Red Sox acquire Wilson Contreras From Cardinals

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Allow me to ask a follow up question. 

What if Yoshida had no options but cost the league minimum? 

They'd be able to trade him at some point. Maybe get Casas healthy or see KC start to mash and then deal. Right now, they are kind of stuck with an albatross contract that other orgs laughed at when it was signed. 

[notin]

34 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

My point was, in the absence of having a David Ortiz type player it's best to be able to use the DH position to rest people.  Every roster is different.  This doesn't mean there isn't a place for guys like Schwarber, that a lot of teams dont' have guys that spend significant time DHin'g etc etc. 

 

Actually, it isn’t practical.

You need a DH for all 162 games.  No team “rests” a starter every game.  And most teams don’t have that many starters they would want to play at DH.  The Sox might “rest” Contreras or Anthony at DH, but even if they did it 20 times each - which is a lot - that still means they need a DH for the other 122 games.  Are they going to use Rafaela at DH 20 times? Or Mayer?

The whole “use the DH to rest players” thing is a fantasy created by fans who hate watching players get an occasional day off.  But a big part of the reason those players get a day off is also to keep the bench players active.

DH is a position.  Whether or not Yoshida is a good DH is a different matter entirely.  Just because many players settle into the DH role doesn’t change this.  The same can be said about 1b and closer, but no one views them as a “resting spot” for other players…

[Hugh2]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

No, they should be a mediocre to bad hitter. Maybe a guy that could barely hit 12-15 HR's if he eating all his Wheaties. 

And is that guy DHing full time? or does he rotate in with other guys?

Like I'm going to go through every team when I have more time, I literally just did one, starting with the Angels alphabetically. 

Mike Trout is their full time DH, but 4 other players DH'd that year, including Jorge Soler who took 1/4 of all DH at bats despite being the left fielder 1/2 the time.  

I suspect some very interesting results as I go through every team.  I suspect many many of them have 1-2 other players taking up 25-50% of the DH at bats second to the majority holder of DH at bats. 

[notin]

39 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Why can't it be, however? 

If the roster works out that we have the big 4 in the outfield rotating between the positions and DH I would say that would help us keep all 4 healthy.

Because you need a DH for all 162 games.

If the Sox used the DH role to fit in their 4 outfielders, Thats the same as having a dedicated DH.  And Theyre still not all gong to play 162 games even if healthy, because Cora doesn’t rest players to get them rest; he rests players to keep the bench players active.  And that will still happen…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

re. Yoshida, maybe -- and this is just winter blab until the Sox GET AN INFIELDER -- maybe they're waiting to see if a surgically-healed Masa can hit 20 home runs in a season... now that he's cleared to pump those inflatable dumbbells again.

Think about this: each of Boston's outfielders (listed anyway) possess at least one elite skill -- Anthony On Base, Abreu throwing, Rafaela catching, Duran running... but what's Yoshida's? Contact, not striking out? He's not quite batting crown contender, Jacob Wilson level.

If Masa can power up in the WBC and carry that over into the MLB, his value would soar considerably. Twenty HRs doesn't seem like much -- unless you play for the Red Sox and only have two returnees who reached that last year.

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually, it isn’t practical.

You need a DH for all 162 games.  No team “rests” a starter every game.  And most teams don’t have that many starters they would want to play at DH.  The Sox might “rest” Contreras or Anthony at DH, but even if they did it 20 times each - which is a lot - that still means they need a DH for the other 122 games.  Are they going to use Rafaela at DH 20 times? Or Mayer?

The whole “use the DH to rest players” thing is a fantasy created by fans who hate watching players get an occasional day off.  But a big part of the reason those players get a day off is also to keep the bench players active.

DH is a position.  Whether or not Yoshida is a good DH is a different matter entirely.  Just because many players settle into the DH role doesn’t change this.  The same can be said about 1b and closer, but no one views them as a “resting spot” for other players…

Dude. it's literally happening all over baseball, it's not a fantasy it's what teams are doing.  And if the second sentence was true isn't there 8 other positions on the field to get them at bats at OTHER than DH?

When the Angels sit Mike Trout and move Jorge Soler to DH they're giving Matt Lugo time in LEFT field.  If they're not resting their players why not just put Matt Lugo at DH?????  I think that kinda debunks your whole bolded point right there.  And that's literally just one team. 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Because you need a DH for all 162 games.

If the Sox used the DH role to fit in their 4 outfielders, Thats the same as having a dedicated DH.  And Theyre still not all gong to play 162 games even if healthy, because Cora doesn’t rest players to get them rest; he rests players to keep the bench players active.  And that will still happen…

Don't make me do all 30 teams Notin.  

Fact of the matter is, most teams use the DH position to rest guys while also allowing to leverage their bench and play match ups.  You're not doing that as much with a full time DH. 

[notin]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Dude. it's literally happening all over baseball, it's not a fantasy it's what teams are doing.  And if the second sentence was true isn't there 8 other positions on the field to get them at bats at OTHER than DH?

