Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[Bellhorn04]

It's Reese McGuire's fault that Sale sucks now though!

 

CERA, CERA

Whatever made you want to change your mind?

CERA, CERA

So easy to look at, so hard to define.

 

He's just been super unlucky since he joined us, I know. Pitchers have given up 6.5 runs a game in his 33 starts.

 

Maybe he's like E-Rod in reverse. For some reason we usually scored a lot of runs for E-Rod.

[mvp 78]

@tylermilliken_

Dave Bush believes Chris Sale is going to figure it out:

 

“Oh, he’s close. He’s close… in any three-game stretch, you can be really good or really bad. But our work on the side between starts, with the command he’s showing, I’m confident that when he does that right, he’s going to be good.”

 

Send Dave Bush to the Hague for war crimes against this pitching staff.

[Hugh2]

2025. No chris sale in 2025

[mvp 78]

2025. No chris sale in 2025

 

Club option for $20M. He'll be on a one year contract. Chaim loves those!

 

2025 Vesting Option ($5M deferred to 2040)

vests with a Top 10 finish in 2024 Cy Young + healthy

 

2025 Option Escalator (2023, 2024 Cy Young)

$2.5M for 1st

$1.5M for 2nd or 3rd

$1M for 4th or 5th

$500,000 for 6th-10th

[notin]

He's just been super unlucky since he joined us, I know. Pitchers have given up 6.5 runs a game in his 33 starts.

 

Maybe he's like E-Rod in reverse. For some reason we usually scored a lot of runs for E-Rod.

 

Maybe those 6.5 runs are influenced by the Seabold/Winckowski/early Bello starting rotation from last September that was then relieved by a bullpen that created more runs than Applebee’s chili and ExLax combined…

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe those 6.5 runs are influenced by the Seabold/Winckowski/early Bello starting rotation from last September that was then relieved by a bullpen that created more runs than Applebee’s chili and ExLax combined…

 

I can go along with that, but now we're into Sale and Kluber imploding when McGuire is behind the plate.

 

I will be so happy when you guys are proven right...

[a700hitter]

52 degrees and I get to sit through a Chris Sale '23 start... Where do I sign up?

You have become such a Floridian. 52 degrees is beach weather here. Are you eating dinner by 4:30?

[vegasbob]

@tylermilliken_

Dave Bush believes Chris Sale is going to figure it out:

 

“Oh, he’s close. He’s close… in any three-game stretch, you can be really good or really bad. But our work on the side between starts, with the command he’s showing, I’m confident that when he does that right, he’s going to be good.”

 

Send Dave Bush to the Hague for war crimes against this pitching staff.

 

So when you read and comprehend Bush's tortured statement, the only conclusion you can draw is that Sale is not doing his sidework right, but if he does start getting the sidework right, Chris will be good. I hate quotes from sports based individuals

[mvp 78]

You have become such a Floridian. 52 degrees is beach weather here. Are you eating dinner by 4:30?

 

Only NY tags at the beach on 52 degree days. I did spend Easter Lunch at an Assisted Living facility.

[Maxbialystock]

So when you read and comprehend Bush's tortured statement, the only conclusion you can draw is that Sale is not doing his sidework right, but if he does start getting the sidework right, Chris will be good. I hate quotes from sports based individuals

 

Meh. Let's see what happens. I too am very down on Sale, but also think he is trying to re-invent himself. He's missed a ton of starts since 2019 and has lost that high heat (upper 90's) he used so much. From what I've seen he does not yet have great stuff and certainly doesn't have great command.

[mvp 78]

I can go along with that, but now we're into Sale and Kluber imploding when McGuire is behind the plate.

 

I will be so happy when you guys are proven right...

 

I can't fault McGuire for Sale being horrible. Has he also told Kluber to throw even slower than last year too?

[Maxbialystock]

Right now Cora has eight pitchers--Winckowski, Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Crawford, Pivetta, Kluber, Bello, and Sale--who are all capable of pitching multiple innings in a game.

 

In my jaundiced view, Kluber, Sale, and Bello are in the "can't be trusted" category.

 

Four others--Houck, Crawford, Whitlock, and Pivetta--are more reliable. Amazingly, all four have almost the same ERA: 4.50, 4.42, 4.50, and 4.50.

 

Winckowski, who has pitched 12 innings in 6 games, has easily the lowest ERA, 1.50.

