Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[moonslav59]

Montgomery would even be the #2 Jordan on the White Sox minor league team once managed by Terry Francona!

 

He’d be the number one Jordan on all MLB teams.

[Bellhorn04]

If he's your 2, it's fine. If he's your 3, you have a very good rotation and that's what the best teams should strive for.

 

He was #13 in MLB this year in fWAR, so the real argument is whether he's a #1.

 

Of course the whole numbering thing is pretty silly anyway.

[Old Red]

And you post in caps: it’s a STRETCH, so what’s the difference?

 

The biggest difference with me in the in the Monty discussion is that I fully understand why you guys feel differently from me on how we rank Monty. You guys look at stats differently than I do, and what stats that are more important to me might not be important to you, and vice versa. We obviously don’t agree, but at least I understand why. I don’t say someone doesn’t know what they are talking about, because someone says something different from me, or that it’s ridiculous if someone else’s rankings do not match mine, but you guys do, and it doesn’t change anything. Monty could be ranked anywhere between 1-5, and it’s not going to affect how he pitches one way, or the other.

[Bellhorn04]

Imagine someone not agreeing with someone on here, and of course it’s the other person that’s wrong. I’ll take Sean McAdam’s opinion on this. I know you can’t be trying to convince me you’re right, so it must be everyone is trying to convince yourselves, because it’s been nonstop since i mentioned Monty, W-L record, and journeyman in the same post. Like I always say there are all kinds of rankings, and opinions out there on everything, and I like to hear them all. I guess some just don’t. Oh well to each its own. Either way it doesn’t change anything in the big scheme of things.

 

If Sean McAdam was here I'd tell him too.

 

This is about simple numbers. About facts and not opinions.

[Bellhorn04]

Montgomery was T9 in bWAR for pitchers in 2023 with 4.1. 13 in fWAR.

[Old Red]

If Sean McAdam was here I'd tell him too.

 

This is about simple numbers. About facts and not opinions.

 

You can tell him whatever you want, but it’s still not going to change anything. Obviously he looks at things differently than you just like I do, and still going on about it a day later has not done any good, or changed anyone’s mind either. Sean’s been around a long time, and is really knowledgeable, and I’ll take his opinion over yours, but I won’t say you don’t know what you are talking about. Sean might though.

[Old Red]

Montgomery was T9 in bWAR for pitchers in 2023 with 4.1. 13 in fWAR.

 

I’d be paying someone to win games myself.

[Bellhorn04]

You can tell him whatever you want, but it’s still not going to change anything. Obviously he looks at things differently than you just like I do, and still going on about it a day later has not done any good, or changed anyone’s mind either. Sean’s been around a long time, and is really knowledgeable, and I’ll take his opinion over yours, but I won’t say you don’t know what you are talking about. Sean might though.

 

When it comes to something like a pitcher's performance, I'll take the numbers over anyone's opinion. Especially when we're looking at a 3-4 year sample now.

[moonslav59]

The biggest difference with me in the in the Monty discussion is that I fully understand why you guys feel differently from me on how we rank Monty. You guys look at stats differently than I do, and what stats that are more important to me might not be important to you, and vice versa. We obviously don’t agree, but at least I understand why. I don’t say someone doesn’t know what they are talking about, because someone says something different from me, or that it’s ridiculous if someone else’s rankings do not match mine, but you guys do, and it doesn’t change anything. Monty could be ranked anywhere between 1-5, and it’s not going to affect how he pitches one way, or the other.

 

Didn’t seem like you understood when you all capped STRETCH.

 

We understand your view. A 25-5 pitcher with a 3.75 ERA is as good or better than a 10-20 pitcher with a2.00 ERA.

 

It’s not hard to understand you, when you use your words in common ways.

[Bellhorn04]

I’d be paying someone to win games myself.

 

Nola was 32-31 over the last 3 years and DD paid him 172 million. And DD is not some stat-nerdy type, but he knows W-L record doesn't mean much anymore.

[moonslav59]

I’d be paying someone to win games myself.

 

You do realise teams win and lose.

 

Why not apply w-l to every player to some extent?

[moonslav59]

Nola was 32-31 over the last 3 years and DD paid him 172 million. And DD is not some stat-nerdy type, but he knows W-L record doesn't mean much anymore.

 

A pitcher who lets up less runs is more likely to lead a team to a win, if all else is equal, as in run support and the D behind him.

[Old Red]

Nola was 32-31 over the last 3 years and DD paid him 172 million. And DD is not some stat-nerdy type, but he knows W-L record doesn't mean much anymore.

 

I said myself. I’ve always said I don’t like $300M+ contracts no matter who they are for, and for how long, but I understand that is not the way things are done.

[Bellhorn04]

Knowledgeable Yankee fans will tell you that trading Montgomery for Bader was just one more horrible move by Cashman. Knowledgeable Yankee fans can't believe Cashman is still around.

[Bellhorn04]

What do Monty and Gray have in common?

