Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[harmony]

Paxton & Teoscar!

 

Full Throttle!

https://halohangout.com/posts/why-the-angels-have-an-advantage-over-the-red-sox-for-this-free-agent-slugger

[moonslav59]

Obviously if this is the move, LOL ... but if they have a Top 2 starter in mind AND Paxton, fine

 

Disagree.

 

As a third starter added, sure.

 

Had we gotten Yamo, sure.

[Larry Cook]

Matsui is off the board now!!!

 

I really thought matsui and imanaga could have helped us tremendously

[moonslav59]

Matsui is off the board now!!!

 

I really thought matsui and imanaga could have helped us tremendously

 

Our pen is fine.

 

Imanaga, sure.

[Old Red]

Do you think the Red Sox were caught flat footed again, and didn’t read the room on how much the asking price for starting pitching has gone up so much from the estimates before all this FA madness started? Edited December 24, 2023 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think the Red Sox were caught flat footed again, and did read the room on how much the asking price for starting pitching has gone up so much from the estimates before all this FA madness started?

 

It's reached the point it's impossible to know what they're thinking.

 

But it sure seems like Henry still has the budget clampers on tight, and the Full Throttle thing was just another joke on Sox fans.

[Old Red]

It's reached the point it's impossible to know what they're thinking.

 

But it sure seems like Henry has the budget clampers on tight, and the Full Throttle thing was just another joke on Sox fans.

 

Agree, but the Big O, and the Yam Mam got $100M-$200M more than the original estimated contracts, and I’m sure Snell, and Monty will get substantially more too. If the original plan was to go all in on the Yam Man with all the stiff competition for his services it doesn’t look like that was a very sound plan.

[vjcsmoke]

Well the Dodgers have signed Yamamoto for 12 years 325m. That's an AAV of 27m so pretty reasonable for an ace pitcher in today's market.

 

I have a feeling the Red Sox weren't 'all-in' on Yamamoto or this contract should have been an easy match.

 

Dodgers meanwhile have spent a combined 1 billion dollars on 2 players this offseason. They are just printing money over in LA or where does it come from?

 

Where do the Red Sox go from here? It feels like we were on the outside of discussions where we should have courted the hell out of Yamamoto and made him the top priority.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree, but the Big O, and the Yam Mam got $100M-$200M more than the original estimated contracts, and I’m sure Snell, and Monty will get substantially more too. If the original plan was to go all in on the Yam Man with all the stiff competition for his services it doesn’t look like that was a very sound plan.

 

I've been saying that all along. It's why I was unhappy about them passing on the $75 mill and $80 mill contracts for Gray and ERod.

[vjcsmoke]

It's reached the point it's impossible to know what they're thinking.

 

But it sure seems like Henry still has the budget clampers on tight, and the Full Throttle thing was just another joke on Sox fans.

 

It certainly feels like it was 'going through the motion's to placate fans with no intention of fully opening the checkbook.

 

The total value of the contract sounds shocking but 27m per year average value is not a shocking number for a potential ace pitcher in today's market when 30m per year is the gold standard.

[Bellhorn04]

Well the Dodgers have signed Yamamoto for 12 years 325m. That's an AAV of 27m so pretty reasonable for an ace pitcher in today's market.

 

I have a feeling the Red Sox weren't 'all-in' on Yamamoto or this contract should have been an easy match.

 

Dodgers meanwhile have spent a combined 1 billion dollars on 2 players this offseason. They are just printing money over in LA or where does it come from?

 

Where do the Red Sox go from here? It feels like we were on the outside of discussions where we should have courted the hell out of Yamamoto and made him the top priority.

 

Realistically, they had no chance on Moto, with the Dodgers, Yanks and Mets all in on him. It was a pipe dream from the outset, especially with our thrift-conscious owners.

[Old Red]

I've been saying that all along. It's why I was unhappy about them passing on the $75 mill and $80 mill contracts for Gray and ERod.

 

Those contracts are looking better, and better now, and will probably look even better later on.

[vjcsmoke]

Realistically, they had no chance on Moto, with the Dodgers, Yanks and Mets all in on him. It was a pipe dream from the outset, especially with our thrift-conscious owners.

 

No doubt the courtship of Moto was hotly contested with all the big teams going in for him. But it feels like we really didn't make any extra effort to try to get the deal done. And yes ownership might ultimately be the reason why we failed to land him from the beginning. Our owners didn't want to pay to get the star player that we needed.

[Bellhorn04]

It feels like Henry still has steam coming out of his ears because of the Price contract and the Sale extension. Maybe he has vowed not to spend on another starting pitcher until Sale is off the books.

[vjcsmoke]

Well now we're looking at the leftovers of the free agent market.

 

Red Sox haven't really made any significant moves to improve at all.

 

And no I don't count Cooper Criswell, a guy who pitched with a 5.73 era and 1.55 whip last year as a significant acquisition.

[Bellhorn04]

I think we're 100% out on Snell.

