Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[notin]

Every 4 years the head of ops departs, is that better?

 

Henry didn't fire Ben, but I don't think it would be accurate to say he had nothing to do with Ben leaving...

 

Ben’s departure was his own choice. Dombrowski stated multiple times he wanted to keep him on. Now it’s entirely possible (and IMO very likely) Ben was facing reduced responsibilities under DD. This is supported by how invisible Mike Hazen was in that role. But it’s still unfair and inaccurate to blame Cherington’s departure on Henry and his volatility.

 

Lucchino was fired by Henry, and really who Dombrowski replaced. But Lucchino was with the Sox much longer than 4 years…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ben’s departure was his own choice. Dombrowski stated multiple times he wanted to keep him on. Now it’s entirely possible (and IMO very likely) Ben was facing reduced responsibilities under DD. This is supported by how invisible Mike Hazen was in that role. But it’s still unfair and inaccurate to blame Cherington’s departure on Henry and his volatility.

 

Lucchino was fired by Henry, and really who Dombrowski replaced. But Lucchino was with the Sox much longer than 4 years…

 

Comments from Chicago on the White Sox-Braves trade? A 5-for-1 (the one being a reliever), with the return including a former All-Star starting pitcher who's only 26, plus Nicky Lopez, a glove-first second baseman that should improve the D -- the stated goal of GM Getz (do either of these players sound like something Breslow may be interested: a starter he and Bailey could maybe fix, plus a 2B?)

 

What Getz got for a pitcher with a 6.79 ERA may not be matched by Breslow dealing the older Chris Martin, but it may be worth shopping the AL's 12th-place finisher in the Cy Young voting.

[notin]

Comments from Chicago on the White Sox-Braves trade? A 5-for-1 (the one being a reliever), with the return including a former All-Star starting pitcher who's only 26, plus Nicky Lopez, a glove-first second baseman that should improve the D -- the stated goal of GM Getz (do either of these players sound like something Breslow may be interested: a starter he and Bailey could maybe fix, plus a 2B?)

 

What Getz got for a pitcher with a 6.79 ERA may not be matched by Breslow dealing the older Chris Martin, but it may be worth shopping the AL's 12th-place finisher in the Cy Young voting.

 

I think this deal was more about unloading some potential non-tender candidates than it was the value of relief pitching. Soroka is a small gamble for the White Sox, whose only hope is he can stay healthy until the trade deadline. Given Soroka has pitched in 10 games over the last 4 years, this is not a given. His inclusion could be completely forgotten by May, and there’sa better chance Chicago non-tenders him than there is they trade him in July.

 

Of the rest, Shewmake was the big name, and the addition of Shuster was the bigger shock. Unlike Soroka, he’s healthy and not eligible for arbitration…

[Bellhorn04]

Ben’s departure was his own choice. Dombrowski stated multiple times he wanted to keep him on. Now it’s entirely possible (and IMO very likely) Ben was facing reduced responsibilities under DD. This is supported by how invisible Mike Hazen was in that role. But it’s still unfair and inaccurate to blame Cherington’s departure on Henry and his volatility.

 

Lucchino was fired by Henry, and really who Dombrowski replaced. But Lucchino was with the Sox much longer than 4 years…

 

Of course Ben was "facing reduced responsibilities". Dombrowski was going to be making the baseball decisions. He always has.

 

If you don't want to pin Ben's departure on Henry's impatience that's fine, but I think you're in kind of a minority on that. In fact I've never heard anyone else say it.

 

As for Lucchino, I'm pretty sure he just retired.

[Old Red]

Of course Ben was "facing reduced responsibilities". Dombrowski was going to be making the baseball decisions. He always has.

 

If you don't want to pin Ben's departure on Henry's impatience that's fine, but I think you're in kind of a minority on that. In fact I've never heard anyone else say it.

 

As for Lucchino, I'm pretty sure he just retired.