When the Angels sit Mike Trout and move Jorge Soler to DH they're giving Matt Lugo time in LEFT field.  If they're not resting their players why not just put Matt Lugo at DH?????  I think that kinda debunks your whole bolded point right there.  And that's literally just one team. 

It literally isn’t. 
 

Mike Trout got injured and missed all of May.  Upon returning in early June, he never played the outfield again.  Soler  DH’d for ONE GAME after June 1, when Trout returned.
 

Youre looking at players that got hurt and assuming they played part time.  

[mvp 78]

I don't understand the framing of "the league is heading towards more rotational DHs." If you go back 20 years, there are MORE fulltime DHs in 2025 than in 2005. 

[Hugh2]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

It literally isn’t. 
 

Mike Trout got injured and missed all of May.  Upon returning in early June, he never played the outfield again.  Soler  DH’d for ONE GAME after June 1, when Trout returned.
 

Youre looking at players that got hurt and assuming they played part time.  

Dude. 1 game? try 37 games. 

Did Mike Trouts games in the field come before or after his injury???

[Hugh2]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

I don't understand the framing of "the league is heading towards more rotational DHs." If you go back 20 years, there are MORE fulltime DHs in 2025 than in 2005. 

That's insanely misleading.  How many of those "full time DH's" are actually only playing 50-60% of the time with teams rotating?

You also have literally 50% of all of baseball that didn't have a DH 20 years ago. 

[Hugh2]

Thats literally one team, the first one in the alphabet.  Lets go to #2.  The Astros

Alvarez DH'd only 52% of the time with Paredes taking up 30% of the DH at bats but also playing games at 1B/2B/3B.  And Altuve getting rest by DHing 11% of the games. 

 

[Hugh2]

.

[Hugh2]

A's Rooker DH's the majority of the time so I'll give you guys that one.  

Lets move on to the Blue Jays

George Springer DH'd 52% of the time While Santander took 40% of the DH at bats.  Both those guys took the majority of at bats in RF and some in LF. WORLD SERIES caliber team literally rotating the DH.  3 for 4 here....moving down the line

[notin]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Don't make me do all 30 teams Notin.  

Fact of the matter is, most teams use the DH position to rest guys while also allowing to leverage their bench and play match ups.  You're not doing that as much with a full time DH. 

I don’t care how many teams you look at, but at least do one of them correctly.

Trout didn’t rotate at DH with Soler. Theyre time at DH didn’t overlap.  Soler DHd when Trout was injured, and early in the season when Trout was allowed to play the OF.  From June 1 on, Trout was the DH and DH only.

St. Louis used Herrera in a similar capacity.  No injury, but he was almost an exclusive DH starting in May.  And it wasn’t to get Pedro Pages’ bat into the lineup.  More likely it was to get Pages’ glove on the field.  Herrera did catch maybe half a dozen games, but catchers actually do need more days off as the position is physically demanding.

Plenty of teams have dedicated DHs.  While some team might occasionally use the role to give a injured/sore player a day off, it just isn’t practical to make that a daily thing.

Rather than try to convince yourself the Sox are not normal by having a full time DH and doing poor research, just admit you don’t like Yoshida for the role? Much, much easier. If the Sox had signed Schwarber, you wouldn’t be saying this.  It’s ok to admit you think Yoshida isnt a good DH…

[Hugh2]

Braves, didn't have one single guy reach more than 45% playing time as a DH.

 

Pure rotation with Jurickson Profar, Drake Baldwin, Sean Murphy, and Ronald Acuna Jr all rotating the DH and plyaing the field.  4 for 5....moving down the line. 

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

That's insanely misleading.  How many of those "full time DH's" are actually only playing 50-60% of the time with teams rotating?

You also have literally 50% of all of baseball that didn't have a DH 20 years ago. 

It's not misleading. Just run the positional splits yourself. Divide the 2025 DHs in half. It's still more than 2005. You stated there was a trend towards less fulltime DHs, but I can't find the evidence. 

[Hugh2]

I'll give you partial credit on the Brewers.  But lets be real, they'd get out of that contract in a heartbeat if they could.  And they did DH contreras a bit to rest him at catcher.  But we will give you that one.  4 for 6. 

[notin]

10 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Dude. 1 game? try 37 games. 

Did Mike Trouts games in the field come before or after his injury???

Trout played the outfield in April, got hurt, and missed almost all of May.  Upon returning, he never played the OF again.

Soler was DHing in April and May when Triut was out, but Soler’s last game at DH was June 1st.  After that he played OF until his season ended in late July.

They didn’t even overlap in the role…

[notin]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Braves, didn't have one single guy reach more than 45% playing time as a DH.

 

Pure rotation with Jurickson Profar, Drake Baldwin, Sean Murphy, and Ronald Acuna Jr all rotating the DH and plyaing the field.  4 for 5....moving down the line. 

Pure rotation? 
 

Profar DHd one game after returning from a 60 game suspension.  Acuna was injured and upon returning DHd half a dozen times.

You keep confusing injury with rotation. Might as well argue the Sox had a pure rotation at 3b between Bregman, Mayer, Romy, Sogard…

[Hugh2]

Just now, notin said:

Pure rotation? 
 

