Red Sox (Early) vs Reds (Lowder): 3/29/26, 1:40pm

[Maxbialystock]

2 minutes ago, king koji said:

Thanks for recapping the horror I already knew. If this was years ago Early would have finished the inning. Teams never lost games in the old days the way the Sox lost today. The height of stupidity just like all the analytics are.

What old days are you talking about?  The Sox have always been hitting centric.  Breslow is changing that, but in the process giving away hitting.  

[king koji]

4 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

What old days are you talking about?  The Sox have always been hitting centric.  Breslow is changing that, but in the process giving away hitting.  

Pitch count should be disregarded. Early should have pitched until he started to falter. The manager used to see it with his own eyes and know when to go to a reliever. Not this ******** we have today. Give away loss. Laughable

[jdc69]

5 minutes ago, king koji said:

Pitch count should be disregarded. Early should have pitched until he started to falter. The manager used to see it with his own eyes and know when to go to a reliever. Not this ******** we have today. Give away loss. Laughable

I was saying this last season and it looks like Cora strikes again. People will get on Weissert but I say a reliever wants to come in when hes needed, not to replace a guy who's already in a groove. 

[moonslav59]

That's a hard  way to lose a game and a series.

Suarez $15M/1 was too expensive for the Sox and "K's too much," people said.

[notin]

1 hour ago, king koji said:

Pitch count should be disregarded. Early should have pitched until he started to falter. The manager used to see it with his own eyes and know when to go to a reliever. Not this ******** we have today. Give away loss. Laughable

WTF are you talking about?

Early threw 96 pitches IN A GAME IN MARCH.   It’s one thing to be upset about the loss, but Weissert got beat by a hitter who has quietly put together a 300 HR career.  It happens.  
 

Also bullpens blew leads before analytics.  The Sox really needed more offense today.  Losing 2 out of 3 is rough, but it’s also 2 out of 3 road games to a playoff team from last year that does have good pitching. 

 

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

That's a hard  way to lose a game and a series.

Suarez $15M/1 was too expensive for the Sox and "K's too much," people said.

Who gives a s*** what fans said? Breslow didnt Sign him.  Honestly i don’t question that. Suarez has had a good career, but he’s not a 3b anymore so unless they signed him over trading for Contreras, I get it…

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, notin said:

Who gives a s*** what fans said? Breslow didnt Sign him.  Honestly i don’t question that. Suarez has had a good career, but he’s not a 3b anymore so unless they signed him over trading for Contreras, I get it…

I could have stomached Suarez at 3B for a season, but yes, 1B or DH would have been a better placement.

I'd much rather have gotten KMarte, Neto or Paredes than Suarez.

[king koji]

57 minutes ago, notin said:

WTF are you talking about?

Early threw 96 pitches IN A GAME IN MARCH.   It’s one thing to be upset about the loss, but Weissert got beat by a hitter who has quietly put together a 300 HR career.  It happens.  
 

Also bullpens blew leads before analytics.  The Sox really needed more offense today.  Losing 2 out of 3 is rough, but it’s also 2 out of 3 road games to a playoff team from last year that does have good pitching. 

 

 

This game was lost by a pitch-count quota. Period. Pure modern-day abject stupidity, aka  ( Modern Douchery) Ask anyone over 55. P.S. Your game sucks now.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, king koji said:

 

This game was lost by a pitch-count quota. Period. Pure modern-day abject stupidity ( Douchery) Ask anyone over 55. P.S. Your game sucks now.

Not going long into games on a pitchers first start of the season has been around for over 55 years.

[king koji]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not going long into games on a pitchers first start of the season has been around for over 55 years.

Can he stay in til they stop actually reaching base on him, not after a BALLS-Y Strikeout???!!!

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, king koji said:

Can he stay in til they stop actually reaching base on him, not after a BALLS-Y Strikeout???!!!

Nobody- not you or I know that answer to this.

He was at 96 pitches, and has let up a line shot single. One could argue, he shouldn't have come out for the 6th. (BTW, someone actually did reach base on him in the 6th, so you answered your own question.)

He came up to the bigs in SEPT 2025 and never went over 90 pitches. That was 4 regular season starts plus 1 playoff start. Now, in March, in his first start of the season he pitches more than ever before, and you want to say he was babied?

It's the age old question and criticism. Should the starter been left in longer or yanked earlier. Anyone who thinks they know the answer is kidding themselves.

[harmony]

54 minutes ago, king koji said:

 

This game was lost by a pitch-count quota. Period. Pure modern-day abject stupidity ( Douchery) Ask anyone over 55. P.S. Your game sucks now.

It's not so much about pitch count.

Starting pitchers historically went deep into games until statistical analyses showed that a fresh relief pitcher is generally more effective than a starter pitching a third or fourth time through the opponent's lineup.

