Red Sox Sign 3B, 2B, SS, Isiah Kiner-Falefa

[JoeBrady]

58 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They didn't boycott when the team was a .500 team. Why would they boycott this year when the team is coming off a playoff run? Makes no sense. 

Fred also boycotted in 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Fred also boycotted in 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018.

If we hadn't banned him in 2012, we'd have posts to refer to. Oh well. 

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't think we were unlucky, last year. It was kinda normal, except that maybe most injuries were to SP'ers and 3 were basically lost for the whole year. These days, that's not all that abnormal.

I think we had better than average everyday player luck with injuries. I was shocked Story player 150+. I was not shocked Casas got hurt blowing a bubble.

Counting on normal injuries, we have the best rotation depth in MLB.

Our everyday depth is not great, but we have 4 OF'ers, where all 4 are better than most team's best 2. Our catcher depth is not good, but we added a couple okay AAA catchers. Our infield depth is not shallow, it's just not all that good, however, there is not much of a drop off from DHam to Sogard to Eaton. On hitting, there isn't much from IKF to those 3. 

My whole assumption is based on adding another infielder. If we don't. I'm worried.

Thats great.  I think I could pitch to this team and get through a couple innings.

[notin]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Pass and pass. Not a lot of untouchables for me, but I wouldn't move Witherspoon, Tolle, Early and hesitate on Phillips/Eyanson until I see what they have. Gray will be gone next year. Oviedo is already in his arb seasons. I don't believe in Bello going forward. I think the Sox need some high ceiling starters and they need to be identified internally if possible. 

Bello has always been my top choice to trade.  The Sox have 7 starters with MLB experience vying for 5 opening day slots, and should again have Houck at some point next year.  Bello is an attractive trade piece that l’d swap for numerous 2b or 3b options straight up.

I look at IKF as Mayer Insurance.  The big gripe about Mayer is he gets hurt every year.  So Breslow went out and got a Gold Glove third baseman.  Is that really a problem? 

[drewski6]

24 minutes ago, notin said:

Bello has always been my top choice to trade.  The Sox have 7 starters with MLB experience vying for 5 opening day slots, and should again have Houck at some point next year.  Bello is an attractive trade piece that l’d swap for numerous 2b or 3b options straight up.

I look at IKF as Mayer Insurance.  The big gripe about Mayer is he gets hurt every year.  So Breslow went out and got a Gold Glove third baseman.  Is that really a problem? 

I feel like as a sinkerballer, Bello, I wanted to trade him more yesterday than I do right now after IKF and clear prioritization of infield defense over offense.  Still not against moving him, I guess, hes just no longer the one I immediately circle.  

I personally have a hard time putting Tolle, Early, and Witherspoon in the same category.  Tolle to me is worth way more and much harder to part with. The arm/extension and reach, to me make his potential top.  I dont know much about Witherspoon, but regarding Early, I think that anybody who is moving Early above Tolle is buying too much into small sample sizes last year, just my opinion.

Im hopeful we'll see more trading/fixing. But if we dont, I dont hate the IKF move in a vacuum but in the context of our current roster....We still have DHAM at 2nd.  So you like IKF to backup Mayer.  Thats 2 really bad bats, so the positional coverage insurance is fine, the hitting depth isnt. And like I always go back to, when you have good hitters at the top of your lineup, you can survive defense first players on the bottom half.  But we dont.  Weve always been able to get like a Yu Chang if we need one.

[moonslav59]

58 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

, I think that anybody who is moving Early above Tolle is buying too much into small sample sizes last year, just my opinion.
 

Tolle is higher ranked for a reason- mostly upside potential, but there was a reason Early got the call first.

Yes, it's a small sample size, but the guy seems to be mentally ML ready.

I'd try like hell not to trade either one. Witherspoon is close to the same feeling. 

I'm moving towards trading Bello, too.

