Morosi: Jarren Duran Would Be A "Great Fit" With Detroit Tigers

[drewski6]

24 minutes ago, Hitch said:

That World Series MVP must have just been for a laugh. 

Ah, Yamamoto.....Yeah, hes really good.  Still, of the top 30 WAR , all of baseball, 8 are pitchers.  Highest was SKubal who was 7th.

Not trying to say that pitching doesnt matter, just saying that in todays game, where pitchers are rarely pitching into the seventh, its better to have a stacked offense where the players play every night.

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

That World Series MVP must have just been for a laugh. 

Touche.  My point is really just that I think we should build through the offense vs through the pitching.  If you have 2 great starters and a team of noodle bats, they wont carry as far as they would have in the nineties/early 2000s when dudes would throw 300 innings.

I do thnk Crochet was this teams MVP last year, and will be this teams MVP next year, and I dont really think theres a convincing argument against.  So my point is not that pitching doesnt matter or that you dont need it.  Just right now, Im a bit lazer focused on the offensive needs because we had Yoshida batting cleanup last year, lost Bregman, will probably trade an OF'er and I dont think the youth is enough to compensate for all that.

We need a pitcher, but not necessarily one as good as Skubal.  Or, at least, we dont need an elite pitcher as much as we need an elite hitter (my opinion). A lot of that is because we already have Crochet.

[drewski6]

The best part about getting Skubal is not that if you have two legit aces you are automatically a contender. You arent.  YOu still need a very good offense or you arent doing anything.  The best thing about having Skubal and Crochet, however, is that if one gets hurt you still have an ace.

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Ah, Yamamoto.....Yeah, hes really good.  Still, of the top 30 WAR , all of baseball, 8 are pitchers.  Highest was SKubal who was 7th.

Not trying to say that pitching doesnt matter, just saying that in todays game, where pitchers are rarely pitching into the seventh, its better to have a stacked offense where the players play every night.

Yamamoto's WAR was less than a guy whose name sounds vaguely familiar .....Nick Pivetta. 

 

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

We took that gamble with crochet and won! 

The extension JH allowed for Crochet is not nearly what Skubal will agree to.

[Larry Cook]

39 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The extension JH allowed for Crochet is not nearly what Skubal will agree to.

All the more reason to trade for sale:

1.) sale will cost less in prospects and budgeted dollars. 
2.) sale’s stuff is as good as skubal. 
3.) the kids should be ready to replace sale by year end or when sale gets injured again. 

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

All the more reason to trade for sale:

1.) sale will cost less in prospects and budgeted dollars. 
2.) sale’s stuff is as good as skubal. 
3.) the kids should be ready to replace sale by year end or when sale gets injured again. 

Our window is wide open, but it can also be 4-5 years open.

I'm not for narrowing the window to 1-2 years, despite greatly improving the team for the short term.

These guys put us through 7 years of hell to slowly build up the roster with young, controlled and relatively cheap players, and I just don't see them throwing that plan into the wind. Skubal is one thing, but the plan should be to go back to the guy who hasn't finished a season since the whole teardown began?

No thanks.

I'd love Sale on the team, but not at the expense of the future, while also repeating the same lame game of pinning hopes on old or recently injured pitchers. Sale is both!

[Hitch]

6 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Touche.  My point is really just that I think we should build through the offense vs through the pitching.  If you have 2 great starters and a team of noodle bats, they wont carry as far as they would have in the nineties/early 2000s when dudes would throw 300 innings.

I do thnk Crochet was this teams MVP last year, and will be this teams MVP next year, and I dont really think theres a convincing argument against.  So my point is not that pitching doesnt matter or that you dont need it.  Just right now, Im a bit lazer focused on the offensive needs because we had Yoshida batting cleanup last year, lost Bregman, will probably trade an OF'er and I dont think the youth is enough to compensate for all that.

We need a pitcher, but not necessarily one as good as Skubal.  Or, at least, we dont need an elite pitcher as much as we need an elite hitter (my opinion). A lot of that is because we already have Crochet.

We need both. We need good offence and we need a better No2 than we have. If we build the offence and leave the pitching as it is we'll get to the play offs and get swatted aside by dominant pitching.

Whether we can get Skubal, and still build the offence to the levels we want is a fair concern. Skubal is fun to talk about but there's next to no chance it's happening. It'll be a Ryan type and then money spent on the offence I think. 

But we need both.

[drewski6]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Our window is wide open, but it can also be 4-5 years open.

I'm not for narrowing the window to 1-2 years, despite greatly improving the team for the short term.

