A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[Nick]

Story can opt out after 2025 season. Sox can force to negate the opt out by picking up Story's 2028 option. 

I doubt Story opts out and I also doubt that the Sox would pick up his 2028 option.

It's time to trade him this winter regardless of what he does, UNLESS BREGMAN also opts out.

Under that scenario, we keep Story at short and have Mayer play 3B. 

We can avoid all that by extending Bregman to 2028 with another opt out.

[moonslav59]

20 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Again, if the club asks him to play 1B and he refuses, then it could be a problem.

Maybe, if they were asking with the idea that they will play him there, no matter what he answers,

I see your point, but it does seem like the best way to approach the situation, after what happened with the DH move. It is likely better than them coming up to him, one day, and saying, here is a 1Bman's mitt: we want you to go out and show us what you can do in practice at 1B.

You think that sits better with him (and the team?)

 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe, if they were asking with the idea that they will play him there, no matter what he answers,

I see your point, but it does seem like the best way to approach the situation, after what happened with the DH move. It is likely better than them coming up to him, one day, and saying, here is a 1Bman's mitt: we want you to go out and show us what you can do in practice at 1B.

You think that sits better with him (and the team?)

 

Well, if he's a team first guy then he would do what they tell him.

[Larry Cook]

The announcers of tonight’s game against Colorado still think Atlanta needs a shortstop 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Well, if he's a team first guy then he would do what they tell him.

Agreed, but asking first is not a bad idea.

[notin]

22 hours ago, vegasbob said:

Given the run Bobby Dalbec was given  , I'm sure the Sox will let Casas  have a good stretch of time ( June?)  to see if he can get his bat going consistently and upgrade the D.   But if Grissom/Romy continue, but Triston doesn't,  they will start fitting him for a WooSox suit and get the extra  option year back.   

Casas brings to mind the tolerance for so called slow starters  as if early season results really don't matter.  This is a fallacy .  Every win matters , no offense to Shedeur Sanders

They didn’t have as many options being Dalbec as they do now…

[notin]

16 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Well, if he's a team first guy then he would do what they tell him.

Not if he thinks his performance will drag the team down.

There is nothing wrong with asking a player to try anew position; it happens all the time around MLB.  If the player isn’t interested, it could also send the message that management cares about their opinions.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

9 minutes ago, notin said:

Not if he thinks his performance will drag the team down.

There is nothing wrong with asking a player to try anew position; it happens all the time around MLB.  If the player isn’t interested, it could also send the message that management cares about their opinions.

He didn't seem concerned when his performance at 3B dragged the team down.

And I disagree, if he refuses to do what the team wants him to do then it makes it look like the inmates are running the asylum.

[notin]

2 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

He didn't seem concerned when his performance at 3B dragged the team down.

And I disagree, if he refuses to do what the team wants him to do then it makes it look like the inmates are running the asylum.

Why is it comparable to an asylum?  Are there even asylums any more?

I mean, there are plenty of employee-owned businesses out there that do just fine.  Not to mention Union shops where employees have a say.  What is this obsession with comparing management concern to the practically defunct concept of an asylum?  

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Just now, notin said:

Why is it comparable to an asylum?  Are there even asylums any more?

I mean, there are plenty of employee-owned businesses out there that do just fine.  Not to mention Union shops where employees have a say.  What is this obsession with comparing management concern to the practically defunct concept of an asylum?  

That's just a saying.

And this isn't an employee-owned business.

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, notin said:

They didn’t have as many options being Dalbec as they do now…

They did leave 1B depth pretty barren, but I do think picking up a decent journeyman 1B in May or June might be the easiest position to fill. I think they expected Casas to be ready by May or June, but he got hurt. All-in-all the pre-season plan was not god-awful: they were just slow to react, once they knew Casas was a no go.

We all knew Dalbec was a question mark, and his super high K rate is almost always a sign of trouble ahead. That being said, they did have some reason to be optimistic that 1B would not be a major problem. Over Bobby Dee's first 156 gamea (545 PAs,) he hit .243 33 94 with 29 DBL+TRPL.

The .308 OBP was not good, but later one, we'd have been thrilled with just that. His .511 OPS looked very promising for a young players first 545 PAs. His OPS was .819 (114 OPS+)

[notin]

22 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

That's just a saying.

And this isn't an employee-owned business.

First of all, not the point. (But it is a union business.)

