Red Sox 2025 Trade Deadline Thread

[notin]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Hamilton for Luis Castillo last offseason. Breslow declined. End of story. This comes from people who talk to FO guys. 

Can I get a link?  It feels incomplete

[FredLynn]

47 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

"It's nice that they are playing good, watchable baseball for the first time since 2021." <--- Irrational exuberance! 

Counting on it to continue given the history of the Flops failures over the years=irrational exuberance 

[FredLynn]

34 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

You are both a victim and a provocateur of what I call "perceived deprivation."  This is the John Henry era, the  best in Sox history including 4 WS wins, more than any other MLB team.  The Yankees with 27 WS wins overall have 1 in the JH era.   Before the 3 bad seasons of 2022-24, the Sox made it to the ALCS.  But you make it sound as though the Sox have been in complete, unredeemable collapse. 

And by the way it's called the John Henry era not only because he's the owner, but also because he has shown no hesitation in firing managers and CBO's  He also gives guidance on how much he's willing to spend.  For roughly his first 20 years of ownership, he was pretty much willing to pay top dollar.  This culminated in the 2018 best Sox season ever and the highest payroll in MLB.  The next season, 2019, the Sox still had the highest payroll and didn't make it to the postseason.  Plus DD was telling JH he would need a bunch more bucks to fix the rotation.  

Chaim Bloom was hired because he came from the Rays and JH obviously was hoping for a competitive Sox team that didn't have to pay top dollar.   Didn't work because Chaim Bloom didn't have the time or the knowledge to install the Rays system.  There was, however, still enough talent and a terrific manager to get the Sox to the ALCS in 2021.  Then came a seemingly endless series of seasons--3 in all--when the Sox were neither fish nor fowl.   As a result, word was that, after letting CB go, John Henry was going to have a tough time getting a good CBO.

Now we are in the 2d season of Breslow's tenure, and I have to say I think you are dead wrong about how we got here--largely because of JH--and how surprisingly effective Breslow has been in building a solid future that looks like it can be competitive while avoiding the biggest payroll in MLB.   Current Sox payroll is 12th in MLB.  

Of course nothing is guaranteed about August and September--and absolutely no one on talksox has made that claim.  But what most of us have said is that recently the Sox have played some tough opponents--four of the six MLB division leaders--and acquitted themselves well.  And I claim that this team right now has the best Sox pitching staff since 2018, is in the top 5 in MLB in runs scored, and has at least 6 good defenders--Bregman, Story, Narvaez, Rafaela, Abreu, and Duran/Anthony.  Hamilton's excellent at 2b, but can't hit.  Gonzalez definitely can hit, but is so-so on defense.  

I think one of the reasons Breslow has been successful is that he makes most of his key trades and hires in the offseason, not in July.   

 

First, Breslow failed miserably at doing his job to better the team at the deadline this year AND last. There are excuses but let’s call them what they are: excuses. 
Second, this is a big market team owned by a multimillionaire. They should be competing for a playoff spot nearly every year, not taking three years off. There’s no good reason for that to happen. It’s just poor management and a cheapskate owner. Some here may accept it or even call it a rose. I see it for what it is: failure.

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

Can I get a link?  It feels incomplete

I'm sorry. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Of course there have been more failures than rings.  To what team does that not apply?

Which is exactly why I chalk up Fred's negativity as a form of neurosis.  He doesn't even know what good times are.

   

[Maxbialystock]

55 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Failures as in starting off well then crashing into the dust and missing the playoffs as they choked the season away. I’m not talking about sucking all year. 
As I wrote, this team has accomplished nothing so far. I’m not pinning a medal on Breslows chest until I see how the season ends. So far all I’m seeing from Flops fans is “irrational exuberance”.

Hold it.  Just hold it.  You don't like exuberance?   That's what puts butts in seats, buster.  The Sox just played a Mon-Wed series vs the so-so Royals and averaged over 37,000 attendance.   Butts in seats are the lifeblood of a team, and you have branded all those paying fans "flops."  

