A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, Old Red said:

We’re really talking about OPS here? 0-16 is plain, and simple. 0-16. 12 K’s. He’s only hit the ball 4 times.

The other poster said his OPS was .552.  I tried to let it pass, but I just couldn't.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

I think he’s just all out of whack from picking up bad habits when his shoulders were bothering him last year. All reports have said he has had no problems whatsoever with either shoulder since he has shown up at ST, and that’s what I’m going with until I hear different.

If he was 100% healthy, we didn't he even pick up a bat this offseason? It makes no sense. He doesn't look right at all. He looks completely uncomfortable up there.

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

1. Fix his batting stance so it's not so wide open. It's more extreme than it has ever been. At least get it back to '23 levels.

2. Give him a day off. 

3. Second opinion the shoulder injury. Lots of players push themselves through injury. Mayer did it in '23 and it wrecked his numbers.

4. Have a talk with Cora. Remember, Cora is a guy who has said "this player should be back, he's healthy, it's just a pain tolerance thing" or whatever. He did this last year with Casas. Maybe Cora needs to reevaluate this position. Maybe he's leaning on Devers too much? 

I have a really, really bad feeling about our hitting coaches, Fatse and Lawson.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Anyway, nobody look at NIck Pivetta's line from yesterday. 

At least the Sox didn't trade him for "a future All-Star," according to the other team's GM.

Can we really blame this Small Suckitude Start all on Raffy? After four games on the road vs. a good team, Boston leads the American League in Strikeouts, but more importantly, in Left On Base. 

The Red Sox are batting .146 with Runners In Scoring Position (6-for-41). Two guys each have two of those hits, Abreu (2-for-3) and Campbell (2-for-4). Devers is 0-for-4 with two walks with RISP.

That means everyone else is 2-for-30... on an offense some of us have called overrated since last year.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

1. Fix his batting stance so it's not so wide open. It's more extreme than it has ever been. At least get it back to '23 levels.

2. Give him a day off. 

3. Second opinion the shoulder injury. Lots of players push themselves through injury. Mayer did it in '23 and it wrecked his numbers.

4. Have a talk with Cora. Remember, Cora is a guy who has said "this player should be back, he's healthy, it's just a pain tolerance thing" or whatever. He did this last year with Casas. Maybe Cora needs to reevaluate this position. Maybe he's leaning on Devers too much? 

Raffy most likely is getting all kinds of advice, and probably more than he needs. Once again if you watched the pregame show yesterday you would have heard from Cora, and that he has talked with Raffy.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

If he was 100% healthy, we didn't he even pick up a bat this offseason? It makes no sense. He doesn't look right at all. He looks completely uncomfortable up there.

Once again Cora explained all that at the start of ST.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I have a really, really bad feeling about our hitting coaches, Fatse and Lawson.  

We’re blaming the hitting coaches for Raffy being NEVER Devers after only 4 games?

[Old Red]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The other poster said his OPS was .552.  I tried to let it pass, but I just couldn't.

0-16 is 0-16, and 12K’s are 12 K’s. NOTHING else is needed.

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I have a really, really bad feeling about our hitting coaches, Fatse and Lawson.  

Them allowing him to have such an extreme stance and then looking so brutal is not great!

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Once again Cora explained all that at the start of ST.

What's the quote, bubs? 

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

We’re blaming the hitting coaches for Raffy being NEVER Devers after only 4 games?

The certifiable way to show that you don't have an argument is to just run with a dumb nickname. 

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

At least the Sox didn't trade him for "a future All-Star," according to the other team's GM.

Can we really blame this Small Suckitude Start all on Raffy? After four games on the road vs. a good team, Boston leads the American League in Strikeouts, but more importantly, in Left On Base. 

The Red Sox are batting .146 with Runners In Scoring Position (6-for-41). Two guys each have two of those hits, Abreu (2-for-3) and Campbell (2-for-4). Devers is 0-for-4 with two walks with RISP.

That means everyone else is 2-for-30... on an offense some of us have called overrated since last year.

Sox being 1-3 isn't the end of the world. I'm not worried about it. I'm worried about the health of Devers' shoulder considering they let him play through it last season and let Crawford play through a knee issue last season that now has Crawford on the IL. Raffy has had rough stretches before, but he's never looked this bad. Something is up. 