 

So my thought is that maybe Kluber, Sale, and Bello should start less often and that the four "reliables" should start more often.

 

And Winckowski should be used when Cora thinks a game is winnable (whatever the heck that means).

[mvp 78]

Right now Cora has eight pitchers--Winckowski, Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Crawford, Pivetta, Kluber, Bello, and Sale--who are all capable of pitching multiple innings in a game.

 

In my jaundiced view, Kluber, Sale, and Bello are in the "can't be trusted" category.

 

Four others--Houck, Crawford, Whitlock, and Pivetta--are more reliable. Amazingly, all four have almost the same ERA: 4.50, 4.42, 4.50, and 4.50.

 

Winckowski, who has pitched 12 innings in 6 games, has easily the lowest ERA, 1.50.

 

So my thought is that maybe Kluber, Sale, and Bello should start less often and that the four "reliables" should start more often.

 

And Winckowski should be used when Cora thinks a game is winnable (whatever the heck that means).

 

Bello has pitched ONE start. Jeez...

[vegasbob]

Bello has pitched ONE start. Jeez...

 

That is why i said he would get at least 2 more starts in regular rotation to try and establish his routine and see how he responds. He may get and could earn another 27 starts over the season . Hoping the FO does not need to yoyo him to Worcester before he has a chance to get consistent.

[Bellhorn04]

So when you read and comprehend Bush's tortured statement, the only conclusion you can draw is that Sale is not doing his sidework right, but if he does start getting the sidework right, Chris will be good. I hate quotes from sports based individuals

 

OTOH, it's probably a good thing he's not saying "Yeah, Sale is f**ked."

[mvp 78]

That is why i said he would get at least 2 more starts in regular rotation to try and establish his routine and see how he responds. He may get and could earn another 27 starts over the season . Hoping the FO does not need to yoyo him to Worcester before he has a chance to get consistent.

 

I'd just keep him up here unless his arm is still having issues. He's clearly too good for AAA and needs to work on being a good MLB pitcher. If this team is really not a playoff contender, Bello being a part of the rotation for better or worse can only be a good thing for the future.

[Maxbialystock]

That is why i said he would get at least 2 more starts in regular rotation to try and establish his routine and see how he responds. He may get and could earn another 27 starts over the season . Hoping the FO does not need to yoyo him to Worcester before he has a chance to get consistent.

 

I don't foresee Bello going back to Worcester. All I said was that maybe he, Kluber, and Sale--note the company I've put him with--should start less often.

 

Last week Tampa started a 22 year old rookie, Taj Bradley. His first MLB start, and he looked far more competent and confident that Bello did yesterday--and Bello had 11 MLB starts last year.

 

Before Bello's start yesterday, the message traffic from the Sox was that he has great stuff this year, so good that they didn't even have him start at the AA or AAA level before starting in Boston.

[Bellhorn04]

I can't fault McGuire for Sale being horrible. Has he also told Kluber to throw even slower than last year too?

 

Can't hurt to try Wong with Sale. Let's see what Cora does. Surely at some point he switches from the straight platoon.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't foresee Bello going back to Worcester. All I said was that maybe he, Kluber, and Sale--note the company I've put him with--should start less often.

 

Last week Tampa started a 22 year old rookie, Taj Bradley. His first MLB start, and he looked far more competent and confident that Bello did yesterday--and Bello had 11 MLB starts last year.

 

Before Bello's start yesterday, the message traffic from the Sox was that he has great stuff this year, so good that they didn't even have him start at the AA or AAA level before starting in Boston.

 

Whitlock had a dramatic improvement from Start 1 to Start 2, so it can happen.

[moonslav59]

Right now Cora has eight pitchers--Winckowski, Houck, Whitlock, Pivetta, Crawford, Pivetta, Kluber, Bello, and Sale--who are all capable of pitching multiple innings in a game.

 

In my jaundiced view, Kluber, Sale, and Bello are in the "can't be trusted" category.

 

Four others--Houck, Crawford, Whitlock, and Pivetta--are more reliable. Amazingly, all four have almost the same ERA: 4.50, 4.42, 4.50, and 4.50.

 

Winckowski, who has pitched 12 innings in 6 games, has easily the lowest ERA, 1.50.

 

So my thought is that maybe Kluber, Sale, and Bello should start less often and that the four "reliables" should start more often.

 

And Winckowski should be used when Cora thinks a game is winnable (whatever the heck that means).