[drewski6]

15 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Tolle is higher ranked for a reason- mostly upside potential, but there was a reason Early got the call first.

Yes, it's a small sample size, but the guy seems to be mentally ML ready.

I'd try like hell not to trade either one. Witherspoon is close to the same feeling. 

I'm moving towards trading Bello, too.

Bello has a proven sinkerball that gives him a high floor, but he also kind of has a capped ceiling because at this point we know what we are getting and its like on the line between #3/#4 (my opinion)

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Bello has a proven sinkerball that gives him a high floor, but he also kind of has a capped ceiling because at this point we know what we are getting and its like on the line between #3/#4 (my opinion)

I agree, but it's hard for me to think a 26 year old can't keep getting significantly better.

Sometimes, it's more about smarts and experience than nasty stuff and secondary pitches.

[drewski6]

34 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree, but it's hard for me to think a 26 year old can't keep getting significantly better.

Sometimes, it's more about smarts and experience than nasty stuff and secondary pitches.

This is true, and its especially true in Bello's case.  He sometimes tries to mix in an upstairs cutter/4-seam (I have trouble telling Bello's pitches apart, I also cant tell if his primary is a 2-seamer or a sinker - but 2seamer vs sinker is more of a spectrum thing than a black / white thing but his straddles the middle).....But anyways, Bello could get better , I think, if he would abandon trying to go upstairs with his 4 seam/cutter (it may be 2 separate pitches, I have trouble with identifying his pitches) and live down in the zone (think DLowe when he is at his best) .... I think hed be better for it

If I were to nitpick your post (sorry), you imply that experience matters more than nasty stuff (sometimes). Experience and "stuff nastiness" are very very correlated.  A lot of people incorrectly think that experience as a pitcher is about learning how to mix up your pitches, but that stuff is kind of easy.  Change eye level. Inside - outside. Stay unpredictable. All 4 quadrants.  Hard inside; soft away.  The real experience , where it really helps, is learning and tweaking the grips. And that directly effects the nastiness.

A good pitcher who does not have nasty stuff is a myth.  Its usually a pitcher, who figured out a grip late in his career and everyone is assuming the stuff isnt nasty because he was always mediocre and now he isnt.  Another thing is you can get it fast, and you can lose it fast. Trust me.  I never pitched except for one year, where I was awesome.  Then I lost it, and could never do it again.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

This is true, and its especially true in Bello's case.  He sometimes tries to mix in an upstairs cutter/4-seam (I have trouble telling Bello's pitches apart, I also cant tell if his primary is a 2-seamer or a sinker - but 2seamer vs sinker is more of a spectrum thing than a black / white thing but his straddles the middle).....But anyways, Bello could get better , I think, if he would abandon trying to go upstairs with his 4 seam/cutter (it may be 2 separate pitches, I have trouble with identifying his pitches) and live down in the zone (think DLowe when he is at his best) .... I think hed be better for it

If I were to nitpick your post (sorry), you imply that experience matters more than nasty stuff (sometimes). Experience and "stuff nastiness" are very very correlated.  A lot of people incorrectly think that experience as a pitcher is about learning how to mix up your pitches, but that stuff is kind of easy.  Change eye level. Inside - outside. Stay unpredictable. All 4 quadrants.  The real experience , where it really helps, is learning and tweaking the grips. And that directly effects the nastiness.

A good pitcher who does not have nasty stuff is a myth.  Its usually a pitcher, who figured out a grip late in his career and everyone is assuming the stuff isnt nasty because he was always mediocre and now he isnt.  Another thing is you can get it fast, and you can lose it fast. Trust me.  I never pitched except for one year, where I was awesome.  Then I lost it, and could never do it again.

I did not need to imply experience matters more than nasty stuff, but as pitchers age, sometimes it compensates for losing some of the edge off their previously super nasty stuff.

I have no idea if Bello will get better. I have seen many pitchers have their best seasons between 27-31.