 

The question is whether they will try to sign Montgomery and who our main competition would be. The Rangers maybe. Possibly the Yanks, although they had a bad breakup with Monty.

 

The Sox might not even be thinking about Montgomery, though, for all we know. That's the scary thing.

[vjcsmoke]

Jonathan Papelbon responds to Alex Verdugo:

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

Spot on. Papelbon has this right. Retrospectively I'm glad we got this punk Verdugo out of the lockerroom even if we got pennies on the dollar. It's a crying shame that Verdugo was the "key piece" we got in return for Mookie Betts.

[vjcsmoke]

I think we're 100% out on Snell.

 

The question is whether they will try to sign Montgomery and who our main competition would be. The Rangers maybe. Possibly the Yanks, although they had a bad breakup with Monty.

 

The Sox might not even be thinking about Montgomery, though, for all we know. That's the scary thing.

 

Well Breslow is supposed to be the 'smartest guy' in the room. That's why we hired him right?

 

There must be some kind of metrics that he is using to weigh up his options. Free agency has been eerily quiet so far.

 

What targets does he have in mind? The Yamamoto shoe has dropped so surely he had 2 or 3 top choices ready to go as soon as this happened, right? Tell me the guy has a plan to attack free agency.

[moonslav59]

Do you think the Red Sox were caught flat footed again, and did read the room on how much the asking price for starting pitching has gone up so much from the estimates before all this FA madness started?

 

Did read the room? No.

 

They are still stuck at the Price signing time zone.

[Bellhorn04]

With 20/20 hindsight, maybe the attitude stuff had something to do with the Dodgers making Verdugo available. They hosed us good, man.

[Bellhorn04]

Well Breslow is supposed to be the 'smartest guy' in the room. That's why we hired him right?

 

There must be some kind of metrics that he is using to weigh up his options. Free agency has been eerily quiet so far.

 

What targets does he have in mind? The Yamamoto shoe has dropped so surely he had 2 or 3 top choices ready to go as soon as this happened, right? Tell me the guy has a plan to attack free agency.

 

smoke, my concern is that Breslow is on a short leash and the team is actually being run by a committee now. It's a crowded front office.

[moonslav59]

Well now we're looking at the leftovers of the free agent market.

 

Red Sox haven't really made any significant moves to improve at all.

 

And no I don't count Cooper Criswell, a guy who pitched with a 5.73 era and 1.55 whip last year as a significant acquisition.

 

Criswell might be the 3rd or 4the best pitcher we have added, so far.

 

Campbell

Fitts

Slaten

Weissert

[Old Red]

smoke, my concern is that Breslow is on a short leash and the team is actually being run by a committee now. It's a crowded front office.

 

Crowded with Sam in the middle somewhere.

[Bellhorn04]

Criswell might be the 3rd or 4the best pitcher we have added, so far.

 

Campbell

Fitts

Slaten

Weissert

 

Out of which Campbell is the only one with any MLB numbers to speak of, correct?

[moonslav59]

smoke, my concern is that Breslow is on a short leash and the team is actually being run by a committee now. It's a crowded front office.

 

I’m not sure the committee thing is the issue, but it might be.

 

It’s the limits on spending on each guy and as a whole that has restricted or GMs since 2019.

 

That’s not to say we had nothing to spend or made good choices with our biggest contracts, but it looks like Brez has his hands tied, too.

 

Full throttle shackles!

 

[vjcsmoke]

smoke, my concern is that Breslow is on a short leash and the team is actually being run by a committee now. It's a crowded front office.

 

Then what's the point of getting rid of Bloom? If you're going to tie the new guy's hands behind his back he can't do his job. Hopefully Breslow puts his stamp on the team soon.

 

Henry and the Sox front office got booed rabidly by the fans whenever there was interaction with the public.

 

Do you guys remember this because I still do.

 

You would think they might sense that the natives are restless and will make some significant efforts to improve.

[moonslav59]

Out of which Campbell is the only one with any MLB numbers to speak of, correct?

 

Weissert has 31 IP.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m not sure the committee thing is the issue, but it might be.

 

It’s the limits on spending on each guy and as a whole that has restricted or GMs since 2019.

 

That’s not to say we had nothing to spend or made good choices with our biggest contracts, but it looks like Brez has his hands tied, too.

 

Full throttle shackles!

 

 

You have to wonder if Henry and Werner think having a young and 'cerebral' guy like Bloom or Breslow as CBO gives them better cover for their penny-pinching.

[moonslav59]

Then what's the point of getting rid of Bloom? If you're going to tie the new guy's hands behind his back he can't do his job. Hopefully Breslow puts his stamp on the team soon.

 

Henry and the Sox front office got booed rabidly by the fans whenever there was interaction with the public.

 

Do you guys remember this because I still do.

 

You would think they might sense that the natives are restless and will make some significant efforts to improve.

 

No doubt, the winter budgets have handcuffed or GMs, but spending wisely could have helped a lot.

 

Let’s hope Brez changes that factor, anyway.

[Bellhorn04]

Then what's the point of getting rid of Bloom?

 

You're not the first to ask.