 

If Bleier didn't implode coming in after Kluber, he's have had 2 straight decent starts.

 

Bello has had one short start, and he "can't be trusted?"

 

Sale has not pitched in a long time, before these 3 starts. I'd give him at least 3 more starts, before I even begin to consider the word "trust."

[moonslav59]

Whitlock had a dramatic improvement from Start 1 to Start 2, so it can happen.

 

He went from the "no trust list" to staff ace, overnight.

[mvp 78]

I don't foresee Bello going back to Worcester. All I said was that maybe he, Kluber, and Sale--note the company I've put him with--should start less often.

 

Last week Tampa started a 22 year old rookie, Taj Bradley. His first MLB start, and he looked far more competent and confident that Bello did yesterday--and Bello had 11 MLB starts last year.

 

Before Bello's start yesterday, the message traffic from the Sox was that he has great stuff this year, so good that they didn't even have him start at the AA or AAA level before starting in Boston.

 

Huh? He started for Worcester last week.

 

6 Innings, 1 R, 4 H, 0 BB, 4 K

[Bellhorn04]

He went from the "no trust list" to staff ace, overnight.

 

Heh...well, Garrett's performance as a starter last year was a bit iffy, and then he got hurt, so I don't think we regarded him as a sure thing.

 

But you're certainly right about the overreactions to one game.

[moonslav59]

Can't hurt to try Wong with Sale. Let's see what Cora does. Surely at some point he switches from the straight platoon.

 

Maybe McGuire's next start with Sale was going to bring the comfy, plush binky blanket to fruition, and you end up pulling the rug out and making Sale start all over again with Wong.

 

Maybe not.

[notin]

Heh...well, Garrett's performance as a starter last year was a bit iffy, and then he got hurt, so I don't think we regarded him as a sure thing.

 

But you're certainly right about the overreactions to one game.

 

I think he’s talking about overreactions to two games…

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe McGuire's next start with Sale was going to bring the comfy, plush binky blanket to fruition, and you end up pulling the rug out and making Sale start all over again with Wong.

 

Maybe not.

 

Could be. So far the binky has been full of explosives.

[moonslav59]

Heh...well, Garrett's performance as a starter last year was a bit iffy, and then he got hurt, so I don't think we regarded him as a sure thing.

 

But you're certainly right about the overreactions to one game.

 

In no way am I sure Whitlock will be a good SP'er, or if keeping him in his special pen role was the right call.

 

I think he deserves a shot as a starter. A long look without being jerked here and there. If it does not work out, it could end up being a major reason we are not successful, this year.

[moonslav59]

Could be. So far the binky has been full of explosives.

 

It's hard to pinpoint a reason Sale has been horrific through 3 starts. It could have something to do with McGuire, but even if it is/was, it is no certainty Wong will give Sale what he needs from a catcher.

 

I think Sale is rusty and needs to find his groove. Maybe, if Sandy Leon was still here, his numbers would be better.

 

2.79 with Leon over 436 innings (1721 PAs)

 

4.08 with Vaz over 132 innings (567 PAs)

 

11.25 with McGuire over a measly 12 IP and 64 PAs

 

I'm way more concerned about Sale than McGuire's D and staff handling skills, but that may change over a few months.

 

[Maxbialystock]

Huh? He started for Worcester last week.

 

6 Innings, 1 R, 4 H, 0 BB, 4 K

 

My error. I thought I read he had not. If he did that in Worcester, maybe yesterday's problem was the rain.

[Hugh2]

I don't foresee Bello going back to Worcester. All I said was that maybe he, Kluber, and Sale--note the company I've put him with--should start less often.

 

Last week Tampa started a 22 year old rookie, Taj Bradley. His first MLB start, and he looked far more competent and confident that Bello did yesterday--and Bello had 11 MLB starts last year.

 

Before Bello's start yesterday, the message traffic from the Sox was that he has great stuff this year, so good that they didn't even have him start at the AA or AAA level before starting in Boston.

 

This was obviously a mistake. He threw two innings in spring training. He effectively had zero spring training. Bello should have never started yesterday, he should have started in Worcester today. And maybe even 1-2 more starts down there. Spring trainings serves a purpose that Bello didn’t get the luxury of. It’s not worth judging him over because the Sox messed him up. If he’s as good as they say, he will be fine after a few starts I’m not worried.