Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

We have more fringe players than the 4 you listed. We just traded one to SEA, a team not looking for more fringe.

 

I’m thinking more like Murphy/Walter/Mata or Refsnyder, McGuire, Robertson DHam or Kelly.

 

I think some GM might like 2-3 of these players listed, and I’m not suggesting we trade 3 for a solid player: just 2-3 for 1 that is better.

 

Luis Urias isn’t a fringe player, at definitely not in the same class as anyone you or I mentioned. He was a 3 bWAR starter on multiple playoff teams. He was dealt to save the arb cost on a player whose best position is 3b. What we got back was a player we hope isn’t a fringe player.

 

The Sox have a lot of deadweight, but they need players with options on the 40 man roster. Some of those guys will possibly get moved, but I don’t anticipate much coming back.

 

But the 4 I mentioned should have been DFAd already. They serve no real purpose and no one will give you anything for them except another player likely equally worthy of being DFAd.

 

Not everyone is tradable and certainly not in trades that are worthwhile…

Edited November 23, 2023 by notin

[notin]

Yes. He has been much better as a RP than SP. Just because he might have been the closest to being a consistent “jack”as a SP’er does not mean he projects to be better than Bello, Paxton and others, next year.

 

Remember, I’m for adding 3SPers to Bello and Pivetta/Sale, so I think the same way about Houck, Whitlock and Crawford. Adding 3 plus a healthy Sale would even move Pivetta, our most consistent SPer over the last 3 years, to the pen. (Note: Pivetta is the only SPer we’ve had every season of the last 3 (10+ GS.)

 

 

Everyone is better as a RP than a starter. As the starter void is harder to fill, it makes sense to keep Crawford there. The Sox are extremely unlikely to sign 3 SPs who are better, and possibly won’t even add two.

 

If there is already talk of using Houck as a starter, there is zero chance the Sox are pushing Crawford back into the bullpen …

[moonslav59]

Luis Urias isn’t a fringe player, at definitely not in the same class as anyone you or I mentioned. He was a 3 bWAR starter on multiple playoff teams. He was dealt to save the arb cost on a player whose best position is 3b. What we got back was a player we hope isn’t a fringe player.

 

The Sox have a lot of deadweight, but they need players with options on the 40 man roster. Some of those guys will possibly get moved, but I don’t anticipate much coming back.

 

But the 4 I mentioned should have been DFAd already. They serve no real purpose and no one will give you anything for them except another player likely equally worthy of being DFAd.

 

Not everyone is tradable and certainly not in trades that are worthwhile…

 

There was talk of Uriah being non tendered, but yes, he’s better than those on the list, but also much more costly.

 

I don’t think everyone on my list is at DFA level, especially Murphy, Ref and maybe Mata/DHam/Walter.

[moonslav59]

Everyone is better as a RP than a starter. As the starter void is harder to fill, it makes sense to keep Crawford there. The Sox are extremely unlikely to sign 3 SPs who are better, and possibly won’t even add two.

 

If there is already talk of using Houck as a starter, there is zero chance the Sox are pushing Crawford back into the bullpen …

 

I get all this, but some pitchers are way better in the pen.

 

I’d pick Pivetta over Houck or Crawford, and Houck over Crawford, but that choice is close.

 

If we add 2, which is way more realistic than 3, we’d have 3 with Bello. If Sale is healthy, and Pivetta starts, we can have Crawford, Houck and Whitlock in the pen.

[moonslav59]

Christian Vazquez is being heavily shopped.

 

I doubt the Sox would be interested in the journeyman catcher.

[notin]

Christian Vazquez is being heavily shopped.

 

I doubt the Sox would be interested in the journeyman catcher.

 

I wouldn’t mind bringing Vaz back. He’s a good catcher with up-and-down offense. But Vaz/Wong is likely an upgrade over Wong/McGuire.

 

But it comes down to money. Vaz has an AAV in the neighborhood of $10mil. Can the Sox fit that into their budget?

[moonslav59]

I wouldn’t mind bringing Vaz back. He’s a good catcher with up-and-down offense. But Vaz/Wong is likely an upgrade over Wong/McGuire.

 

But it comes down to money. Vaz has an AAV in the neighborhood of $10mil. Can the Sox fit that into their budget?

 

I’d rather have McGuire, even at equal money.

[Randy Red Sox]

I’d rather have McGuire, even at equal money.

 

neither McGuire or Wong are G00D enough as starters f the Sx want t0 contend

[moonslav59]

neither McGuire or Wong are G00D enough as starters f the Sx want t0 contend

 

I think the tandem should project to middle of the pack, with hopes they can improve, but it is one area we can improve.

