Red Sox front office did something right. They got rid of Devers.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

The plan was Casas.

The crazy part is no one ever said his move to 1b would be permanent.  Certainly no one knew how long Casas would be out….

Huh? Casas was already hurt. They didn’t know how long Casas would be out? They certainly knew he wasn’t coming back for the rest of the year, and most likely part of this year. It wasn’t a big problem before for the Red Sox, and that’s why the Red Sox tried Arroyo, and Franchy. Raffy saw that, so he was more than justified in telling bresLOW to do his job, and find a 1B. Cora felt the same way IMO.

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Casas.

I know but Casas went down.  I was asking what his plan was once Casas went down. 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

I rest my case....

You didn’t have a case.🙈

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, notin said:

Certainly no one knew how long Casas would be out….

I said from day one that he may never get back to MLB or at least be a shell of himself when he does. Since they brought in Contreras this offseason, I don't think they were counting on him coming back at all either. 

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I said from day one that he may never get back to MLB or at least be a shell of himself when he does. Since they brought in Contreras this offseason, I don't think they were counting on him coming back at all either. 

Yes, and as I said they KNEW he definitely wasn’t coming back last year, and not counting on him this year, and even to get back as a DH even looks iffy when he gets hurt just swinging a bat.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I know but Casas went down.  I was asking what his plan was once Casas went down. 

The same plan they had the past few years when they were just sticking someone there hoping it might work out. Same as they did at 2B a few years ago when 11 different 2B played musical chairs. Now if you want to say that wasn’t a plan I’m with you.

[Hugh2]

Just now, Old Red said:

The same plan they had the past few years when they were just sticking someone there hoping it might work out. Same as they did at 2B a few years ago when 11 different 2B played musical chairs. Now if you want to say that wasn’t a plan I’m with you.

My point is plans change and you adjust on the fly.  When injuries rack up, you can't go with your plan A. 

I don't blame Devers for not wanting to play 1B but I look at it like this.  If I do job xyz at work, and the guy who does abc gets injured and they ask me to do his job for a few weeks I don't get as insulted as I would have if they asked me for zero reason. I would make the move under those circumstances, because I'm a team player. 

They didn't ask Devers to move to 1B to just f*** with him, they had a plethora of injuries last year and they were trying to optimize the lineup because the point of baseball is to win games.  Rafael showed us he is not a team player last year.  When you're the highest paid guy on a team....thats' a very bad look.  

It's also easy to say Cora implented his own plan when he didn't have Devers on the roster.  Anyone would have a plan that didn't involve Devers at 1B if he's not on the roster. 

[Hugh2]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I said from day one that he may never get back to MLB or at least be a shell of himself when he does. Since they brought in Contreras this offseason, I don't think they were counting on him coming back at all either. 

Casas certainly has every right to play his ass off and come back strong.  But I don't think anyone on earth is counting on him anymore.  

If he ever does it will be a nice story, but he's fallen out of the planning discussion. 

[notin]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

My point is plans change and you adjust on the fly.  When injuries rack up, you can't go with your plan A. 

I don't blame Devers for not wanting to play 1B but I look at it like this.  If I do job xyz at work, and the guy who does abc gets injured and they ask me to do his job for a few weeks I don't get as insulted as I would have if they asked me for zero reason. I would make the move under those circumstances, because I'm a team player. 

They didn't ask Devers to move to 1B to just f*** with him, they had a plethora of injuries last year and they were trying to optimize the lineup because the point of baseball is to win games.  Rafael showed us he is not a team player last year.  When you're the highest paid guy on a team....thats' a very bad look.  

It's also easy to say Cora implented his own plan when he didn't have Devers on the roster.  Anyone would have a plan that didn't involve Devers at 1B if he's not on the roster. 

My point on this for a long time, just never expressed as easily…

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

My point is plans change and you adjust on the fly.  When injuries rack up, you can't go with your plan A. 

I don't blame Devers for not wanting to play 1B but I look at it like this.  If I do job xyz at work, and the guy who does abc gets injured and they ask me to do his job for a few weeks I don't get as insulted as I would have if they asked me for zero reason. I would make the move under those circumstances, because I'm a team player. 

They didn't ask Devers to move to 1B to just f*** with him, they had a plethora of injuries last year and they were trying to optimize the lineup because the point of baseball is to win games.  Rafael showed us he is not a team player last year.  When you're the highest paid guy on a team....thats' a very bad look.  

It's also easy to say Cora implented his own plan when he didn't have Devers on the roster.  Anyone would have a plan that didn't involve Devers at 1B if he's not on the roster. 