The statistical edge reportedly continues to hold although fans will offer anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

One cost of the transition is that the bullpen now requires more roster slots to cover the additional workload.

[king koji]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Nobody- not you or I know that answer to this.

He was at 96 pitches, and has let up a line shot single. One could argue, he shouldn't have come out for the 6th. (BTW, someone actually did reach base on him in the 6th, so you answered your own question.)

He came up to the bigs in SEPT 2025 and never went over 90 pitches. That was 4 regular season starts plus 1 playoff start. Now, in March, in his first start of the season he pitches more than ever before, and you want to say he was babied?

It's the age old question and criticism. Should the starter been left in longer or yanked earlier. Anyone who thinks they know the answer is kidding themselves.

I guess I'm just too old (60)  for this game now.....sorry for cranky, and get off my lawn, LOL

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I could have stomached Suarez at 3B for a season, but yes, 1B or DH would have been a better placement.

I'd much rather have gotten KMarte, Neto or Paredes than Suarez.

I thought Marte might be moved regardless, but maybe only for some exorbitant price.  I wanted Paredes, but keeping Abreu looks like the smart move so far…

[king koji]

1 minute ago, harmony said:

It's not so much about pitch count.

Starting pitchers historically went deep into games until statistical analyses showed that a fresh relief pitcher is generally more effective than a starter pitching a third or fourth time through the opponent's lineup.

The statistical edge reportedly continues to hold although fans will offer anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

One cost of the transition is that the bullpen now requires more roster slots to cover the additional workload.

 

This is just a ridiculous loss today. If this is the case, start an opener and let Early pitch 3 thru 9. Sorry to old-time people. Baseball kinda sucks now......

 

[notin]

2 minutes ago, harmony said:

It's not so much about pitch count.

Starting pitchers historically went deep into games until statistical analyses showed that a fresh relief pitcher is generally more effective than a starter pitching a third or fourth time through the opponent's lineup.

The statistical edge reportedly continues to hold although fans will offer anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

One cost of the transition is that the bullpen now requires more roster slots to cover the additional workload.

But the pitch count has also shown itself an excellent control in minimizing injuries.  Especially important now because every pitcher throws 95 mph, something far, far fewer pitchers did in the Complete Game Era…

[notin]

Just now, king koji said:

 

This is just a ridiculous loss today. If this is the case, start an opener and let Early pitch 3 thru 9. Sorry to old-time people. Baseball kinda sucks now......

 

Some managers actually like that strategy.  Kevin Cash and Ned Yost used to do that kind of thing a lot.  Although usually more for innings 2-7 than 3-9…

[notin]

6 minutes ago, king koji said:

I guess I'm just too old (60)  for this game now.....sorry for cranky, and get off my lawn, LOL

Actually I think the bigger issue is that Breslow all but ignored the bullpen almost all offfseason.  From November until late March, his biggest add was Ryan Watson.  At the buzzer, he added vets Danny Coulombe and Tommy Kahnle, but Coulombe missed ST.  (Kahnle did, too, but at least he pitched in the WBC.)

 

[harmony]

12 minutes ago, notin said:

But the pitch count has also shown itself an excellent control in minimizing injuries.  Especially important now because every pitcher throws 95 mph, something far, far fewer pitchers did in the Complete Game Era…

The radar gun for pitches has contributed to the problem by quantifying a trait that previously had been more aesthetic. To their detriment, too many young pitchers aim for the higher numbers on the radar gun.

[Maxbialystock]

38 minutes ago, king koji said:

Can he stay in til they stop actually reaching base on him, not after a BALLS-Y Strikeout???!!!

What nonsense.  First and foremost, stats have been around as long as baseball has, only now they are even more sophisticated and predictive because of all kinds of data fed into comuters. 

There were 3 factors that caused Cora to make the sensible  decision to pull Early:  1)  96  pitches, which was way more than Crochet threw in his first start--80 pitches; 2) this was the third time through the Redleg batting order which is when opposiing lineups are the mostly likely to hit a starter;  3) the next two battters were righties which gave righty Wichert the advantage.  He threw a bunch of low pitches to walk batter #1.  Then he decided to go bold against a guy who hit 49 dingers last season and threw 3 straight pitches in the middle of the zone, the third of which he clobbered.  Then he got the next two guys easily with low strikes.  I think Weissert choked against his first two batters.  

Last season Weissert had an ERA of 2.82 with 17 holds, 3d best on the Sox. 

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, king koji said:

I guess I'm just too old (60)  for this game now.....sorry for cranky, and get off my lawn, LOL

I'm 67.

I miss the "good ole days," too, but this is the way of the game, now.

Within this context, I was actually surprised Early came out for the 6th, and when he let up the line drive single, I thought the hook was coming then & there.

If Weissert gets the out, nothing would have been mentioned.

