  I’m having the vanilla bean cheesecake!”  
 

Were you really incorrect? You didn’t predict she would want the tira misu, you just pointed out that it was excellent and was a very good candidate to fulfill her dessert needs.  You weren’t even pointing out the inadequacies of the vanilla bean cheesecake. (there are none.  Your wife made a good choice for once. 😉)  

And that is why “suggesting” and “predicting” are different.  I should know; I will do a large  share of each this off-season. 

Right after I fulfill my newfound craving for vanilla bean cheesecake…

Ole Red has alternate meanings for words and phrases. He even said that one time.

I've also never met a person who misses the point of someone's statement at a 99% rate.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'll tell you, nobody in HOU viewed finishing .500 and making the playoffs a success.

I'm huge on playoff success being the most valuable, but I'm never going to go mental over a two game sample size and make definitive judgements about a team or specific players.

I will because I'm hearing or reading a lot today about how the Dodgers and Mookie Betts choked -- instead of how the Brewers just swept Skubal, Yamamoto, Snell and Glasnow.

Some Red Sox fans are expressing happiness that Betts lost because they feel like they won by Boston not paying him. To that I go to WAR.

Mookie's WAR in LA, 2020-2026: 36.5.

Do you know who leads the Red Sox in WAR this decade? Hint: he didn't even play for them this season. It's Devers, with 19 -- almost half of Betts' value. Next is Duran with 13. Then it's Bogaerts at 10.1.

That says it all about Boston star power in the 2020s.

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Ole Red has alternate meanings for words and phrases. He even said that one time.

I've also never met a person who misses the point of someone's statement at a 99% rate.

That’s because your points, and my points are different points entirely.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

That’s because your points, and my points are different points entirely.

Were we right or wrong on Alonso?

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That’s because your points, and my points are different points entirely.

I say the sky is blue. You respond, I was wrong about the water being cold.

It's not about having different veiw points, which we do. It's about you not being able to follow the meanings of points being made.

[Old Red]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Absolutely true, unless you have more than one functioning brain cell.  “Suggesting” and “predicting” are different words with different meanings.  If you doubt me, consult any dictionary.

When you take Mrs Old Red out to dinner at a fancy 5 star restaurant, and the dessert menu comes around and you say “I suggest the tira misu.  It’s excellent here.”  Does the Mrs look at you with contempt and say “well you’re f***ing wrong.  I’m having the vanilla bean cheesecake!”  
 

Were you really incorrect? You didn’t predict she would want the tira misu, you just pointed out that it was excellent and was a very good candidate to fulfill her dessert needs.  You weren’t even pointing out the inadequacies of the vanilla bean cheesecake. (there are none.  Your wife made a good choice for once. 😉)  

And that is why “suggesting” and “predicting” are different.  I should know; I will do a large  share of each this off-season. 

Right after I fulfill my newfound craving for vanilla bean cheesecake…

 

 

NNN is talking about functional brain cells? Seriously? NO one has ever said suggestions, and predictions aren’t different. What I said is that one can be just as wrong as the other, and not less wrong especially in MOOn’s case who thinks he’s less wrong by trying to differentiate that he’s only suggesting when things don’t happen.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Were we right or wrong on Alonso?

I’ve already answered that.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I say the sky is blue. You respond, I was wrong about the water being cold.

It's not about having different veiw points, which we do. It's about you not being able to follow the meanings of points being made.

As I keep saying most times I don’t answer how you want me to answer, because? You guessed it. Just when you think you know the answer I had already changed the question.🙃

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

I’ve already answered that.

Red: Do you think it makes you less wrong if you suggest something instead than predicting something? It doesn’t. One is just as wrong as the other. 

We must both be wrong, but I thought you said we were both right. 

I get it now, one is as wrong as the other, unless it is red's opinion, too.

Got it.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

 I had already changed the question.🙃

Yes, into some other meaning. You finally got it right.

Admitting your problem is the first step to recovery.

Good luck on your journey to recovery.