 

JH didn’t fire Ben, but bringing in DD I think JH pretty much knew that Ben would leave, so while not in actuality Ben was fired,but by bringing in DD brought the same results. Agree on Larry.

[Bellhorn04]

JH didn’t fire Ben, but bringing in DD I think JH pretty much knew that Ben would leave, so while not in actuality Ben was fired,but by bringing in DD brought the same results. Agree on Larry.

 

It's possible that Henry didn't know Ben would leave or didn't care. What's not possible is that DD was brought aboard to do anything but take over as the main decision-maker. And he went on to do exactly what anyone who follows baseball would have expected him to do-spend and trade and go after a title. And was rewarded for his efforts with the boot. Then Henry goes in the opposite direction with Bloom, who also does what seems to be expected, and is also rewarded with the boot.

[notin]

Of course Ben was "facing reduced responsibilities". Dombrowski was going to be making the baseball decisions. He always has.

 

If you don't want to pin Ben's departure on Henry's impatience that's fine, but I think you're in kind of a minority on that. In fact I've never heard anyone else say it.

 

As for Lucchino, I'm pretty sure he just retired.

 

I don’t really care if I’m in the minority; it’s just how the facts played out. If you asked several thousands of Americans to name every President who was impeached, the majority would still say Nixon. Was Nixon going to be impeached? Yes, most definitely. Did he resign because he was going to be impeached and removed from office? Almost certainly. But was he actually impeached? No, he was not. And that is a fact.

Edited November 17, 2023 by notin

[mvp 78]

JH didn’t fire Ben, but bringing in DD I think JH pretty much knew that Ben would leave, so while not in actuality Ben was fired,but by bringing in DD brought the same results. Agree on Larry.

 

If this is the case, why didn't BOH leave this offseason?

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t really care if I’m in the minority; it’s just how the facts played out. If you asked several thousands of Americans to name every President who was impeached, the majority would still say Nixon. Was Nixon going to be impeached? Yes, most definitely. Did he resign because he was going to be impeached and removed from office? Almost certainly. But was he actually impeached? No, he was not. And that is a fact.

 

So you think Lucchino retired mid-season?

 

Wikipedia says Lucchino retired at the end of the 2015 season.

 

Yes, it's a fact that Ben wasn't fired, nobody disputes that. I'm just not sure why you think it's unfair to Henry to suggest that Ben was being replaced in the role of roster-constructor and naturally didn't care too much for it...

 

And the history since then cements it: Henry is impatient and mercurial and fires guys even when they seem to be doing what he wants...

[Bellhorn04]

If this is the case, why didn't BOH leave this offseason?

 

What did BOH actually do before and what will he actually do now? Pretty hard to answer this without knowing.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t really care if I’m in the minority; it’s just how the facts played out. If you asked several thousands of Americans to name every President who was impeached, the majority would still say Nixon. Was Nixon going to be impeached? Yes, most definitely. Did he resign because he was going to be impeached and removed from office? Almost certainly. But was he actually impeached? No, he was not. And that is a fact.

 

Also a fact that he was pardoned.

 

It's one thing to know the facts, and another to think critically about the realities that underlie the facts...

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure what the issue is. Did most of us want Ben and Bloom to stay longer?

 

I don't think it's volatile to drive away two guys who led the team to 3 last place finishes in 4 years.

 

The issue is really about 2 guys and why they left or were fired: Theo and DD. I see no pattern of volatility, here.

 

Argue that JH & Co. made mistakes in hiring Ben & Bloom, in the first place, if you must, but replacing them was what most Sox fans likely wanted and thought was the right thing to do. One can argue, both were hired to do something many Sox fans don't want to accept, namely rebuild a team, and to some extent, that's what they both did.

 

Theo wanted more control, and chose to move on, when he was not given it.

