8/22/23 Red Sox @ Houston 8:10 EDT

[Old Red]

Managers have lost jobs because of this very point. But blame pie also gets served to those who provide a skipper with his wayward crew (never metaphor I didn't like).

 

Devers was inherited, as well as promoted prospects from Dombro days. But do Bloom acquisitions always have to require pitchers who can't throw to bases, outfielders who miss cut-offs, catchers who get picked off bases, and Verdugos acting like wingnuts?

 

There is plenty of blame to go around that’s for sure, but now how do you fix it?

[redsoxrules]

At some point, it's not the coaching's fault, but the players. Right?

 

Duran followed coaching direction and improved his poor defense to be mediocre. Why can't Raffy? Can Casas?

 

Raffy has been in the league for a bit now. What you see is what you get. Some players are just not good defensively and nothing will change that.

[Maxbialystock]

Managers have lost jobs because of this very point. But blame pie also gets served to those who provide a skipper with his wayward crew (never metaphor I didn't like).

 

Devers was inherited, as well as promoted prospects from Dombro days. But do Bloom acquisitions always have to require pitchers who can't throw to bases, outfielders who miss cut-offs, catchers who get picked off bases, and Verdugos acting like wingnuts?

 

Agree. In fact, I think the Sox have always recruited and bought or traded for bats first, then arms (pitchers), and rarely for gloves and/or baserunning skills. I think that approach has dominated the farm system as well.

 

Consider exhibits A and B, Casas and Duran, who this year have the enthusiastic support of talksoxers and other Sox fans. Why? Because both have OPS's over .800 (.829and .828).

 

Who cares about their freaking defense and that Duran's DWAR is -0.4 (worse than Devers' -0.3) and Casas's -1.0?

[mvp 78]

It didn’t look like it last night on that bunt.

 

You would not know this as you only saw the highlights.

[mvp 78]

Raffy has been in the league for a bit now. What you see is what you get. Some players are just not good defensively and nothing will change that.

 

Needs a sports psychologist.

[Maxbialystock]

Raffy has been in the league for a bit now. What you see is what you get. Some players are just not good defensively and nothing will change that.

 

What a crock. His DWAR is -0.3, which means that he will cost the Sox 1/3 of a one win more than the average MLB thirdbaseman.

 

The Sox have always gone for bats first and gloves/arms a distant second, including at SS and CF. And that's why Devers took over at 3b for the Sox in 2018 despite a DWAR of -0.9. His overall WAR's have been 1.3 (2017, 58 games), 0.0 (2018), 5.3, 0.4 (2020), 3.5, 4.4, and 3.0. That means that overall he has been a net plus at 3b, more so than many of predecessors.

 

Remember the 2013 WS champs Sox? Middlebrooks at 3d base had a WAR of -0.1. Youk, WAR of 4.3 in 2007, was the Sox last productive thirdbaseman (on a Sox WS team), and they moved him to 1B.

[moonslav59]

This isn’t about bashing Cora...

 

Yes, it must be my poor reading comprehension or interpretation skills that equated suggesting getting a little league manager was being overly critical./B]

[mvp 78]

What a crock. His DWAR is -0.3, which means that he will cost the Sox 1/3 of a one win more than the average MLB thirdbaseman.

 

The Sox have always gone for bats first and gloves/arms a distant second, including at SS and CF. And that's why Devers took over at 3b for the Sox in 2018 despite a DWAR of -0.9. His overall WAR's have been 1.3 (2017, 58 games), 0.0 (2018), 5.3, 0.4 (2020), 3.5, 4.4, and 3.0. That means that overall he has been a net plus at 3b, more so than many of predecessors.

 

Remember the 2013 WS champs Sox? Middlebrooks at 3d base had a WAR of -0.1. Youk, WAR of 4.3 in 2007, was the Sox last productive thirdbaseman (on a Sox WS team), and they moved him to 1B.

 

2007 was Mike Lowell, 0.9 dWAR, 5.0 bWAR, 150 GS at 3B.

[moonslav59]

What a crock. His DWAR is -0.3, which means that he will cost the Sox 1/3 of a one win more than the average MLB thirdbaseman.

 

The Sox have always gone for bats first and gloves/arms a distant second, including at SS and CF. And that's why Devers took over at 3b for the Sox in 2018 despite a DWAR of -0.9. His overall WAR's have been 1.3 (2017, 58 games), 0.0 (2018), 5.3, 0.4 (2020), 3.5, 4.4, and 3.0. That means that overall he has been a net plus at 3b, more so than many of predecessors.