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The other poster said his OPS was .552.  I tried to let it pass, but I just couldn't.

Always looking for a fight, aren't you... 🫣

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

What's the quote, bubs? 

You always want a quote on an interview that Cora did. We’ve already went through all this when Cora explained all about how he was behind in his conditioning in an interview at the start of ST. He explained it all in that interview in great detail, but yet you guys keep speculating. He talked yesterday how he has talked to Raffy. If you watched you might possibly know more of what’s going on.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The certifiable way to show that you don't have an argument is to just run with a dumb nickname. 

GOshida/NOshida. Devers Forevers/Never Devers. It all fits.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You always want a quote on an interview that Cora did. We’ve already went through all this when Cora explained all about how he was behind in his conditioning in an interview at the start of ST. He explained it all in that interview in great detail, but yet you guys keep speculating. He talked yesterday how he has talked to Raffy. If you watched you might possibly know more of what’s going on.

LOL, ok. 

[Hitch]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Sox being 1-3 isn't the end of the world. I'm not worried about it. I'm worried about the health of Devers' shoulder considering they let him play through it last season and let Crawford play through a knee issue last season that now has Crawford on the IL. Raffy has had rough stretches before, but he's never looked this bad. Something is up. 

Yup, (though I suspect that being DH is also playing a large - if not the biggest - part in where he's at when at the plate). 

1-3 against a lot of people's favourites for the AL pennant is no drama, especially as the only thing that let us down was hitting (with RISP the biggest killer of all). We're a good team, we just haven't clicked out of the gate. It happens. People were quick to write the Yankees off all of last week, and now the same people are in a panic because they've won their first 3.

It's like some people start every new season of baseball forgetting or blocking out everything they've seen and know of baseball from before. 

BUT, Devers is a concern no doubt about it.

[Hitch]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You always want a quote on an interview that Cora did. We’ve already went through all this when Cora explained all about how he was behind in his conditioning in an interview at the start of ST. He explained it all in that interview in great detail, but yet you guys keep speculating. He talked yesterday how he has talked to Raffy. If you watched you might possibly know more of what’s going on.

If you're going to state things as fact, it's not unreasonable to ask you to supply those facts. Not everyone has the time or opportunity to watch and read everything said about every player, coach, or management at the club. It's not an attack on you, it's wanting to know why you're stating something so confidently. 

[Hitch]

9 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yup, (though I suspect that being DH is also playing a large - if not the biggest - part in where he's at when at the plate). 

1-3 against a lot of people's favourites for the AL pennant is no drama, especially as the only thing that let us down was hitting (with RISP the biggest killer of all). We're a good team, we just haven't clicked out of the gate. It happens. People were quick to write the Yankees off all of last week, and now the same people are in a panic because they've won their first 3.

It's like some people start every new season of baseball forgetting or blocking out everything they've seen and know of baseball from before. 

BUT, Devers is a concern no doubt about it.

One thing to add to this however - this not being able to hit with RISP is not just a 'this year' problem. I feel like it's Groundhog Day with this particular stat/issue. And that falls on the coaching, too.

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

LOL, ok. 

It just amazes me that you can get all kinds of information straight from the horse’s mouth (Cora) who does interviews before, and after games on NESN, but choose to be left in the dark, and speculate on things that have already been explained in detail.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Hitch said:

If you're going to state things as fact, it's not unreasonable to ask you to supply those facts. Not everyone has the time or opportunity to watch and read everything said about every player, coach, or management at the club. It's not an attack on you, it's wanting to know why you're stating something so confidently. 

As I’ve stated many, many times, because I heard Cora in the interview. Simple as that. The interviews are All out there to go back, and listen to, so I’m just stating what Cora has said. That’s a Fact. It’s not something I make up.

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yup, (though I suspect that being DH is also playing a large - if not the biggest - part in where he's at when at the plate). 

1-3 against a lot of people's favourites for the AL pennant is no drama, especially as the only thing that let us down was hitting (with RISP the biggest killer of all). We're a good team, we just haven't clicked out of the gate. It happens. People were quick to write the Yankees off all of last week, and now the same people are in a panic because they've won their first 3.