 

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

First, Breslow failed miserably at doing his job to better the team at the deadline this year AND last. There are excuses but let’s call them what they are: excuses. 
Second, this is a big market team owned by a multimillionaire. They should be competing for a playoff spot nearly every year, not taking three years off. There’s no good reason for that to happen. It’s just poor management and a cheapskate owner. Some here may accept it or even call it a rose. I see it for what it is: failure.

Technically, they DID compete for a playoff spot in '22, '23 and '24, but just failed down the stretch. Competing doesn't mean you get in every year, right? 

[FredLynn]

26 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Technically, they DID compete for a playoff spot in '22, '23 and '24, but just failed down the stretch. Competing doesn't mean you get in every year, right? 

Well technically EVERY TEAM "competes" for a playoff spot every year. If you have been a Flops fan  for long enough you should be able to recall the many epic crashes where it seemed that they were headed for success but over August and September choked themselves out of the race while other teams, especially the Yankees, were thriving.

[FredLynn]

30 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Hold it.  Just hold it.  You don't like exuberance?   That's what puts butts in seats, buster.  The Sox just played a Mon-Wed series vs the so-so Royals and averaged over 37,000 attendance.   Butts in seats are the lifeblood of a team, and you have branded all those paying fans "flops."  

 

I have branded the franchise as "Flops". I have also branded some of the fans as "mindlessly optimistic". 

Both terms are accurate.

[harmony]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

The rumor is Luis Castillo for Hamilton. Several teams asked about David Hamilton and Breslow turned them down. Big miss. 

As mentioned in the offseason, Seattle would have little interest in David Hamilton when the Mariners had Gold Glove winner Dylan Moore under a guaranteed $3.6 million contract for 2025.

Last year Hamilton posted 1.7 fWAR and 2.6 bWAR (with 33 stolen bases) in 98 games while Moore posted 2.4 fWAR and 2.2 bWAR (with 32 stolen bases) in 135 games.

Lacking starting pitching depth, the Mariners weren't trading an established starter who rarely misses a start (2025 ERA of 3.22) for a redundant utility player. 

The Seattle and Boston media never reported an offer of Castillo for Hamilton ... almost certainly because the offer was never made. Reports were that the Red Sox declined an offer of Castillo for Triston Casas and that the Mariners turned down an offer of Casas and Masataka Yoshida for Castillo.

[notin]

34 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'm sorry. 

No link? No story? Not even a tweet?  How did you find out? Were you in the room? Or get a call from Chris Cotillo?

[notin]

1 minute ago, harmony said:

As mentioned in the offseason, Seattle would have little interest in David Hamilton when the Mariners had Gold Glove winner Dylan Moore under a guaranteed contract for 2025.

Last year Hamilton posted 1.7 fWAR and 2.6 bWAR (with 33 stolen bases) in 98 games while Moore posted 2.4 fWAR and 2.2 bWAR (with 32 stolen bases) in 135 games.

Lacking starting pitching depth, the Mariners weren't trading an established starter who rarely misses a start (2025 ERA of 3.22) for a redundant utility player. 

The Seattle and Boston media never reported an offer of Castillo for Hamilton ... almost certainly because the offer was never made. Reports were that the Red Sox declined an offer of Castillo for Triston Casas and that the Mariners turned down an offer of Casas and Masataka Yoshida for Castillo.

Dylan Moore didnt get a Gold Glove at 2b, and his award for utility player should have gone to Rafaela, who outperformed Moore on pretty much every metric…

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

No link? No story? Not even a tweet?  How did you find out? Were you in the room? Or get a call from Chris Cotillo?

I love having to do the work for everyone around here! It's like constant fetch quests for the grumpiest middle aged dorks around. 

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, harmony said:

As mentioned in the offseason, Seattle would have little interest in David Hamilton when the Mariners had Gold Glove winner Dylan Moore under a guaranteed $3.6 million contract for 2025.