My point is that 1B had been a problem for three years in a row, and the Red Sox just stuck someone there like Arroyo, and Franchy who hadn’t played there before, and they were going to try it again. That was all, because of injuries too, so it was NO more a problem last year then it was the two years before that. Raffy did what he was told he went to DH, and put his glove away. IMO putting Raffy at 1B would have weakened the team at two positions 1B, and DH. I think Raffy thought that, and I think Cora thought that. As I’ve said many times if Cora had told Raffy to go play 1B I’d have a different opinion but he didn’t. I think Raffy, and Cora knew what was best for the team, and bresLOW didn’t.

[notin]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

My point is that 1B had been a problem for three years in a row, and the Red Sox just stuck someone there like Arroyo, and Franchy who hadn’t played there before, and they were going to try it again. That was all, because of injuries too, so it was NO more a problem last year then it was the two years before that. Raffy did what he was told he went to DH, and put his glove away. IMO putting Raffy at 1B would have weakened the team at two positions 1B, and DH. I think Raffy thought that, and I think Cora thought that. As I’ve said many times if Cora had told Raffy to go play 1B I’d have a different opinion but he didn’t. I think Raffy, and Cora knew what was best for the team, and bresLOW didn’t.

And you complained about that plsn non-stop, and with good reason - it didn’t work.  So why are you repeatedly condoning that failed status quo? 

[notin]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

And you complained about that plsn non-stop, and with good reason - it didn’t work.  So why are you repeatedly condoning that failed status quo? 

And saying it weakened two positions is misleading.  Devers was still going to bat.  The choice for the Sox lineup was Devers (at 1b) and Yoshida (at DH) or Devers (at DH) and Abraham Toro (at 1b).  

The first one is the better option..

[Old Red]

Just now, notin said:

And you complained about that plsn non-stop, and with good reason - it didn’t work.  So why are you repeatedly condoning that failed status quo? 

Huh? OMG NNN! Where did I condone it? I just said that’s what the Red Sox continued to do, and it wasn’t any more a problem last year than it was the previous two years, and the Red Sox were just doing what they normally do. I agree it was a failure, and that’s why Raffy was JUSTIFIED to tell bresLOW to do his job. 

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

And saying it weakened two positions is misleading.  Devers was still going to bat.  The choice for the Sox lineup was Devers (at 1b) and Yoshida (at DH) or Devers (at DH) and Abraham Toro (at 1b).  

The first one is the better option..

DH would be weakened, and I know it would have been hard to comprehend for you, but Raffy could have been worse at 1B. Romy was fine there. Could have even affected Raffy’s hitting like DH did at first. The choice of Toro at 1B was, because bresLOW wasn’t doing his job. Good point you had there. Well done.👏

[notin]

Just now, Old Red said:

Huh? OMG NNN! Where did I condone it? I just said that’s what the Red Sox continued to do, and it wasn’t any more a problem last year than it was the previous two years, and the Red Sox were just doing what they normally do. I agree it was a failure, and that’s why Raffy was JUSTIFIED to tell bresLOW to do his job. 

You’ve done nothing but condone Devers’ behavior, including in the very response where you say you didn’t.

First base has been a mess.  And the Franchy Cordero/Abraham Toro types were never going to be anything but ineffective stopgaps (although Toro had his moments).

If you’re saying you think Devers was justified, you’re saying you believe the right path was the only one left - Abraham Toro.  It was like May 8th, so no one was trading the Sox a 1b. At that point in the season, only in-house players are an option. (Was Devers also justified in saying it was Breslow’s job to go get a 1b on May 8th?) 

The bottom line is Devers was asked to help his team due to injury and he refused. Many think this makes him a selfish player.  Do you think he was acting as a team player or a selfish one?

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

DH would be weakened, and I know it would have been hard to comprehend for you, but Raffy could have been worse at 1B. Romy was fine there. Could have even affected Raffy’s hitting like DH did at first. The choice of Toro at 1B was, because bresLOW wasn’t doing his job. Good point you had there. Well done.👏

So.....why is Devers playing 1B in San Francisco???

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

So.....why is Devers playing 1B in San Francisco???

We’ve already gone all over that a number of times already.🤔

[notin]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

DH would be weakened, and I know it would have been hard to comprehend for you, but Raffy could have been worse at 1B. Romy was fine there. Could have even affected Raffy’s hitting like DH did at first. The choice of Toro at 1B was, because bresLOW wasn’t doing his job. Good point you had there. Well done.👏

At best youre speculating.  And that can work both ways.  Maybe getting back on the field makes him a better hitter?  You have used a similar argument for Duran.

Romy is a role player that has never had a full time job and had only 20 games at first base in his  career.  And Cora clearly didn’t think he was a full time option because Cora had that option and didnt use it.