It's like some people start every new season of baseball forgetting or blocking out everything they've seen and know of baseball from before. 

BUT, Devers is a concern no doubt about it.

Some people believe DH is playing a part of it. IDK. Maybe? Take a call from Papi or whoever. 

I think the Sox looked fine enough. Aside from the top of the order starting slow, there was mostly good stuff to look forward to. Campbell and Wilyer both played well (even thought people wanted to crap all over Campbell after one game in typical fashion). Wong's arm looks healthy. Narvaez looks good behind the plate. Bregman is solid. The bullpen pitched well.  

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

As I’ve stated many, many times, because I heard Cora in the interview. Simple as that. The interviews are All out there to go back, and listen to, so I’m just stating what Cora has said. That’s a Fact. It’s not something I make up.

I'm not suggesting you are making things up, I'm saying it takes two minutes to add a link to the thing you're stating that explains the situation clearly. It's easier for the person doing the stating as they know where to look/search for as they saw the original corresponding piece. 

It's a conversation board, not a blog. It just helps the conversation, and for other people to have a wider understanding of situations. It's not asking much. 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It just amazes me that you can get all kinds of information straight from the horse’s mouth (Cora) who does interviews before, and after games on NESN, but choose to be left in the dark, and speculate on things that have already been explained in detail.

Give me the quote then? 

[mvp 78]

Or we can just go with Paplebum's theory: Devers is fat.

“Maybe he’s out of shape,” Papelbon said. “Maybe we gotta trim a little bit of fat, Jim. You know what happens when you trim fat?”

“Well, we know they’re not in hitting shape, right? Because they’re not hitting. OK,” Rice replied. “We’re talking about trimming fat. What happens?”

“Pigs squeal,” Papelbon answered. “I’m just saying, you trim fat, pigs squeal,” Papelbon repeated. “That’s what you’re looking for, your pigs to squeal. And hit home runs. But is it the shoulders? Is he in shape? We don’t know these things. But to me, it looks like the swing is just a little bit behind.”

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

46 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I have a really, really bad feeling about our hitting coaches, Fatse and Lawson.  

Ironically, Campbell bought into organizational advice on how to improve, and worked on the changes so diligently that he made the majors in one year.

Maybe it just takes old dogs longer to learn new tricks. It worked in 2018 when JD Martinez helped younger guys improve, and in '21 when Schwarber did the same. Hopefully, Bregman can make a similar impact and impart different perspectives.

Meanwhile, an offense that strikes out as much as the Red Sox has major issues, and is doomed to lose many frustrating games.

[Old Red]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Give me the quote then? 

What quote do you want? Listen to the interview. To say no means you just don’t want the facts, and what was actually said, and how it was actually said. It’s ALL there. 

[Hitch]

Before Sunday’s game, Cora mentioned he and the hitting coaches spoke with Devers about tightening his stance to create a better base.

“If you’re not grounded, you’re not going to be on time,” Cora said.

 

Interesting comments from Cora last night. I saw no evidence of a tightening of the stance. It's wider than I've ever seen

[notin]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Or we can just go with Paplebum's theory: Devers is fat.

“Maybe he’s out of shape,” Papelbon said. “Maybe we gotta trim a little bit of fat, Jim. You know what happens when you trim fat?”

“Well, we know they’re not in hitting shape, right? Because they’re not hitting. OK,” Rice replied. “We’re talking about trimming fat. What happens?”

“Pigs squeal,” Papelbon answered. “I’m just saying, you trim fat, pigs squeal,” Papelbon repeated. “That’s what you’re looking for, your pigs to squeal. And hit home runs. But is it the shoulders? Is he in shape? We don’t know these things. But to me, it looks like the swing is just a little bit behind.”

Papelbon wants pigs to hit home runs?

[Larry Cook]

23 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm just afraid that whatever the issue is with his shoulders, it's debilitating in a career-threatening way.   

Devers bat speed is definitely less than early last year. Is that because he needs surgery to fix his shoulders???? Maybe an mri is needed to show the extent (if any) if the damage????