Last year Hamilton posted 1.7 fWAR and 2.6 bWAR (with 33 stolen bases) in 98 games while Moore posted 2.4 fWAR and 2.2 bWAR (with 32 stolen bases) in 135 games.

Lacking starting pitching depth, the Mariners weren't trading an established starter who rarely misses a start (2025 ERA of 3.22) for a redundant utility player. 

The Seattle and Boston media never reported an offer of Castillo for Hamilton ... almost certainly because the offer was never made. Reports were that the Red Sox declined an offer of Castillo for Triston Casas and that the Mariners turned down an offer of Casas and Masataka Yoshida for Castillo.

Seems like the Mariners were hoping to acquire a fulltime 2b rather than the hodgepodge they are running out there this season? This doesn't mean it would have been a good trade.

 

[harmony]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Dylan Moore didnt get a Gold Glove at 2b, and his award for utility player should have gone to Rafaela, who outperformed Moore on pretty much every metric…

Entering the season Seattle handed second base to Ryan Bliss, who suffered a season-ending injury on April 8. Bliss was to keep the seat warm for second baseman Cole Young, who since his May 31 call-up has posted 1,.0 bWAR (a 3.2 bWAR pace over 162 games). Young, who just turned 22 years old, has produced what the Red Sox had hoped for from Marcelo Mayer, a fellow former first-round draft pick who is seven months older than Young.

[notin]

38 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Which is exactly why I chalk up Fred's negativity as a form of neurosis.  He doesn't even know what good times are.

   

I know.

Im excited for this team and they’ve made June and July fun.  But I know the postseason is no guarantee and I also know their fate is not solely up to them.

Not to mention, the term “collapse” gets thrown around a bit quickly.  Certainly the 2011 Sox had an epic meltdown.  But the most popular one is always 1978.  Did that team really “collapse”? They won 99 games!  They lost a big lead not solely because the wheels came totally off, but more because the Yankees played .750 baseball for nearly 3 months.  Sure the Sox lost the head to head games, but the real damage was done in late July/early August where they had a rough stretch and the Yankees cut about 7 games off their lead.  But they did bounce back, and it was the Sox who won the game to force the play off.

At the time, it was their winningest season in over 30 years and their second highest win total since 1915.  But because the Yankees played an other-worldly half-season, it’s considered a collapse…

 

[harmony]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Seems like the Mariners were hoping to acquire a fulltime 2b rather than the hodgepodge they are running out there this season? This doesn't mean it would have been a good trade.

 

Would David Hamilton's current negative 0.4 fWAR been an upgrade for Seattle?

The Mariners entered the 2025 with Keith Law's top-ranked farm system that was filled with middle infielders, including Cole Young, who in his first 50 MLB games has prodcued at a 3.2 bWAR pace over 162 games. The M's had no shortage of "fulltime 2b" candidates.

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

I know.

Im excited for this team and they’ve made June and July fun.  But I know the postseason is no guarantee and I also know their fate is not solely up to them.

Not to mention, the term “collapse” gets thrown around a bit quickly.  Certainly the 2011 Sox had an epic meltdown.  But the most popular one is always 1978.  Did that team really “collapse”? They won 99 games!  They lost a big lead not solely because the wheels came totally off, but more because the Yankees played .750 baseball for nearly 3 months.  Sure the Sox lost the head to head games, but the real damage was done in late July/early August where they had a rough stretch and the Yankees cut about 7 games off their lead.  But they did bounce back, and it was the Sox who won the game to force the play off.

At the time, it was their winningest season in over 30 years and their second highest win total since 1915.  But because the Yankees played an other-worldly half-season, it’s considered a collapse…

 

Hey-don't misunderstand me! This season has so far been much more fun than the last few years. No argument there at all. I'm just keeping the discussion grounded, especially in light of the history of collapses the franchise has put the fans through-and the abject failure by Breslow to help the team success the last couple of years at the trade deadline. That failure is real. Now lets sit back and continue to enjoy their success to date while keeping a wary eye on the possibility of yet another failure.