Toro is the type of player you get on a minor league deal.  What did you expect? Freddie Freeman to sit in Worcester waiting for an injury?

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

You’ve done nothing but condone Devers’ behavior, including in the very response where you say you didn’t.

First base has been a mess.  And the Franchy Cordero/Abraham Toro types were never going to be anything but ineffective stopgaps (although Toro had his moments).

If you’re saying you think Devers was justified, you’re saying you believe the right path was the only one left - Abraham Toro.  It was like May 8th, so no one was trading the Sox a 1b. At that point in the season, only in-house players are an option. (Was Devers also justified in saying it was Breslow’s job to go get a 1b on May 8th?) 

The bottom line is Devers was asked to help his team due to injury and he refused. Many think this makes him a selfish player.  Do you think he was acting as a team player or a selfish one?

Huh? OMG NNNN. Yes I agree with everything Raffy, and Cora said, and did. We’ve already gone all over that 100 times already. What I don’t condone is how the Red Sox didn’t have a better plan not only at 1B, or 2B as well prior to this year. The bottom line is Raffy didn’t refuse what Cora told him to do so once again I say to me Raffy, and Cora were justified in everything they said, and did, and that was what was BEST for the team.👋

[mvp 78]

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

The plan was for Raffy to DH, then Casas got hurt and the plan changed. 

Not the first time somethin like this has happened.

What doesn't happen often is a player refusing to play where he's need most.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not the first time somethin like this has happened.

What doesn't happen often is a player refusing to play where he's need most.

He was already playing where he was needed most. DH.🤫

[Hugh2]

43 minutes ago, Old Red said:

We’ve already gone all over that a number of times already.🤔

Oh have we now? 

So Raffy can't play 1B in Boston because Abraham Toro is an option and somehow Raffy at 1B bad bad bad....but then he goes to SF and somehow magically (and conveniently for your point) the calculus changes?

I don't buy it.  Raffy was stubborn and didn't want to do what was best for the team. Pretty clear cut and dry if you ask me. 

[notin]

10 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Oh have we now? 

So Raffy can't play 1B in Boston because Abraham Toro is an option and somehow Raffy at 1B bad bad bad....but then he goes to SF and somehow magically (and conveniently for your point) the calculus changes?

I don't buy it.  Raffy was stubborn and didn't want to do what was best for the team. Pretty clear cut and dry if you ask me. 

One could argue Cora didn’t either.  He seemed to try to avoid these types of discussions with Devers all along…

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, Old Red said:

He was already playing where he was needed most. DH.🤫

No, we want to take this BAD defensive 3b (worst in the league I was told) and he MUST play 1B! That's what is best for the team! 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Oh have we now? 

So Raffy can't play 1B in Boston because Abraham Toro is an option and somehow Raffy at 1B bad bad bad....but then he goes to SF and somehow magically (and conveniently for your point) the calculus changes?

I don't buy it.  Raffy was stubborn and didn't want to do what was best for the team. Pretty clear cut and dry if you ask me. 

This conversation has been going on since he was traded a little over a year ago. SF is a whole entirely different situation. Raffy went to a new team where he had no seniority, and where they already had a good incumbent 3B. If Abraham Toro was an option that is all on bresLOW. The SF manager might of asked him to play 1B, where the Boston manager DID NOT. Is that a calculus change? You don’t have to buy anything. Once again Cora his manager did not ask him to play 1B. You can call that stubborn, but I think Cora knew what was best for the team, and not you, or me, and I agree that was pretty clear cut, and dry if you ask me.

[mvp 78]

Just now, Old Red said:

This conversation has been going on since he was traded a little over a year ago.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

No, we want to take this BAD defensive 3b (worst in the league I was told) and he MUST play 1B! That's what is best for the team! 

That’s been regurgitated many times on here by some  amateur scouts that they pretend to be.

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, notin said:

One could argue Cora didn’t either.  He seemed to try to avoid these types of discussions with Devers all along…

I could see that.  I'm sure there's plenty of blame pie to go around but there was certainly permutations of the future (or past now I suppose) where Devers didn't get traded because he didn't act like a complete jackyll because of the whole thing. 

sometimes when we get into these arguments we find ourselves slowly painting ourselves into a corner making a point we weren't originally over concerned with. 

I never really cared too too much that Raffy didn't want to play 1st; I thought it was the opposite of selfless and he kind of handle childlike but it didn't bother me so much.  What got me going, was when s*** hit the fan people seemed overaly critical of the Sox even asking him to play 1B.....Like why wouldn't they ask him to? so dumb. 

[Hugh2]

 

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Lets start talking about Mookie Betts