A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

True, but they could have spent half his money and kept the claim somewhat valid.

 

There's really no way to validate the Red Sox not making a fully committed effort to retain Betts.

 

Of course if Mookie had fallen off significantly by now, the uproar would not be as great.

 

The fact that he nearly won the MVP again in his 4th season with the Dodgers, while the Sox won 78 games for the second year in a row, keeps the uproar level real loud.

[mvp 78]

Not specific to this instance - but after covering someone with scalding hot tar that burns and blisters any skin not outright removed, what exactly is the point of the feathers?

 

IDK, but we may find out.

[mvp 78]

Humiliation.

 

Would be deserving in this instance.

[mvp 78]

There's really no way to validate the Red Sox not making a fully committed effort to retain Betts.

 

Of course if Mookie had fallen off significantly by now, the uproar would not be as great.

 

The fact that he nearly won the MVP again in his 4th season with the Dodgers, while the Sox won 78 games for the second year in a row, keeps the uproar level real loud.

 

It's one thing that I don't know if I'll ever get over and I wasn't a Mookie superfan.

[moonslav59]

There's really no way to validate the Red Sox not making a fully committed effort to retain Betts.

 

Of course if Mookie had fallen off significantly by now, the uproar would not be as great.

 

The fact that he nearly won the MVP again in his 4th season with the Dodgers, while the Sox won 78 games for the second year in a row, keeps the uproar level real loud.

 

I have always felt letting a generational talent like Betts go was a huge mistake. I still do.

[Randy Red Sox]

With Henry it is all about saving money. Keep raising ticket prices and concession prices and who cares if we finish last again.

[moonslav59]

With Henry it is all about saving money. Keep raising ticket prices and concession prices and who cares if we finish last again.

 

So, spending over $200M per season over the last 2 years was for what reason?

[Randy Red Sox]

So, spending over $200M per season over the last 2 years was for what reason?

 

a good portion of that are contracts DD left the team with. We have dropped to almost the middle of MLB in payroll now. You can't go from 230 million to 100 million in a year or 2. If not for the iNSANE contract given to Trevor Story it would be even lower.

[moonslav59]

a good portion of that are contracts DD left the team with. We have dropped to almost the middle of MLB in payroll now. You can't go from 230 million to 100 million in a year or 2. If not for the iNSANE contract given to Trevor Story it would be even lower.

 

He just extended Devers.

Story, Yoshida and many others were signed after DD.

While the 2020 budget did not come close to replacing the money spent under DD, and the 2021 came close, the last 2 seasons have been bolstered by new spending.

 

If all JH cared about was making money, why sign Devers, Story and Yoshida, among others?

 

Why not spend like PIT or TBR?

 

The 2023 budget had one big contract left over from DD: Sale. That's it. Others from our system, that were here before Bloom, except for Devers, made peanuts.

 

Tax budget numbers:

 

DD

$25.6 Sale

$ 17.5 Devers

No other DD player made over $3M in 2023.

 

Bloom

23.3 Story

18.0 Yoshida (plus posting fee)

16.0 Jansen

10.8 Turner

10.0 Kluber

10.0 Kike

7.5 Martin

7.0 Duvall

6.3 Dugo

5.4 Pivetta

4.0 Paxton

3.0 Bleier (from carry-over Barnes, who was extended by Bloom)

3.0 Mondesi

 

The total player budget was about $200M. Under $44M was on DD.

 

Look, I wish he'd spend more, too, but it's just not true to act like he's stopped spending big.

[moonslav59]

a good portion of that are contracts DD left the team with. We have dropped to almost the middle of MLB in payroll now. You can't go from 230 million to 100 million in a year or 2. If not for the iNSANE contract given to Trevor Story it would be even lower.

 

Even in 2022, more than half the player payroll budget was Bloom's.

[Bellhorn04]

So, spending over $200M per season over the last 2 years was for what reason?

 

The Big Sham.

[mvp 78]

The Big Sham.

 

We're competitive!

[moonslav59]

The Big Sham.

 

I certainly think it's all been a smokescreen or sham, but it's wrong to say JH has stopped spending big.

 

Not "as big," but he has spent a lot since the Story signing, and we haven't even seen the Devers extension kick in, yet.

 

Did we spend wisely? That's debatable.