 

Just not Vaz. He’s in decline.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nola signing is probably an overpay. His aggregate stats are skewed by one ridiculous season. He’s been a steady, durable starter through his career but probably malpositioned to be considered their ace. The 6th and 7th years were tacked on understanding he will likely be in the garbage heap by then. This is a 5 year deal spread out to 7

[Bellhorn04]

Nola signing is probably an overpay. His aggregate stats are skewed by one ridiculous season. He’s been a steady, durable starter through his career but probably malpositioned to be considered their ace. The 6th and 7th years were tacked on understanding he will likely be in the garbage heap by then. This is a 5 year deal spread out to 7

 

All these big deals are overpays, Jax. It's a feature, not a bug. To win an auction with the amount of money these teams have, you have to get a little silly. Especially when we're talking about a free agent pool that features 5 or 6 top pitchers and 1 or 2 top position players.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the tandem should project to middle of the pack, with hopes they can improve, but it is one area we can improve.

 

Just not Vaz. He’s in decline.

 

FanGraphs is kind to McGuire, B-R not so much. Metrics for catchers are much like metrics for pitchers - inconsistent.

 

I still shudder when I see that McGuire is starting because I can't get those fat CERA numbers out of head, as skewed as I know they are.

[moonslav59]

Nola signing is probably an overpay. His aggregate stats are skewed by one ridiculous season. He’s been a steady, durable starter through his career but probably malpositioned to be considered their ace. The 6th and 7th years were tacked on understanding he will likely be in the garbage heap by then. This is a 5 year deal spread out to 7

 

MLBTR say he could have gotten more, elsewhere.

[moonslav59]

FanGraphs is kind to McGuire, B-R not so much. Metrics for catchers are much like metrics for pitchers - inconsistent.

 

I still shudder when I see that McGuire is starting because I can't get those fat CERA numbers out of head, as skewed as I know they are.

 

McGuire was hurt for part of the yr and his CERA numbers show he’s as good as Wong- pitcher by pitcher.

[Bellhorn04]

McGuire was hurt for part of the yr and his CERA numbers show he’s as good as Wong- pitcher by pitcher.

 

McGuire 2023: 0.3 fWAR, -0.3 bWAR

 

FUBAR 0.0

 

He's Freddy Fungible incarnate.

[notin]

McGuire 2023: 0.3 fWAR, -0.3 bWAR

 

FUBAR 0.0

 

He's Freddy Fungible incarnate.

 

So his whole career gets summed up by one season in which he played less than 50% of the time?

[Bellhorn04]

So his whole career gets summed up by one season in which he played less than 50% of the time?

 

His career bWAR is 1.7 in 302 games, 880 PA's. As I said, his FWAR is better at 4.2.

 

As for less than 50%, we're talking about a BUC.

[notin]

His career bWAR is 1.7 in 302 games, 880 PA's. As I said, his FWAR is better at 4.2.

 

As for less than 50%, we're talking about a BUC.

 

 

Exactly. He’s the BUC. He seems to get a bit too much ire for a guy in that role…

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly. He’s the BUC. He seems to get a bit too much ire for a guy in that role…

 

It's just something to jabber about.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox finished in the cellar, 23 games out. Let's not fall in love with some of these jabronis and want them all back.

[notin]

The Sox finished in the cellar, 23 games out. Let's not fall in love with some of these jabronis and want them all back.

 

I don’t think upgrading backup catcher is going to get the Sox closer to anything.

 

 

And it’s a moot point with McGuire. He wasn’t non-tendered. He’s going to be back next year…

Edited November 24, 2023 by notin

[dgalehouse]

I don’t think upgrading backup catcher is going to get the Sox closer to anything…

 

I know. But it seems to me that just about everybody but the batboy has gotten some praise on here lately. Why ?

[moonslav59]

His career bWAR is 1.7 in 302 games, 880 PA's. As I said, his FWAR is better at 4.2.

 

As for less than 50%, we're talking about a BUC.

 

Average the two WARs and it's about a 3 over 880 or 2.3 per 660.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think upgrading backup catcher is going to get the Sox closer to anything.

 

 

And it’s a moot point with McGuire. He wasn’t non-tendered. He’s going to be back next year…

 

I think some want a new starting catcher and Wong as the BUC.

[Randy Red Sox]

I think some want a new starting catcher and Wong as the BUC.

 

count me as one of those

[notin]

I know. But it seems to me that just about everybody but the batboy has gotten some praise on here lately. Why ?

 

 

Why not? Do you disparage praising anyone who isn’t a Hall of Famer?

 

To paraphrase Judge Smaels “the world needs jabronis, too”…

[notin]

I think some want a new starting catcher and Wong as the BUC.

 

I’m ok with Wong starting. It wouldn’t be horrible to upgrade the starting catcher, but fix SP and 2b first…

[Larry Cook]

I’m ok with Wong starting. It wouldn’t be horrible to upgrade the starting catcher, but fix SP and 2b first…

 

I agreed. Fix the starting rotation first and second base second.

[Randy Red Sox]

I agreed. Fix the starting rotation first and second base second.

 

can not disagree

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agreed. Fix the starting rotation first and second base second.

 

Just wondering, now that two relievers are in charge of fixing the pitching: if the Sox get outbid on the top handful of free agent starters, if they would pivot to stockpiling a power bullpen as an option.

 

Instead of breaking the bank for Hader, Brez could probably sign two other guys who throw over 100 mph -- Hicks and Fujinami -- plus, add a recent Bailey pupil in Manaea as swingman.