 

DD, in my opinion, was not willing to go along with the "new plan" of a major rebuild, which included a massive tightening of the budget after 2019 and a priority of not trading away anymore top prospects for immediate gains. IMO, had he stayed, it would not have worked out for either party, and he'd probably have left the following year, anyway. Just my take.

 

To me, the only real similarity in departures was between Ben and Bloom, in terms of their 4 year histories, failure rates and a shift in team plans about to start. However, one was fired and one left when it became known his powers would be greatly diminished. That is a difference, but to me, it doesn't matter much, but it also does not support the claim that JH is volatile, IMO. They both left because they failed. Keeping them could have been viewed as volatile. Dareing a fan and media revolt.

[Old Red]

If this is the case, why didn't BOH leave this offseason?

 

Did he have somewhere else to go? He’s gotten a different job title, but does he actually have a different job? He wasn’t the head guy either, so there is a number of possibilities on why he didn’t leave.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure what the issue is. Did most of us want Ben and Bloom to stay longer?

 

I don't think it's volatile to drive away two guys who led the team to 3 last place finishes in 4 years.

 

The issue is really about 2 guys and why they left or were fired: Theo and DD. I see no pattern of volatility, here.

 

Argue that JH & Co. made mistakes in hiring Ben & Bloom, in the first place, if you must, but replacing them was what most Sox fans likely wanted and thought was the right thing to do. One can argue, both were hired to do something many Sox fans don't want to accept, namely rebuild a team, and to some extent, that's what they both did.

 

Theo wanted more control, and chose to move on, when he was not given it.

 

DD, in my opinion, was not willing to go along with the "new plan" of a major rebuild, which included a massive tightening of the budget after 2019 and a priority of not trading away anymore top prospects for immediate gains. IMO, had he stayed, it would not have worked out for either party, and he'd probably have left the following year, anyway. Just my take.

 

To me, the only real similarity in departures was between Ben and Bloom, in terms of their 4 year histories, failure rates and a shift in team plans about to start. However, one was fired and one left when it became known his powers would be greatly diminished. That is a difference, but to me, it doesn't matter much, but it also does not support the claim that JH is volatile, IMO. They both left because they failed. Keeping them could have been viewed as volatile. Dareing a fan and media revolt.

 

"Shifts in plans" is a defining characteristic of "volatile".

[Old Red]

It's possible that Henry didn't know Ben would leave or didn't care. What's not possible is that DD was brought aboard to do anything but take over as the main decision-maker. And he went on to do exactly what anyone who follows baseball would have expected him to do-spend and trade and go after a title. And was rewarded for his efforts with the boot. Then Henry goes in the opposite direction with Bloom, who also does what seems to be expected, and is also rewarded with the boot.

 

The big difference is DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS title.

[Old Red]

I don’t really care if I’m in the minority; it’s just how the facts played out. If you asked several thousands of Americans to name every President who was impeached, the majority would still say Nixon. Was Nixon going to be impeached? Yes, most definitely. Did he resign because he was going to be impeached and removed from office? Almost certainly. But was he actually impeached? No, he was not. And that is a fact.

 

Wow! Comparing Ben to Tricky Dick.

[Bellhorn04]

The big difference is DD had 4 winning seasons, and a WS title.

 

The firing of DD is the clincher of the argument.

[Bellhorn04]

It's a fact that a lot of the folks the Sox were interested in interviewing for the supposedly coveted job opening said no thanks. One can read into that what they want. Sure, maybe it really was family considerations and the like. No way to prove anything, right?

[Old Red]

Wikipedia says Lucchino retired at the end of the 2015 season.

 

Yes, it's a fact that Ben wasn't fired, nobody disputes that. I'm just not sure why you think it's unfair to Henry to suggest that Ben was being replaced in the role of roster-constructor and naturally didn't care too much for it...

 

And the history since then cements it: Henry is impatient and mercurial and fires guys even when they seem to be doing what he wants...

 

I guess they could have kept Bloom around since they have to pay him, and had him be in charge of picking up the trash in Fenway after games, which at least was something he was good at.