 

Also, a big reason we have dropped in the spending rankings is that other teams have turned up their spending, big time.

 

We went over the tax line in 2022, after major slashing before the 2020 season. That cannot happen without some major new spending. Arb raises happen every year. That's not the reason we went over.

 

I'm not trying to apologize for JH. I think he made a major blunder by not making sure we kept Betts. I also think that once he left, we could have made a better financial effort to stay relevant, but to say we are not still spending a lot is hyperbole, at best or just plain wrong, at worst.

 

 

 

[Dipre]

a good portion of that are contracts DD left the team with. We have dropped to almost the middle of MLB in payroll now. You can't go from 230 million to 100 million in a year or 2. If not for the iNSANE contract given to Trevor Story it would be even lower.

 

And if a horse had a horn it would be a unicorn. They spend. Spending stupidly was the problem in the first place.

[moonslav59]

We're competitive!

 

That was the sham.

 

They tried to spend just enough to fool the fans into thinking we'd be competitive. The 2021 season allowed them to "prove it." I think they used that season to pretend they were doing the same, when really, we had no business contending in 2021. It was an outlier year.

 

Signing Story and Yoshida, and now the Devers extension may be a sign they truly want to get relevant, but I'm not falling for it, until I see concrete changes.

[sk7326]

I certainly think it's all been a smokescreen or sham, but it's wrong to say JH has stopped spending big.

 

Not "as big," but he has spent a lot since the Story signing, and we haven't even seen the Devers extension kick in, yet.

 

Did we spend wisely? That's debatable.

 

Also, a big reason we have dropped in the spending rankings is that other teams have turned up their spending, big time.

 

We went over the tax line in 2022, after major slashing before the 2020 season. That cannot happen without some major new spending. Arb raises happen every year. That's not the reason we went over.

 

I'm not trying to apologize for JH. I think he made a major blunder by not making sure we kept Betts. I also think that once he left, we could have made a better financial effort to stay relevant, but to say we are not still spending a lot is hyperbole, at best or just plain wrong, at worst.

 

 

 

 

"Not spending" is hyperbole

"Not keeping up with the industry" is not

[Bellhorn04]

"Not spending" is hyperbole

"Not keeping up with the industry" is not

 

Well put.

[moonslav59]

"Not spending" is hyperbole

"Not keeping up with the industry" is not

 

I can live with that, but a couple GMs have gone nutty (TEX & NYM.) I will not ding JH for not matching them, but I do think he should have done more. How much more?

 

Maybe we are closer to agreement than we know.

 

We also had a GM who ignored fixing the top of the rotation, especially after ERod left.

 

Perez & Richards

Wacha & Hill

Kluber & Paxton

 

I don't expect 100% perfection on FA signings, but that wasn't even trying.

[Bellhorn04]

I can live with that, but a couple GMs have gone nutty (TEX & NYM.) I will not ding JH for not matching them, but I do think he should have done more. How much more?

 

Maybe we are closer to agreement than we know.

 

We also had a GM who ignored fixing the top of the rotation, especially after ERod left.

 

Perez & Richards

Wacha & Hill

Kluber & Paxton

 

I don't expect 100% perfection on FA signings, but that wasn't even trying.

 

We know that for 2023 they tried to sign Eovaldi or Eflin, but somehow after missing on those two there was only $10 million left to invest in the rotation.

 

'Twill always be a mystery what the hell Bloom was thinking.

[moonslav59]

"Not spending" is hyperbole

"Not keeping up with the industry" is not

 

I also get the context.

 

When you slash like we did after 2019, and that was after letting Kimbrell and Kelly walk without replacing them, in kind, spending a lot to slowly catch back up is not a winning strategy.

 

We have spent a lot, though, and if JH was just about making money, he'd have spent less. I understand the theory that he needs to spend "just enough" to give fans the appearance of being competitive, so they buy season tickets, game tickets and NESN subscriptions, in order to increase revenues, but I'm not sure he pulled that off.

 

I think the success of 2021 gave JH some leeway to skimp more than he might normally have done.

 

Was Story and Yoshida part of the "scam?" The Devers extensión? Those are expensive scams.

 

I can't see us being highly competitive in 2024 without going up to the second tax line. Maybe 2025, with the loss of Sale might be different.

 

[moonslav59]

We know that for 2023 they tried to sign Eovaldi or Eflin, but somehow after missing on those two there was only $10 million left to invest in the rotation.