 

Remember the 2013 WS champs Sox? Middlebrooks at 3d base had a WAR of -0.1. Youk, WAR of 4.3 in 2007, was the Sox last productive thirdbaseman (on a Sox WS team), and they moved him to 1B.

 

According to fangraphs, Devers has cost the team 50 runs over his career, including 6, so far this year.

 

To me, his D has lost us at least 2 wins. Kike's D at SS 3-4 min. Casas at 1B? Hard to tell, but I think more than 1 game. That's 6-8 from just 3 positions- enough to put us in the driver's seat for the WC2 or WC3 slots.

 

Sure, their O has more than made up for their D (except Kike,) but let's not sugar coat how bad our D has been.

 

The last 2 games were astonishingly bad. There were so many plays that should have been made, but were not called errors, that are total morale deflation plays.

 

Our pitchers are being asked to get 4-6 outs several times a game. It's just too taxing on them and the rest of the team.

[Old Red]

Yes, it must be my poor reading comprehension or interpretation skills that equated suggesting getting a little league manager was being overly critical./B]

 

That’s because maybe some of the players would relate to one better, because it appears what Cora is preaching is way over their heads.

[moonslav59]

That’s because maybe some of the players would relate to one better, because it appears what Cora is preaching is way over their heads.

 

Yes, and you suggest a little league manger is better, but for the love of God, it's not "hating," by any means.

 

Oh, sorry. I must have misinterpreted your bashing.

[Old Red]

Yes, and you suggest a little league manger is better, but for the love of God, it's not "hating," by any means.

 

Oh, sorry. I must have misinterpreted your bashing.

Is Cora getting through to the players?

[Old Red]

Yes, and you suggest a little league manger is better, but for the love of God, it's not "hating," by any means.

 

Oh, sorry. I must have misinterpreted your bashing.

I glad you finally admitted you misinterpreted something. You’ve done it for two years now that I know of do I have to bring up the hate for Cora again, and I’m sure you’ve done it a lot longer than that.

[moonslav59]

Is Cora getting through to the players?

 

I have no idea.

 

It could just be some players are incapable of doing what is asked.

 

(See how I actually answer the question asked. Try it, just once.)

[moonslav59]

I glad you finally admitted you misinterpreted something. You’ve done it for two years now that I know of do I have to bring up the hate for Cora again, and I’m sure you’ve done it a lot longer than that.

 

I do wonder, sometimes, if you actually convince yourself of this.

[Old Red]

I have no idea.

 

It could just be some players are incapable of doing what is asked.

 

(See how I actually answer the question asked. Try it, just once.)

Very good answer.

[moonslav59]

Very good answer.

 

Which is why I don't just jump to a conclusion about the manager, when I don't have the answer to a question like you asked.

 

You, on the other hand, automatically conclude it must be Cora's fault that the team sucks at fundamentals.

 

(Not saying Cora does not share in the blame. )

[Old Red]

Which is why I don't just jump to a conclusion about the manager, when I don't have the answer to a question like you asked.

 

You, on the other hand, automatically conclude it must be Cora's fault that the team sucks at fundamentals.

 

(Not saying Cora does not share in the blame. )

Once again 100% wrong. I’m saying despite Cora’s talking, and talking about about it all season long, and actually working with the guys pregame it hasn’t made a difference, so maybe getting a good little league coach to get down to their level might be an option to try. You’ve always got bashing, and blame on the mind. It fits your narrative even though it mostly wrong most of the time. You think you are a mind reader, and you’re not, and if you was your terrible at it.

[moonslav59]

Once again 100% wrong. I’m saying despite Cora’s talking, and talking about about it all season long, and actually working with the guys pregame it hasn’t made a difference, so maybe getting a good little league coach to get down to their level might be an option to try. You’ve always got bashing, and blame on the mind. It fits your narrative even though it mostly wrong most of the time. You think you are a mind reader, and you’re not, and if you was your terrible at it.

 

I'm not the one bashing with almost every post.

 

If you honestly did not mean that post to be critical of Cora, then you need to word your positions differently.

 

The problem is not misinterpretation on my and others part: it's misuse of the English language on your part.

[Old Red]

I'm not the one bashing with almost every post.

 

If you honestly did not mean that post to be critical of Cora, then you need to word your positions differently.

 

The problem is not misinterpretation on my and others part: it's misuse of the English language on your part.

 

Saying a little league coach may be a better option to get through to the players is a misuse of the English language? You’re blaming my use of something instead of your misinterpretation. How was the misuse of the English language came into play when you said I hated Cora?

[moonslav59]

Saying a little league coach may be a better option to get through to the players is a misuse of the English language? You’re blaming my use of something instead of your misinterpretation. How was the misuse of the English language came into play when you said I hated Cora?