[Old Red]

If this is the case, why didn't BOH leave this offseason?

 

Being there for 20+ seasons probably had something to do with it too.

[mvp 78]

It's a fact that a lot of the folks the Sox were interested in interviewing for the supposedly coveted job opening said no thanks. One can read into that what they want. Sure, maybe it really was family considerations and the like. No way to prove anything, right?

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the guys they wanted to interview were either under the tutelage of Dombrowski or good friends with Bloom. Of course those guys were going to say no. It's less about firing and more about WHO was fired IMO.

[mvp 78]

I guess they could have kept Bloom around since they have to pay him, and had him be in charge of picking up the trash in Fenway after games, which at least was something he was good at.

 

Is that Eddie Romero's job title currently?

[moonslav59]

"Shifts in plans" is a defining characteristic of "volatile".

 

I disagree, but I can see how some see it that way.

 

There are times in almost every organization, where there is a shift to or from rebuilding or seriously trying to compete.

 

Even under Theo, it seemed like they "went for it" much harder in some years vs others.

 

Under Ben, the 2013 season was not "planned," IMO. It was supposed to be a rebuild season towards 2014 and beyong being better. (It just didn't turn out that way.)

 

Many of us saw the writing on the wall from 2017-2018, and knew we'd have to regroup and reset, at some point. I don't view the cycle plan as being volatile. I think it's been a successful plan at winning rings every 3-5 years.

 

We are overdue, now.

[Old Red]

Unfortunately, a lot of the guys they wanted to interview were either under the tutelage of Dombrowski or good friends with Bloom. Of course those guys were going to say no. It's less about firing and more about WHO was fired IMO.

 

Now there is probably more truth in that than not. DD has a lot of respect in MLB built up through his many years.

[Old Red]

A big difference too is that LL used to run the Red Sox, but now I don’t know who JH gets his main advice from. Sam?

[moonslav59]

The firing of DD is the clincher of the argument.

 

You think he'd have wanted to stay on through the massive budget cut and change in the organizational shift towards farm-building and the long term future?

 

To me, that was one major reason for the friction that began building up after 2018. Whether DD was told not to trade major prospects or to not spend large and long on anyone beyond the Sale & Nate extensions is something up for debate, but I think it was real. I'm not 100% sure DD would have been the "right GM" for that new direction.

 

One could argue Ben and Bloom were not the "right GMs" to man a team about to go "all in," as well.

 

[moonslav59]

A big difference too is that LL used to run the Red Sox, but now I don’t know who JH gets his main advice from. Sam?

 

I thought you felt it was now Cora.

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree, but I can see how some see it that way.

 

There are times in almost every organization, where there is a shift to or from rebuilding or seriously trying to compete.

 

Even under Theo, it seemed like they "went for it" much harder in some years vs others.

 

Under Ben, the 2013 season was not "planned," IMO. It was supposed to be a rebuild season towards 2014 and beyong being better. (It just didn't turn out that way.)

 

Many of us saw the writing on the wall from 2017-2018, and knew we'd have to regroup and reset, at some point. I don't view the cycle plan as being volatile. I think it's been a successful plan at winning rings every 3-5 years.

 

We are overdue, now.

 

Sorry moon, but winning rings every 3-5 years is not a real plan. The fact that it happened for the Red Sox is just random good fortune.

[Bellhorn04]

You think he'd have wanted to stay on through the massive budget cut and change in the organizational shift towards farm-building and the long term future?

 

To me, that was one major reason for the friction that began building up after 2018. Whether DD was told not to trade major prospects or to not spend large and long on anyone beyond the Sale & Nate extensions is something up for debate, but I think it was real. I'm not 100% sure DD would have been the "right GM" for that new direction.

 

I think you're making the facts fit your narrative. We all do it, of course.

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski said he was shocked by the firing and that Henry never gave him a word of explanation. I see no reason to think he was lying.