[notin]

42 minutes ago, harmony said:

The radar gun for pitches has contributed to the problem by quantifying a trait that previously had been more aesthetic. To their detriment, too many young pitchers aim for the higher numbers on the radar gun.

Definitely.  High school kids know upper 90s leads to a bigger signing bonus or a better D-1 scholarship.  17-18 yo kids don’t need to bring that kind of heat to get high school hitters out, but they continually do it to guarantee a future that they’ve already started jeopardizing…

[Maxbialystock]

2 hours ago, king koji said:

 

This game was lost by a pitch-count quota. Period. Pure modern-day abject stupidity, aka  ( Modern Douchery) Ask anyone over 55. P.S. Your game sucks now.

I'm 85. I also taught field artillery gunnery at Fort Sill, so I value the ability to use data to predict outcomes. American field artillery started using weather and other data to achieve predicted fire in World War I over 100 years ago.  Predicting game outcomes and batter vs Hitter outcomes are a lot dicier than gunnery, but they are no less important.  

On the other hand, no data anywhere would have suggested Anthony would be hitless today with 2K's and  have  1 hit yesterday also with 2 K's.  Meanwhile, the worst hitter in all of  MLB got a single and a double today.  

 

[illinoisredsox]

5 hours ago, king koji said:

Pitch count should be disregarded. Early should have pitched until he started to falter. The manager used to see it with his own eyes and know when to go to a reliever. Not this ******** we have today. Give away loss. Laughable

Funny how you didn’t say a word until after the move didn’t work.

And what cost the Sox the game today was scoring 2 runs; that doesn’t cut it most of the time.

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Funny how you didn’t say a word until after the move didn’t work.

And what cost the Sox the game today was scoring 2 runs; that doesn’t cut it most of the time.

We had chances to score more. I hope this doesn't become a pattern.

[jdc69]

5 hours ago, harmony said:

It's not so much about pitch count.

Starting pitchers historically went deep into games until statistical analyses showed that a fresh relief pitcher is generally more effective than a starter pitching a third or fourth time through the opponent's lineup.

The statistical edge reportedly continues to hold although fans will offer anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

One cost of the transition is that the bullpen now requires more roster slots to cover the additional workload.

I read an article that showed that a batter may perform better after 3 times at bat against one pitcher, but that it is not because the pitcher is getting worse, its because a batter is zoning in better. On the contrary, the pitchers actual quality is continuing to rise. The writer came up with a way to differentiate between the quality of the pitches thrown and whether they are getting hit. He said that the time in the game when the quality of the pitching is at its worse is when they see the lineup the first time around.

So if that's true, bringing in a supposed "fresh" bullpen arm can also be bringing in a stiff, cold arm when the arm already warm can still be better despite batters getting better sometimes.

[Hugh2]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

That's a hard  way to lose a game and a series.

Suarez $15M/1 was too expensive for the Sox and "K's too much," people said.

Yeah, I figured this was coming.  What a crappy way to lose a series.  Still, it's March so..... Lets see were Suarez and Durbin are at by the end of the year. 

Abreu looks good, heck Mayer looks pretty good. I'm pretty sure Duran and Anthony are going to be fine, if Story gets going I think they offense will actually be fine. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 hours ago, jdc69 said:

 bringing in a supposed "fresh" bullpen arm can also be bringing in a stiff, cold arm when the arm already warm can still be better despite batters getting better sometimes.

This is a good point, especially in cold-weather games. On the other hand, good batters make adjustments the more they see starting pitchers. 

In the days before bullpens became a weapon, it's no surprise that legends like Williams and DiMaggio had their highest career OPS in their 4th at bats vs. starters.

But this series was an NL Central series. Boston's two new imports from that division -- and only offseason additions to the batting order -- Contreras and Durbin, went a combined 1-for-27. Perhaps Cincy and Francona's familiarity with them led to an effective game-plan to handle the pair. 

And no, signing Geno Suarez wouldn't have made much difference for the Red Sox, since then he'd never get to face Weissert. I'm not making fun of the Central, because Milwaukee has been a very good team this decade.

But the fact is it's been 10 years now since an NL Central club was in the World Series.

[Hugh2]

Early surely would have hit 100 pitches if they left him out there and it's still March.  Weissert had also had an excellent spring.  Hindsight is 20/20 folks.

 

ANYWHOOOOOOOOO This guy right here has tickets to opening day at Fenway this upcoming Friday. 

[mvp 78]

15 hours ago, king koji said:

Pitch count should be disregarded. Early should have pitched until he started to falter. The manager used to see it with his own eyes and know when to go to a reliever. Not this ******** we have today. Give away loss. Laughable

He's never thrown more than 120 IP in a year before. Having him throw 100 pitches in March is a recipe for disaster for Early if you want him pitching down the stretch.