These guys put us through 7 years of hell to slowly build up the roster with young, controlled and relatively cheap players, and I just don't see them throwing that plan into the wind. Skubal is one thing, but the plan should be to go back to the guy who hasn't finished a season since the whole teardown began?

No thanks.

I'd love Sale on the team, but not at the expense of the future, while also repeating the same lame game of pinning hopes on old or recently injured pitchers. Sale is both!

Why is Sale the expense of the future?  Id give very little in a trade, and put him in the pen. And they might bite.  But as I sip my coffee , probs not cuz theyll prob want to flip him at the deadline.  If hes healthy at the deadline, could be a good add but no reason to decide on that now and hes not or was ever going to be the "#2 pitcher" we need right now.

[drewski6]

7 hours ago, Hitch said:

We need both. We need good offence and we need a better No2 than we have. If we build the offence and leave the pitching as it is we'll get to the play offs and get swatted aside by dominant pitching.

Whether we can get Skubal, and still build the offence to the levels we want is a fair concern. Skubal is fun to talk about but there's next to no chance it's happening. It'll be a Ryan type and then money spent on the offence I think. 

But we need both.

This is fair and I have no argument.

[moonslav59]

39 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Why is Sale the expense of the future?  Id give very little in a trade, and put him in the pen. And they might bite.  But as I sip my coffee , probs not cuz theyll prob want to flip him at the deadline.  If hes healthy at the deadline, could be a good add but no reason to decide on that now and hes not or was ever going to be the "#2 pitcher" we need right now.

I'd give very little, too, if ATL was that dumb.

It won't be a little. My guess is it would cost Early or Campbell- maybe Arias and Garcia, if two prospects.

Sandlin, Cespedes, Mullins and Bleis, yes. I'd give all 4, but that's not "the future."

[moonslav59]

7 hours ago, Hitch said:

We need both. We need good offence and we need a better No2 than we have. If we build the offence and leave the pitching as it is we'll get to the play offs and get swatted aside by dominant pitching.

Whether we can get Skubal, and still build the offence to the levels we want is a fair concern. Skubal is fun to talk about but there's next to no chance it's happening. It'll be a Ryan type and then money spent on the offence I think. 

But we need both.

I'd put a big bat slightly above a #2 SP'er, because we actually need 2 big bats. If we got two pretty good bats, then the #2 might be the top need.

1. Big bopper (1B or 3B/2B- DH is somewhat problematic)

2. #2 SP

3. Good bat (3B/2B or 1B, whichever #1 did not fill)

Big gap...

4. Matz type RP

5. Back-up catcher or Refsnyder, if we trade Duran or Abreu for one of the top 3 needs.

[Duran Is The Man]

30 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd give very little, too, if ATL was that dumb.

It won't be a little. My guess is it would cost Early or Campbell- maybe Arias and Garcia, if two prospects.

Sandlin, Cespedes, Mullins and Bleis, yes. I'd give all 4, but that's not "the future."

you think they're dumb enough to take Grissom and pay most of Sale's salary this year? nah....nobody is that stupid.

[notin]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

Why is Sale the expense of the future?  Id give very little in a trade, and put him in the pen. And they might bite.  But as I sip my coffee , probs not cuz theyll prob want to flip him at the deadline.  If hes healthy at the deadline, could be a good add but no reason to decide on that now and hes not or was ever going to be the "#2 pitcher" we need right now.

I can understand not wanting to rely on Sale for his age 37 season. But on what planet is a pitcher with over 10 bWAR in the last 2 season NOT a #2 pitcher?

[notin]

49 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd put a big bat slightly above a #2 SP'er, because we actually need 2 big bats. If we got two pretty good bats, then the #2 might be the top need.

1. Big bopper (1B or 3B/2B- DH is somewhat problematic)

2. #2 SP

3. Good bat (3B/2B or 1B, whichever #1 did not fill)

Big gap...

4. Matz type RP

5. Back-up catcher or Refsnyder, if we trade Duran or Abreu for one of the top 3 needs.

Bringing back Matz and Refsnyder are two smaller ancillary moves that should happen and could both happen quickly while the bigger names sift through offers and pit teams against each other…

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, notin said:

Bringing back Matz and Refsnyder are two smaller ancillary moves that should happen and could both happen quickly while the bigger names sift through offers and pit teams against each other…

With Romy able to platoon at DH, I'm not sure we need Ref, unless we trade and OF'er.

Yes, Romy could platoon with Mayer, but I am not sure Cora wants to sit Mayer in 30% of all starts.

[notin]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

With Romy able to platoon at DH, I'm not sure we need Ref, unless we trade and OF'er.