 

They both pitched better after leaving the Yankees. Gray said they wanted him to throw too many sliders. Seems he was right and they were wrong.

[Old Red]

When it comes to something like a pitcher's performance, I'll take the numbers over anyone's opinion. Especially when we're looking at a 3-4 year sample now.

 

And like I have repeated hundreds of times over. There are many different opinions out there, and how they view stats can cause the differing of opinions like in the Monty case. Whether he’s called a journeyman, an Ace, a #1, or a #3 it is not going to affect how someone pitches. Like I said I get your views, and opinions, but just don’t agree.

[Bellhorn04]

Gray BTW threw 184 innings this year with a 2.79 ERA, but his W-L record was a somewhat silly-looking 8-8.

 

The W-L record is dead as a useful number.

[Old Red]

You do realise teams win and lose.

 

Why not apply w-l to every player to some extent?

 

What have I told you for the last two years? Wins, and losses is what matters most. Does Raffy get a W-L next to his name after every game? No! A pitcher does. It’s not really that complicated, and hasn’t changed through the years. At least not yet.

[moonslav59]

I said myself. I’ve always said I don’t like $300M+ contracts no matter who they are for, and for how long, but I understand that is not the way things are done.

 

What does $300M have to do with DD and Nola?

[Bellhorn04]

And like I have repeated hundreds of times over. There are many different opinions out there, and how they view stats can cause the differing of opinions like in the Monty case. Whether he’s called a journeyman, an Ace, a #1, or a #3 it is not going to affect how someone pitches. Like I said I get your views, and opinions, but just don’t agree.

 

But you don't have any numbers to back you up, other than the obsolete one of W-L record.

 

I still have some old school in me. ERA can still impress me. But W-L record has been buried.

 

deGrom won back to back Cy's.

 

His average W-L record for those 2 seasons?

 

10.5-8.5.

 

Dead and buried.

[moonslav59]

What have I told you for the last two years? Wins, and losses is what matters most. Does Raffy get a W-L next to his name after every game? No! A pitcher does. It’s not really that complicated, and hasn’t changed through the years. At least not yet.

 

Just because I think your opinion is absurd, doesn’t mean I don’t understand it, or know you’ve held the idea for years.

[Old Red]

Gray BTW threw 184 innings this year with a 2.79 ERA, but his W-L record was a somewhat silly-looking 8-8.

 

The W-L record is dead as a useful number.

 

Another thing I keep saying. You’re not convincing me, but just convincing yourself. I do understand that W-L record doesn’t tell the whole story on how good a pitcher is, but I just put more value in it than you, and your cohorts do?

[moonslav59]

But you don't have any numbers to back you up, other than the obsolete one of W-L record.

 

I still have some old school in me. ERA can still impress me. But W-L record has been buried.

 

deGrom won back to back Cy's.

 

His average W-L record for those 2 seasons?

 

10.5-8.5.

 

Dead and buried.

 

Imagine if Bloom had signed only the best winning % pitchers, many due to big run support.

 

I can hear Red, now.

[Old Red]

Just because I think your opinion is absurd, doesn’t mean I don’t understand it, or know you’ve held the idea for years.

 

Like I asked does Raffy get a W-L next to his name after every game? Why is that?

[Old Red]

But you don't have any numbers to back you up, other than the obsolete one of W-L record.

 

I still have some old school in me. ERA can still impress me. But W-L record has been buried.

 

deGrom won back to back Cy's.

 

His average W-L record for those 2 seasons?

 

10.5-8.5.

 

Dead and buried.

I like ERA, but I like hits per inning along with BB, and K’s per innings as well.

[moonslav59]

Another thing I keep saying. You’re not convincing me, but just convincing yourself. I do understand that W-L record doesn’t tell the whole story on how good a pitcher is, but I just put more value in it than you, and your cohorts do?

 

How much value?

 

Rank these guys with equal IP:

 

20-5 4.00

18-7 3.50

15-10 3.00

12-12 2.50

10-15 2.00

5-20 1.50

 

All about the same?

[Old Red]

But you don't have any numbers to back you up, other than the obsolete one of W-L record.

 

I still have some old school in me. ERA can still impress me. But W-L record has been buried.

 

deGrom won back to back Cy's.

 

His average W-L record for those 2 seasons?

 

10.5-8.5.

 

Dead and buried.

 

Why does some rankings rate Monty lower than others, and said he’s not a frontline pitcher? In your opinion they must be all wrong too. What kind of stats do you think they rely on?

[Old Red]

How much value?

 

Rank these guys with equal IP:

 

20-5 4.00

18-7 3.50

15-10 3.00

12-12 2.50

10-15 2.00

5-20 1.50

 

All about the same?

What does the eye test say? Very important.

[moonslav59]

What does the eye test say? Very important.

 

Assume the same for all

[moonslav59]

What does the eye test say? Very important.

 

Assume same BB/9, K/9 and H/9