 

Your statement said something you apparently are now saying you did not mean. Keep back pedalling, and maybe you will come full circle.

[Old Red]

Your statement said something you apparently are now saying you did not mean. Keep back pedalling, and maybe you will come full circle.

 

Like I keep saying. You are not a mind reader even though you think you are. You wouldn’t have said I hated Cora if you didn’t try so hard to be a mind reader.

[moonslav59]

Like I keep saying. You are not a mind reader even though you think you are. You wouldn’t have said I hated Cora if you didn’t try so hard to be a mind reader.

 

I told you why, long ago. I took your constant bashing of im as "hating." You never used that word, and I said I was sorry for acting like you did say it.

 

It still seems like you do, but I don't know for sure and don't say it.

 

When you suggest we get a little league coach, because what Cora is doing is not even good enough to meet that level, it has a specific meaning in English.

 

It's not misinterpretation. it's either a misstatement by you or a ack of what words mean in English. This isn't the first time you have done this, and then back-pedalled or worse.

[Old Red]

I told you why, long ago. I took your constant bashing of im as "hating." You never used that word, and I said I was sorry for acting like you did say it.

 

It still seems like you do, but I don't know for sure and don't say it.

 

When you suggest we get a little league coach, because what Cora is doing is not even good enough to meet that level, it has a specific meaning in English.

 

It's not misinterpretation. it's either a misstatement by you or a ack of what words mean in English. This isn't the first time you have done this, and then back-pedalled or worse.

 

My exact quote was maybe the Red Sox need a good little league coach, because they have looked like one the last couple of years. That did not say anything about Cora, or that Cora wasn’t good enough to meet that level. That’s were you took it to, and still do. Now I might not have explained it well enough, but that is no excuse for you taking it where you took it, and I’ve explained what I meant since then. You being a mind reader is not good for anyone especially when you get it wrong again, and again.

[moonslav59]

My exact quote was maybe the Red Sox need a good little league coach, because they have looked like one the last couple of years. That did not say anything about Cora, or that Cora wasn’t good enough to meet that level. That’s were you took it to, and still do. Now I might not have explained it well enough, but that is no excuse for you taking it where you took it, and I’ve explained what I meant since then. You being a mind reader is not good for anyone especially when you get it wrong again, and again.

 

Dig the hole deeper.

 

Nothing to do with mind reading.

 

It's like me saying we need a better defensive 3Bman and then saying it has nothing to do with the defense of Devers.

[Old Red]

Dig the hole deeper.

 

Nothing to do with mind reading.

 

It's like me saying we need a better defensive 3Bman and then saying it has nothing to do with the defense of Devers.

 

That’s not even close to being to being the same thing. The point is, and has been many times that only I know what I mean, but you guess what I mean, and take off on it from there. To say I hated Cora just, because I said I wouldn’t have hired him back is the first, and best example of that, and it has continued since then. I posted on today’s game thread, and someone said they didn’t know exactly what I meant, and I explained it. Easy peasy, and very simple solution.

[moonslav59]

That’s not even close to being to being the same thing. The point is, and has been many times that only I know what I mean, but you guess what I mean, and take off on it from there. To say I hated Cora just, because I said I wouldn’t have hired him back is the first, and best example of that, and it has continued since then. I posted on today’s game thread, and someone said they didn’t know exactly what I meant, and I explained it. Easy peasy, and very simple solution.

 

Back to the same rehash.

 

I made a perfect analogy.

[Old Red]

Back to the same rehash.

 

I made a perfect analogy.

 

It’s not about the apology. It’s about the fact you jumped to a conclusion in the first place.Look we’ve gone over this 100 times, and if you don’t believe me fine. If I was slighting Cora I would have no trouble saying so. Now if you would have said I was slighting the players then you would have gotten it right. That’s why I said a little league coach might be able to get down to their level, because Cora can’t, and has done all he can do. Last word is yours.

[moonslav59]

It’s not about the apology. It’s about the fact you jumped to a conclusion in the first place.Look we’ve gone over this 100 times, and if you don’t believe me fine. If I was slighting Cora I would have no trouble saying so. Now if you would have said I was slighting the players then you would have gotten it right. That’s why I said a little league coach might be able to get down to their level, because Cora can’t, and has done all he can do. Last word is yours.

 

It wasn't a big "jump."

 

(I doubt those will be "the last words.")

[illinoisredsox]

We seem to have a Tellarite among us.

 

“Tellarites do not argue for a reason. They simply argue." (From the original Star Trek)