 

'Twill always be a mystery what the hell Bloom was thinking.

 

There wasn't a lot left on the table, in terms of the tax line, so I think he just spent it on non pitchers and the pen.

 

As it turned out, our everyday players were lacking on D and over the second half on O, too.

 

I doubt it mattered, but the concept of ignoring the rotation for 4 years bugs the hell out of me.

 

Brez better change that.

Edited December 1, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

There wasn't a lot left on the table, in terms of the tax line, so I think he just spent it on non pitchers.

 

There wasn't a lot left for Mr. Dithers, that's for sure.

 

Supposedly Eovaldi came back looking for the Sox original offer and Bloom said the budget didn't have room any more. That seems like a fairly nasty blunder in itself. A team with a desperate need for starters can't afford $17 million for Eovaldi? Jeezus, nice budgeting and planning to not allow for the chance Eovaldi could still be had.

[moonslav59]

There wasn't a lot left for Mr. Dithers, that's for sure.

 

Supposedly Eovaldi came back looking for the Sox original offer and Bloom said the budget didn't have room any more. That seems like a fairly nasty blunder in itself. A team with a desperate need for starters can't afford $17 million for Eovaldi? Jeezus, nice budgeting and planning to not allow for the chance Eovaldi could still be had.

 

When did Nate come back with hat in hand? (He signed with TEX Dec 27th.)

 

We signed...

 

12/8 Martin

12/13 Jansen

12/15 Yoshida

 

1/6 Turner

1/12 Kluber

1/24 Duvall

 

Any 2 of these last 3 equal the AAV Nate got.

 

Nate vs Kluber & Duvall

Nate vs Kluber & Turner

 

[Bellhorn04]

When did Nate come back with hat in hand? (He signed with TEX Dec 27th.)

 

We signed...

 

12/8 Martin

12/13 Jansen

12/15 Yoshida

 

1/6 Turner

1/12 Kluber

1/24 Duvall

 

Any 2 of these last 3 equal the AAV Nate got.

 

Nate vs Kluber & Duvall

Nate vs Kluber & Turner

 

 

You're right, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but that was the story.

[oldtimer]

I can live with that, but a couple GMs have gone nutty (TEX & NYM.) I will not ding JH for not matching them, but I do think he should have done more. How much more?

 

Maybe we are closer to agreement than we know.

 

We also had a GM who ignored fixing the top of the rotation, especially after ERod left.

 

Perez & Richards

Wacha & Hill

Kluber & Paxton

 

I don't expect 100% perfection on FA signings, but that wasn't even trying.

 

The Mets and the Padres threw a lot of money at players and got poor results. Just spending big on FA's can result in disappointments. Let us hope that when we spend, we get value and that our management is wise enough to have a plan to improve the team and sticks to it. Our contract with Sale has been a disaster and most teams make serious blunders. Good management is critical to our performance going forward.

[Larry Cook]

The Mets and the Padres threw a lot of money at players and got poor results. Just spending big on FA's can result in disappointments. Let us hope that when we spend, we get value and that our management is wise enough to have a plan to improve the team and sticks to it. Our contract with Sale has been a disaster and most teams make serious blunders. Good management is critical to our performance going forward.

 

Team building versus a collection of athletes.

[Randy Red Sox]

I can live with that, but a couple GMs have gone nutty (TEX & NYM.) I will not ding JH for not matching them, but I do think he should have done more. How much more?

 

Maybe we are closer to agreement than we know.

 

We also had a GM who ignored fixing the top of the rotation, especially after ERod left.

 

Perez & Richards

Wacha & Hill

Kluber & Paxton

 

I don't expect 100% perfection on FA signings, but that wasn't even trying.

 

i certainly agree with this post

[mvp 78]

We know that for 2023 they tried to sign Eovaldi or Eflin, but somehow after missing on those two there was only $10 million left to invest in the rotation.

 

'Twill always be a mystery what the hell Bloom was thinking.

 

Thanks to going over in ‘22 for no reason.

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks to going over in ‘22 for no reason.

 

We could also attribute some of it to allocating $33 million of AAV to DH's - Yoshida and Turner.

 

Just horrible decision-making all around.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe Chaim is really s***** at math, and that's why they spent too much in '22 and too little in '23.