Profar DHd one game after returning from a 60 game suspension.  Acuna was injured and upon returning DHd half a dozen times.

You keep confusing injury with rotation. Might as well argue the Sox had a pure rotation at 3b between Bregman, Mayer, Romy, Sogard…

I'm not confusing anything with anything I'm going down a list of every team and looking at how the DH position is rotated.  SO far pretty much every team doesn't have a full time DH

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Good exercise. For some of these guys, I looked at the past half decade, and total hits. 

With about the same amount of XBH, here are 162-game averages for singles, as well...

Yes, I noticed the XBH numbers are pretty similar, and while HRs are way better than doubles, doubles and triples are very nice...

 

XBHs Per 162 games 2024-2025:

62/ 16 HRs + 46 2B+3B Bichette

50/ 24 HRs and 26 2B+3B Abreu

51/ 26 HRs and 25 2B+3B Contreras

65/ 28 Hrs and 37 2B+3B Bregman

62/ 31 HRs and 31 2B+3B Vientos

 

70/ 34 HRs and 36 2B+3B Devers

73/ 36 HRs and 37 2B+3B Alonso

70/ 40 HRs and 30 2B+3B Suarez

73/ 40 HRs and 33 2B+3B K Marte

49 HRs and 24 2B+3B Schwarber

[Hugh2]

Cardinals 6 guys DH'd but it's primarily Herrera so I'll throw that one in the Full time DH pile.  4 out fo 7. 

Cubs 8 Guys DH'd  Ballesteros took the most time at 40% DH also playing a little catcher and 1B. Austin who mostly sat on the bench but did play a little 1B took up 24% of the DH at bats.  WIth Suzuki, and Owen Caisse taking up another 25% of the time at DH and effectively being the full time RF between the two of them.  THat's another heavy rotation.  5 out of 8 teams. 

[Hugh2]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Trout played the outfield in April, got hurt, and missed almost all of May.  Upon returning, he never played the OF again.

Soler was DHing in April and May when Triut was out, but Soler’s last game at DH was June 1st.  After that he played OF until his season ended in late July.

They didn’t even overlap in the role…

So what youre saying is DHing him wasn't their first choice???

[moonslav59]

I get the love for the younger Bichette, but I'm not for making him the one exception made to the no large and long deal philosophy.

He lacks the power we need.

He's not a plus defensive SS and may not be at 2B, either.

He's probably getting 7 years. I'd rather get Bregman for 5, Suarez for 2-3 or trade for Marte or Donovan.

I'm not sold by the Vientos power numbers, either. He should play 1B not 3B, but I guess that same could be said of Suarez and Okamoto.

[notin]

23 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Thats literally one team, the first one in the alphabet.  Lets go to #2.  The Astros

Alvarez DH'd only 52% of the time with Paredes taking up 30% of the DH at bats but also playing games at 1B/2B/3B.  And Altuve getting rest by DHing 11% of the games. 

 

And does that happen IF ALVAREZ IS HEALTHY ALL YEAR?

Alvarez missed May, June, July and most of August with an injury.  Replacing injured players doesn’t mean the injured player was not a full time starter.  
 

This literally applies to every situation you have found. …

 

[Hugh2]

Diamondbacks split the DH position between 7 guys, with no one getting above 38% of the DH at bats and other guys who started the field such as Loures Gurriel Jr and Ketel Marte taking 28% of the DH at bats  to rest them from the field with a few other guys. 

THat's a rotation.  6 out of 9

[notin]

25 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

A's Rooker DH's the majority of the time so I'll give you guys that one.  

Lets move on to the Blue Jays

George Springer DH'd 52% of the time While Santander took 40% of the DH at bats.  Both those guys took the majority of at bats in RF and some in LF. WORLD SERIES caliber team literally rotating the DH.  3 for 4 here....moving down the line

 Springer moved to DH after an injury.  The Jays reportedly signed Santander to be their DH, but the return of Springer combined with his inability to return to the OF full time plus Santander’s .541 OPS made the decision easier.

Santander is proof Youre wrong given his contract and anticipated role…

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, notin said:

And does that happen IF ALVAREZ IS HEALTHY ALL YEAR?

Alvarez missed May, June, July and most of August with an injury.  Replacing injured players doesn’t mean the injured player was not a full time starter.  
 

This literally applies to every situation you have found. …

 

I notice a trend here.  Every one of your full time DH examples is dependent on injury or something happening literally works against the argument that teams look to employ a full time DH.  Seemingly it only happens when a guy gets hurt but can still hit. 

So is that argument? teams are looking for guys who can get injured and then DH? (obviously being sarcastic here).  Because in the absence of having a GOAT at DH like Schwarber it appears that the majority of teams rotate their DH, and give more consistent time at the position when forced to do so when injury occurs. 

[Hugh2]

Literally all your examples are "well this guy moved to DH when he got hurt" 

But how many of these teams started the year with a full time DH? which would seem to be a pre-requisite to claim a team doesn't want to rotate the DH and prefers to have a full time player there.