[notin]

23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I did not need to imply experience matters more than nasty stuff, but as pitchers age, sometimes it compensates for losing some of the edge off their previously super nasty stuff.

I have no idea if Bello will get better. I have seen many pitchers have their best seasons between 27-31.

Bello for Shaw - who says no?

(Hint: his names rhymes with Jed Hoyer)

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Bello for Shaw - who says no?

(Hint: his names rhymes with Jed Hoyer)

Why would Ken Boyer care?

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Bello for Shaw - who says no?

Bello & DHam gets to a yes!

LOL

[drewski6]

59 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Why would Ken Boyer care?

This joke lands

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Bello for Shaw - who says no?

(Hint: his names rhymes with Jed Hoyer)

Me.  Bello and Cedanne for Brent Rooker , who says no?

[moonslav59]

BTV accepts Bello & Phillips for Shaw.

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

BTV accepts Bello & Phillips for Shaw.

I make this trade, and if I woke up and saw it, Id be happy about it...But its not one I would go to first.

Regardless of position, who is the best hitter in the MLB who you think may be reasonably available.  I dont even care if they are a DH.  Position 100% aside.

Because if you get that elite hitting DH, they drastically help your defense.

You can now play IKF at SS, and move Story to 2b (dont worry, he wont hissy fit like Devers)

[drewski6]

To me, Brent Rooker is that DH

[Larry Cook]

Seems to me that Mayer is coming off surgery and has yet to play a full pro season.
Story breaks down more often than a 1978 ford pinto!!! 

maybe the ifk signing is a preemptive signing. 

[notin]

7 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Thats great.  I think I could pitch to this team and get through a couple innings.

And only give up maybe 130 or so runs.  A sparkling ERA of about 585.00…

[notin]

18 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Seems to me that Mayer is coming off surgery and has yet to play a full pro season.
Story breaks down more often than a 1978 ford pinto!!! 

maybe the ifk signing is a preemptive signing. 

I think so.  It’s not like Bo Bichette was going to sign here to play backup SS/3b…

[notin]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

To me, Brent Rooker is that DH

Rooker’s OPS the last 3 years was .853, which is certainly impressive.  However, before last year’s disaster, Casas had a career OPS of .830.

If healthy, Casas might be the DH you want..

[JoeBrady]

28 minutes ago, notin said:

Rooker’s OPS the last 3 years was .853, which is certainly impressive.  However, before last year’s disaster, Casas had a career OPS of .830.

If healthy, Casas might be the DH you want..

If you want to have some fun, Yoshida + some cash + a low-ish pitching prospect for O'Neill.

Or throw in one of our 7/8/9 type of guys, like Yoshi + Sandoval + enough cash to even it out.

[moonslav59]

I know KMarte is "off the table," but is Rooker really on it?

The best bat "available" might be Paredes.

He'd allow Mayer to play 2B or platoon it with Romy and I K F/Mayer to back up SS, too.

[moonslav59]

We can't afford to trade for Seager or Buxton, and injury issues are concerning.

Muncy?

Wood?

Chisholm?

[Hitch]

16 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

And Breslow hasn't been ok with what the ask has been for Paredes. That's why I think they aren't getting a deal pushed over the finish line. 

Yea, very much seems that way. 

[Hitch]

13 hours ago, notin said:

 

I look at IKF as Mayer Insurance.  The big gripe about Mayer is he gets hurt every year.  So Breslow went out and got a Gold Glove third baseman.  Is that really a problem? 

Absolutely not if he is the back up. In fact I think it's a great move if that's the case. I am nervous it is not.

[mvp 78]

11 hours ago, notin said:

Bello for Shaw - who says no?

(Hint: his names rhymes with Jed Hoyer)

Ned Boyer? 

[notin]

11 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Why would Ken Boyer care?

He has his reasons…

[notin]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Ned Boyer? 

His brother Ted, actually.  So close but no points awarded…