Yes, Romy could platoon with Mayer, but I am not sure Cora wants to sit Mayer in 30% of all starts.

I totally believe Cora wants Mayer to be platooned.   It's like when Ben Franklin said "There are 3 certainties in life - death, taxes, and Alex Cora using platoons wherever possible."

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

I totally believe Cora wants Mayer to be platooned.   It's like when Ben Franklin said "There are 3 certainties in life - death, taxes, and Alex Cora using platoons wherever possible."

When he was fried by that lightning strike, his vision went blank and the fist thing he saw after was the writing XWOBACON. 

[notin]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

When he was fried by that lightning strike, his vision went blank and the fist thing he saw after was the writing XWOBACON. 

Most people have forgotten, but Poor Richard's Almanac was the forerunner of Fangraphs...

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Most people have forgotten, but Poor Richard's Almanac was the forerunner of Fangraphs...

As with FanGraphs, a penny saved is a penny lost. 

[drewski6]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd give very little, too, if ATL was that dumb.

It won't be a little. My guess is it would cost Early or Campbell- maybe Arias and Garcia, if two prospects.

Sandlin, Cespedes, Mullins and Bleis, yes. I'd give all 4, but that's not "the future."

For a 37 yr old sale on a non contending team, on a 1 yr deal, for like 18m? When he got hurt last year? Im honestly surprised they pulled the trigger on the option.

No way I give up Early/Campbell/Tolle

I think straight up for Sandlin is prob fine.  If Im them, however, I wait to the deadline because if hes healthy and pitching well, then the price tag would go up.

I could be wrong but I think he has very little trade value.  

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, notin said:

I can understand not wanting to rely on Sale for his age 37 season. But on what planet is a pitcher with over 10 bWAR in the last 2 season NOT a #2 pitcher?

One where hes gotten hurt every year for the last 10, and makes 18m/yr and is 37 yrs old

Id put him in the pen.

[Larry Cook]

50 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

For a 37 yr old sale on a non contending team, on a 1 yr deal, for like 18m? When he got hurt last year? Im honestly surprised they pulled the trigger on the option.

No way I give up Early/Campbell/Tolle

I think straight up for Sandlin is prob fine.  If Im them, however, I wait to the deadline because if hes healthy and pitching well, then the price tag would go up.

I could be wrong but I think he has very little trade value.  

Whatever we give up for sale, it will have to be an overpay, but fitts and a Choice of Mullins or Sandlin or Rogers, is not going to ruin our future but will help 2026 a ton 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, notin said:

I totally believe Cora wants Mayer to be platooned.   It's like when Ben Franklin said "There are 3 certainties in life - death, taxes, and Alex Cora using platoons wherever possible."

I could see this being the case, so that would take Romy out of the DH platoon mix.

The next question would be: would Brez & Co. okay the use of a prospect like Garcia or Campbell in a near strict, short-sided platoon situation in the OF w Abreu and/or Duran or at DH with Masa? I'm saying probably not, so then yes, bring Ref back for 1 year.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

For a 37 yr old sale on a non contending team, on a 1 yr deal, for like 18m? When he got hurt last year? Im honestly surprised they pulled the trigger on the option.

No way I give up Early/Campbell/Tolle

I think straight up for Sandlin is prob fine.  If Im them, however, I wait to the deadline because if hes healthy and pitching well, then the price tag would go up.

I could be wrong but I think he has very little trade value.  

I guess BTV says Garcia or Clarke.

I'd be okay with this, but I'd still want Ryan or Lodolo. Maybe Keller and Sale would be okay.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Whatever we give up for sale, it will have to be an overpay, but fitts and a Choice of Mullins or Sandlin or Rogers, is not going to ruin our future but will help 2026 a ton 

I'd give all 3.

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I guess BTV says Garcia or Clarke.

I'd be okay with this, but I'd still want Ryan or Lodolo. Maybe Keller and Sale would be okay.

Im not interested in sale at 18m. Im surprised he has positive value at all.  Now at the deadline, when there is only like 8m remaining on the 18m, Im very interested (assuming hes healthy)

Fits the budget better.  

 

[drewski6]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd give all 3.

Sure, if they eat some $$.  I dont want to allocate half our budget to sale.  Need more than 20-25m for bats.

[drewski6]

Mullins , sandlin, rogers for sale + 9m eaten, im interested. Im not interested in paying sale 18m sorry. And Im putting him in the pen.

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Sure, if they eat some $$.  I dont want to allocate half our budget to sale.  Need more than 20-25m for bats.

Add Hicks.