Second, changing positions in MLB is extremely common.  I would doubt every single player who changes was ordered to do so. (Wasn’t Story approached about 2b? Or A-Rod when he went to third?))  And certainly players have refused without derailing their team.  Some have, with Mike Trout being a notable example.  But giving them the option first isn’t always so bad.  Heck some might think it’s not really an option, but at least appreciate they were approached about it…

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Just now, notin said:

First of all, not the point.

Second, changing positions in MLB is extremely common.  I would doubt every single player who changes was ordered to do so. (Wasn’t Story approached about 2b? Or A-Rod when he went to third?))  And certainly players have refused without derailing their team.  Some have, with Mike Trout being a notable example.  But giving them the option first isn’t always so bad.  Heck some might think it’s not really an option, but at least appreciate they were approached about it…

I never stated otherwise.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, notin said:

First of all, not the point. (But it is a union business.)

Second, changing positions in MLB is extremely common.  I would doubt every single player who changes was ordered to do so. (Wasn’t Story approached about 2b? Or A-Rod when he went to third?))  And certainly players have refused without derailing their team.  Some have, with Mike Trout being a notable example.  But giving them the option first isn’t always so bad.  Heck some might think it’s not really an option, but at least appreciate they were approached about it…

Considering how Devers seemed to be saying he disliked not being out of the field, I would think he'd be agreeable to playing 1B over DH. He must realize he's not playing 3B, anymore for the Sox, even if Bregman bolts after 2025. Mayer is ML ready. Devers knows this.

I don't want to presume I know what a plyer feels or wants: I often criticize other posters for doing that, but I think he would likely say yes to 1B, just maybe not now or mid season 2025. Maybe, Sox brass does not want to "stir the beast" after what happened, this past winter, but I'd think it has to be something they have thought of.

To me, Casas still has a lot of slack on his "leash," so there is no big hurry, but if one option would be to have Devers play or share time at 1B, once the leash is as tight as it gets, then he needs to start practicing at 1B, pronto.

We could end up with some sort of DH/1B share, where Devers and Casas share 1B and DH about 50-50, at least until we find out if Devers is better on D or not, or give Yoshida his shot at DH (maybe Refsnyder v LHPs) and go with Devers at 1B, near FT.

DH: Yoshida v R/ Refsnyder v L

1B: Devers 

LF: Anthony 

CF: Duran (Rafaela as late inning D w Duran moving to LF)

RF: Abreu v R/ Rafaela v L

[jdc69]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Considering how Devers seemed to be saying he disliked not being out of the field, I would think he'd be agreeable to playing 1B over DH. He must realize he's not playing 3B, anymore for the Sox, even if Bregman bolts after 2025. Mayer is ML ready. Devers knows this.

I don't want to presume I know what a plyer feels or wants: I often criticize other posters for doing that, but I think he would likely say yes to 1B, just maybe not now or mid season 2025. Maybe, Sox brass does not want to "stir the beast" after what happened, this past winter, but I'd think it has to be something they have thought of.

To me, Casas still has a lot of slack on his "leash," so there is no big hurry, but if one option would be to have Devers play or share time at 1B, once the leash is as tight as it gets, then he needs to start practicing at 1B, pronto.

We could end up with some sort of DH/1B share, where Devers and Casas share 1B and DH about 50-50, at least until we find out if Devers is better on D or not, or give Yoshida his shot at DH (maybe Refsnyder v LHPs) and go with Devers at 1B, near FT.

DH: Yoshida v R/ Refsnyder v L

1B: Devers 

LF: Anthony 

CF: Duran (Rafaela as late inning D w Duran moving to LF)

RF: Abreu v R/ Rafaela v L

Agreed. If he wants it, he should be able to have it. He's been our star for awhile and a little loyalty goes a long way. Of course only if it's an upgrade which, with some practice, it would be. As someone on here pointed out, you can't just put him on 1st without training. Youkilis did it though and he became a gold glover.

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

Agreed. If he wants it, he should be able to have it. He's been our star for awhile and a little loyalty goes a long way. Of course only if it's an upgrade which, with some practice, it would be. As someone on here pointed out, you can't just put him on 1st without training. Youkilis did it though and he became a gold glover.

Yes, he should not be put out there in a game, until he's had plenty of practice and he looks okay and feels okay. That practice should start soon, if the option is to be there.

The thing is, Casas ha set the bar so low, on defense, that I find it hard to think Devers can't get to equal in a pretty short time.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

47 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Considering how Devers seemed to be saying he disliked not being out of the field, I would think he'd be agreeable to playing 1B over DH. He must realize he's not playing 3B, anymore for the Sox, even if Bregman bolts after 2025. Mayer is ML ready. Devers knows this.

