6/14 Sox vs Rocks

[Dipre]

Y'all were talking mad s*** about Cora's lineup for today, yet that was t the only lineup to win a game this series. Long live Cora, who knows more about lineup construction than the nerds at Talksox!

[Bellhorn04]

Y'all were talking mad s*** about Cora's lineup for today, yet that was t the only lineup to win a game this series. Long live Cora, who knows more about lineup construction than the nerds at Talksox!

 

I've always said Cora has stones. He knew the fans would be in an uproar about Raffy sitting.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I've always said Cora has stones. He knew the fans would be in an uproar about Raffy sitting.

 

He also knows if Devers has another hammy or leg ish that needs rest (or has maybe affected him all season)... which could excuse him for jogging on groundballs -- a cause for public benching for more healthy teammates.

[Bellhorn04]

He also knows if Devers has another hammy or leg ish that needs rest (or has maybe affected him all season)... which could excuse him for jogging on groundballs -- a cause for public benching for more healthy teammates.

 

Ouch.

[mvp 78]

Y'all were talking mad s*** about Cora's lineup for today, yet that was t the only lineup to win a game this series. Long live Cora, who knows more about lineup construction than the nerds at Talksox!

 

He knows so much about roster construction that he let Kiké get to 14 errors, -7 DRS, -9 OAA in only 400 innings at the most important fielding position. He was worse than Edgar Renteria in 2005! He was probably the worst Red Sox SS I've seen in my lifetime!

[Dipre]

He knows so much about roster construction that he let Kiké get to 14 errors, -7 DRS, -9 OAA in only 400 innings at the most important fielding position. He was worse than Edgar Renteria in 2005! He was probably the worst Red Sox SS I've seen in my lifetime!

 

Take it up to Bloom. He's the one who signed the entire MLB injured SS squad to the 2023 Red Sox. Pablo is not an everyday player.

[moonslav59]

He knows so much about roster construction that he let Kiké get to 14 errors, -7 DRS, -9 OAA in only 400 innings at the most important fielding position. He was worse than Edgar Renteria in 2005! He was probably the worst Red Sox SS I've seen in my lifetime!

 

It was probably the worst 400 inning stretch, I can remember (since 1971.) If you prorate Kike to 1200+ innings, his DRS would be -21. Here are Sox SSs by season since 1971:

 

(-21 Kike pro-rated)

-13 Renteria '05

-11 Bogey '17

-10 Bogey '16

-9 Bogey '19

-8 Bogey '18

-7 Kike '23 (411 innings)

-6 S Drew '13

-6 Lugo '08 (after the injury & 671 innings- pro-rates to about -11)

-5 Bogey '14- 880 innings pro-rates to about -9 over 1400.

-4 Alex Gonzalez '06 in just 361 innings- pro-rates to -12.

-4 Bogey '20

-3 Bogey '15

 

The shorter list...

+14 Aviles '12

+12 Reese '04 (507 innings pro-rates to +32)

+6 Lowrie '08 (386 innings projects to about +30)

+6 Nomar (an anomaly)

+6 OCab '04 (491 innings pro-rates to about +17)

+5 Bogey '22 (anomaly?)

+5 Cora '06 (434 pro-rates to +19_

+4 Gonzo '06 (966 pro-rates to about +7)

+1 Cora '08 (386 pro-rates to about +4)

(No others above zero)

 

 

[Dipre]

The thing that really irks me about this whole ordeal is the Story signing. I didn't see sense in it then, and it makes even less sense to me now.

[moonslav59]

Take it up to Bloom. He's the one who signed the entire MLB injured SS squad to the 2023 Red Sox. Pablo is not an everyday player.

 

He did know Mondesi would start on the IL.

Story had a known injury, and he knew he'd be out in enough time to add depth.

Chang was not expected to be hurt.

Kike had pretty good numbers at SS, beforehand, but his sample size was scattered across several seasons.

Reyes is not a FT IF'er, let alone SS.

Hamilton is the enigma.

Mayer and others are too far away to have has anything to do with adding a short term SS solution.

[moonslav59]

The thing that really irks me about this whole ordeal is the Story signing. I didn't see sense in it then, and it makes even less sense to me now.

 

He was a better defender than Bogey, even with a weakened arm.

His offense was boosted by Coors Field but not by a whole lot more than Bogey's was by Fenway.

He certainly ended up being way cheaper.

The injury has killed the signing, but 4.5 years left is enough to gain some redemption.

 

The deal looks awful, in hindsight. At the time, I can see some sense to the idea.

[Dipre]

He was a better defender than Bogey, even with a weakened arm.

His offense was boosted by Coors Field but not by a whole lot more than Bogey's was by Fenway.

He certainly ended up being way cheaper.

The injury has killed the signing, but 4.5 years left is enough to gain some redemption.

 

The deal looks awful, in hindsight. At the time, I can see some sense to the idea.

 

So you signed a guy for SS money to not play SS. I don't see it.