[mvp 78]

31 minutes ago, harmony said:

Would David Hamilton's current negative 0.4 fWAR been an upgrade for Seattle?

The Mariners entered the 2025 with Keith Law's top-ranked farm system that was filled with middle infielders, including Cole Young, who in his first 50 MLB games has prodcued at a 3.2 bWAR pace over 162 games. The M's had no shortage of "fulltime 2b" candidates.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the ZiPS projections telling us that the Sox were supposed to be very bad this year and the Mariners very good? 

[mvp 78]

31 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Hey-don't misunderstand me! This season has so far been much more fun than the last few years. No argument there at all. I'm just keeping the discussion grounded, especially in light of the history of collapses the franchise has put the fans through-and the abject failure by Breslow to help the team success the last couple of years at the trade deadline. That failure is real. Now lets sit back and continue to enjoy their success to date while keeping a wary eye on the possibility of yet another failure.

I'm pretty sure most posters remember the past three years and don't have to be reminded every single bad play in every single game thread. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Can I get a link?  It feels incomplete

I researched. The offer was more than Hamilton for Castillo.

It was Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds.

 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Why?  He has options.  You can get the same benefit for a lot less money by DFAing Nate Eaton.

And if injuries become an issue, Yoshida is much better depth to have…

Yoshida in AAA is a waste of a 40 man slot.

[notin]

16 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I researched. The offer was more than Hamilton for Castillo.

It was Hamilton, Joe Frank and Reynolds.

 

No way they included Reynolds on that offer!!

[notin]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yoshida in AAA is a waste of a 40 man slot.

As opposed to Eaton and Nick Sogard?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

No way they included Reynolds on that offer!!

Just be glad they held onto Username, brother of the Password.

[FredLynn]

28 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'm pretty sure most posters remember the past three years and don't have to be reminded every single bad play in every single game thread. 

Only “select” bad plays. Some here excuse the worst of them. I don’t. 
For example, chasing pitches outside the zone. Did you realize that the Flops have the fourth highest chase rate in baseball? Why is it that I am the only poster calling them out on those blunders? I think I present a more balanced view than most here. I compliment the good plays, the good performances while fairly criticizing the blunders.

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I love having to do the work for everyone around here! It's like constant fetch quests for the grumpiest middle aged dorks around. 

Well I did a Google search on “David Hamilton Luis Castillo trade” and my top match was a Talksox thread about Seattle exploring Castillo trades.  David Hamilton did eventually get mentioned by drewski (who, as far as I know, works for neither team) but not so much as a legitimate proposal.  And there were numerous replies from harmony extolling the virtues of Dylan Moore.  
 

I have serious doubts this trade was ever proposed by either team, and might just be something we fabricated here…

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Yoshida in AAA is a waste of a 40 man slot.

And that's the rub.  

[mvp 78]

53 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Only “select” bad plays. Some here excuse the worst of them. I don’t. 
For example, chasing pitches outside the zone. Did you realize that the Flops have the fourth highest chase rate in baseball? Why is it that I am the only poster calling them out on those blunders? I think I present a more balanced view than most here. I compliment the good plays, the good performances while fairly criticizing the blunders.

It's fair to complain about the chase rate. That's one of the clearest paths to bringing the offense back to earth. 

Right now, they are really relying on good pitching. If those arms tire or take a step back, the offense has work to do. 

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's fair to complain about the chase rate. That's one of the clearest paths to bringing the offense back to earth. 

Right now, they are really relying on good pitching. If those arms tire or take a step back, the offense has work to do. 

They are second in runs scored and third in OPS in the AL. But if they reduced their chase rate they could be historically good perhaps. 

Why it that no one else has commented on how they could IMPROVE? I don't remember any of THOSE comments except from me.