I don't want to presume I know what a plyer feels or wants: I often criticize other posters for doing that, but I think he would likely say yes to 1B, just maybe not now or mid season 2025. Maybe, Sox brass does not want to "stir the beast" after what happened, this past winter, but I'd think it has to be something they have thought of.

To me, Casas still has a lot of slack on his "leash," so there is no big hurry, but if one option would be to have Devers play or share time at 1B, once the leash is as tight as it gets, then he needs to start practicing at 1B, pronto.

We could end up with some sort of DH/1B share, where Devers and Casas share 1B and DH about 50-50, at least until we find out if Devers is better on D or not, or give Yoshida his shot at DH (maybe Refsnyder v LHPs) and go with Devers at 1B, near FT.

DH: Yoshida v R/ Refsnyder v L

1B: Devers 

LF: Anthony 

CF: Duran (Rafaela as late inning D w Duran moving to LF)

RF: Abreu v R/ Rafaela v L

casas is hitting .180 and devers at .225.

Doesn't sound like an ideal DH combo to me.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

casas is hitting .180 and devers at .225.

Doesn't sound like an ideal DH combo to me.

BA is not everything, and again, what someone has done in one month is not who they are.

[mvp 78]

Devers's current 119 wRC+ would have been 9th best DH wRC+ in 2024. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Red Sox Manager Makes Bold Move with Casas - Heavy Sports

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

BA is not everything, and again, what someone has done in one month is not who they are.

It hasn't been 1 month for either of them. They're struggles date back to last year.

[moonslav59]

41 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

It hasn't been 1 month for either of them. They're struggles date back to last year.

Broken record.

Even 2-3 monts is not who someone is and will forever be.

Do you actually believe that?

BTW, Casas hit .800 in 2024, including over 1.000 in his last 50 PAs and .778 over his last 175 PAs.

Both Devers and Casas were dealing with injury.

You cut no slack.

[mvp 78]

He has a positive OAA and DRS too... 😤

[Larry Cook]

Any chance we could teach Hamilton to be a great bunter and let his feet help him to get on base???

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

58 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Broken record.

Even 2-3 monts is not who someone is and will forever be.

Do you actually believe that?

BTW, Casas hit .800 in 2024, including over 1.000 in his last 50 PAs and .778 over his last 175 PAs.

Both Devers and Casas were dealing with injury.

You cut no slack.

And I could just as easily claim that you are a broken record.

Regardless of injury, the fact is that they have both struggled for much more than a month.

And whether you like it or not, that is who they are until they change it.

[Nick]

This would be a good time to place Rafaela on IL, make sure his rib injury doesn't get worse and bring up Anthony.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

And I could just as easily claim that you are a broken record.

Regardless of injury, the fact is that they have both struggled for much more than a month.

And whether you like it or not, that is who they are until they change it.

Players go up and down all the time- hardly any stay even all the time.

Explain why you think how someone has done in the just the last 81 games is more important or telling than any other time frame or combination of time frames.

For example, if a player is hitting .800 over the last 4o games and 16o games, but .600 over the last 80 games, why should we see him as a .600 guy, until he proves otherwise? 

Plus, when a player's numbers are affected by an injury, shouldn't that temper your judgment,, some?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Players go up and down all the time- hardly any stay even all the time.

Explain why you think how someone has done in the just the last 81 games is more important or telling than any other time frame or combination of time frames.

For example, if a player is hitting .800 over the last 4o games and 16o games, but .600 over the last 80 games, why should we see him as a .600 guy, until he proves otherwise? 

Plus, when a player's numbers are affected by an injury, shouldn't that temper your judgment,, some?

Never said that a player's numbers aren't affected by injury, in fact quite the opposite.

Shoulders are very tricky and this may be the new normal for devers is what I said. Then again, it may not be.

Only time will tell.

[moonslav59]

31 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Never said that a player's numbers aren't affected by injury, in fact quite the opposite.

Shoulders are very tricky and this may be the new normal for devers is what I said. Then again, it may not be.

Only time will tell.

I didn't say you said injuries didn't matter. My point is about how firmly you seem to think just the last 80 games is who a player is, "until he proves otherwise."  What is that based on, and why is that number so much more telling than others?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I didn't say you said injuries didn't matter. My point is about how firmly you seem to think just the last 80 games is who a player is, "until he proves otherwise."  What is that based on, and why is that number so much more telling than others?

It's based on that is how they are performing. Pretty simple.