[moonslav59]

So you signed a guy for SS money to not play SS. I don't see it.

 

I said "some sense," and I think the idea was, he may play SS for 5 of the 6 years. Even that money for an .800 2Bman with near GG defense is worth it.

 

I'm just saying your "no sense" point seems too much.

[Dipre]

I said "some sense," and I think the idea was, he may play SS for 5 of the 6 years. Even that money for an .800 2Bman with near GG defense is worth it.

 

I'm just saying your "no sense" point seems too much.

 

Except he's not a 2B. Moving a lifelong SS to 2B doesn't guarantee GG defense at the position. The transition isn't as easy as you may thing. It just seems like fitting a square peg in a round hole type of move overall.

[mvp 78]

Take it up to Bloom. He's the one who signed the entire MLB injured SS squad to the 2023 Red Sox. Pablo is not an everyday player.

 

He's not taking my calls at the moment. Reyes has better offensive and defensive numbers than Kiké. Why is Kiké still an everyday player? Is Reyes a longterm solution? No. Is he better than Kiké at SS? Yes.

[mvp 78]

So you signed a guy for SS money to not play SS. I don't see it.

 

He was damaged goods that they bought at a discount. Maybe they thought he could rehab his way out of it or that putting him at 2b would fix the problem. It didn't work. I didn't like the signing either.

[Dipre]

He's not taking my calls at the moment. Reyes has better offensive and defensive numbers than Kiké. Why is Kiké still an everyday player? Is Reyes a longterm solution? No. Is he better than Kiké at SS? Yes.

 

This is a sound premise though, I'll give you that.

[Duran Is The Man]

Except he's not a 2B. Moving a lifelong SS to 2B doesn't guarantee GG defense at the position. The transition isn't as easy as you may thing. It just seems like fitting a square peg in a round hole type of move overall.

 

square pegs in round holes has been a hallmark of the Bloom era. possibly why his teams, defensively, have had the worst four year run in Sox history using fielding pct. as a metric.

 

2023 -30th (last)

2022 -17th (!)

2021 -29th

2020 -28th

 

the only stretch even close was '95-'97 where they finished 26th, 23rd & 28th.

[Dipre]

square pegs in round holes has been a hallmark of the Bloom era. possibly why his teams, defensively, have had the worst four year run in Sox history using fielding pct. as a metric.

 

2023 -30th (last)

2022 -17th (!)

2021 -29th

2020 -28th

 

the only stretch even close was '95-'97 where they finished 26th, 23rd & 28th.

 

Fielding percentage sucks, but the overall point is correct.

[moonslav59]

square pegs in round holes has been a hallmark of the Bloom era. possibly why his teams, defensively, have had the worst four year run in Sox history using fielding pct. as a metric.

 

2023 -30th (last)

2022 -17th (!)

2021 -29th

2020 -28th

 

the only stretch even close was '95-'97 where they finished 26th, 23rd & 28th.

 

Yes, last in FLG% and just .006 from 15th, .007 from 10th, .009 from 5th and .010 from best.

 

Here is a more advanced metric look, which (except for UZR/150) also shows we have gotten worse but are not "the worst":

 

Fangraphs

 

DRS (a cumulative number, but ranking is not)

18th in '21 (+4)

23rd in '22 (-4)

25th in '23 (-19)

 

UZR/150

11th in '21 (+1.4)

23rd in '22 (-2.5)

6th in '23 (+3.7- don't ask me how.)

 

D Measure (a cumulative number)

23rd in '21 (-20.6)

26th in '22 (-21.5

27th in '23 (-10.5)

 

[mvp 78]

Fielding percentage sucks, but the overall point is correct.

 

Even though it's a bad stat, coming in last says a lot about the defense.

[Bellhorn04]

Even though it's a bad stat, coming in last says a lot about the defense.

 

I'm guessing Kike has a lot to do with that %.

[moonslav59]

I'm guessing Kike has a lot to do with that %.

 

It must.

 

Fielding Errors by year

42 '18

52 '19

26 '20 (short season projects to about 65)

58 '21

37 '22

20 '23 (Pro-rates to about 41)

 

Throwing Errors

35

33

19 (short season projects to about 59)

49

48

29 (projects to about 60 for 2023)

 

Throwing Error Leaders:

24 Kike Projected from 12 in 2023)

12 Devers '18

10 Devers '21

9 Devers '20

8 Devers '19

6 Bogey '18 & '21 and Renfroe in '21

 

FE is way different: Kike has just 2, which projects to 4 over a full season)

14 Devers '19

12 Devers '18

12 Devers '21

9 Dalbec '21

8 Bogey '19

6 Bogey '22

6 Renfroe '21

 

Kike has 12 of our 29 throwing errors but just 2 of our 20 FEs.

 

14 of 49 total or 29%!!!!

 

Note: he's had about 310 out of 2420 Total Chances, too. (13%)

Edited June 15, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Kike got the throwing yips, is what happened, I guess.