The 2023 Red Sox Budget

[Old Red]

I'd take Swanson due to an upgrade in SS defense and being a year younger. His contract would end at 3 years younger than Bogey's in my second scenario.

 

Last year you wanted Baez. I’ll take Bogey.

[mvp 78]

The hardware doesn’t mean s as h much (different positions plus want he a KC dole team rep?), but Benintendi’s age and that he’s generally healthier than Nimmo should matter. The big issue with Benintendi is that as a hitter he’s about as unpredictable as it gets. 2022 he was a high OBP singles machine. In 2021, his OBP about 50 points lower but his SLG was 50 points higher. In 2020, he couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat, but he did draw a lot of walks.

 

So what is he?

 

In 2020, he bulked up and got injured so we can throw that season out. I think he's somewhere between 2021 and 2022.

 

xSLG

2017 52

2018 67

2019 55

2021 68

2022 55

 

While the actual slugging rate went down, the slugging rate went down across the league. His percentile was consistent with 17 (435) and 19 (456) even though this season it was down to 407.

[moonslav59]

If you sign Bogey for 6 years or Swanson for 6 years, how does Swanson's Contract end 3 years sooner if he's only a year younger? It still ends only a year earlier?

 

Good one.

 

My bad... again!

 

[mvp 78]

Last year you wanted Baez. I’ll take Bogey.

 

Baez

Manning

$15M

 

for

 

Cutter Coffey

Kutter Crawford

[moonslav59]

Last year you wanted Baez. I’ll take Bogey.

 

Glad you finally stated someone you want.

 

It's easy to never be wrong, when you don't state your specific plan ideas.

 

It's easy to be right, when you just say, "We need to upgrade our pen," then claim you were right when the pen sucks.

[Old Red]

Glad you finally stated someone you want.

 

It's easy to never be wrong, when you don't state your specific plan ideas.

 

It's easy to be right, when you just say, "We need to upgrade our pen," then claim you were right when the pen sucks.

 

I haven’t always said I want Bogey even when you, and others didn’t think Bogey was a good enough SS? Common sense says the BP needs upgrading if you want to have a winning team, and get out of last place in the Div it’s just a question of how high the priority is, which I put it on the top. Ideas?Ive been saying since last off season the Red Sox need a good reliable closer, and am still saying it.

[moonslav59]

I haven’t always said I want Bogey even when you, and others didn’t think Bogey was a good enough SS? Common sense says the BP needs upgrading if you want to have a winning team, and get out of last place in the Div it’s just a question of how high the priority is, which I put it on the top. Ideas?Ive been saying since last off season the Red Sox need a good reliable closer, and am still saying it.

 

Name a closer you want.

 

BTW, we both were almost exactly the same on what we'd offer Bogey, so keep building your strawmen. I value him as much as you do.

[moonslav59]

I'll be 100% correct on this winter's Red-like suggestions:

 

I want a SS who will do great in 2023, like Bogey and will pay him exactly the same as those who think he's "not a good enough SS."

I want a reliable closer and SP'er.

I want a reliable RF'er.

 

If we don't do this, Bloom sucks and I was 100% right.

[notin]

Baez

Manning

$15M

 

for

 

Cutter Coffey

Kutter Crawford

 

No!

 

No trading all the Sox Cutters/Kutters in one trade!!

[notin]

If you sign Bogey for 6 years or Swanson for 6 years, how does Swanson's Contract end 3 years sooner if he's only a year younger? It still ends only a year earlier?

 

First you need to put Swanson in a rocket that travels at the speed of light…

[Old Red]

Name a closer you want.

 

BTW, we both were almost exactly the same on what we'd offer Bogey, so keep building your strawmen. I value him as much as you do.

 

Bogey’s price has gone up the second he opted out. They have had since last offseason to work on this, and like I have said their actions have spoken more than their words.

[Old Red]

I'll be 100% correct on this winter's Red-like suggestions:

 

I want a SS who will do great in 2023, like Bogey and will pay him exactly the same as those who think he's "not a good enough SS."

I want a reliable closer and SP'er.

I want a reliable RF'er.

 

If we don't do this, Bloom sucks and I was 100% right.

 

This is more of a option than your Jeter Downs, Duran, and the Ref proposal you threw out there.

[notin]

An interesting but rarely (if ever on this board?) thought might be Willson Contreras as catcher/DH.

 

It might mean the Sox would have to keep Connor Wong and jettison Bobby Dalbec. I’m not sure that’s a dealbreaker for anyone.

 

Except Dalbec, obviously…

Edited November 9, 2022 by notin

[notin]

So my thoughts on free agent pitchers:

 

1. Give a QO to Eovaldi. If he accepts, he’s certainly tolerable for one season. I don’t think Nate has very many seasons left in him, but he was the best pitcher in the AL by fWAR as recently as 2021. $19.35mill is not a big raise, but the one year makes it a bargain.

 

2. Looking at Zone% and Contact% over the past 3 years, the two best free agent SPs might be Eovaldi and Carlos Rodon. Both are worrisome for multi year deals. Both are smarter investments than Jake deGrom.

 

3. Free agent relievers like Rafael Montero, Robert Suarez and Michael Fulmer should be signed. And Bloom? If you can’t decide which one, collect them all!

Edited November 9, 2022 by notin

[moonslav59]

This is more of a option than your Jeter Downs, Duran, and the Ref proposal you threw out there.

 

It wasn't a proposal, for God's sake.

 

When someone says one position is our highest need area, I look at our high need areas and see which ones I think need the most help. It's not a proposal: it's a statement of fact on what we have at each high need area and which one(s) is the worst.

 

I don't think it's the pen, especially if Houck and or Whitlock is part of it.

 

IMO, our weakest positions, right now, are SS, RF and SP (not necessarily in this order) and then the pen.

 

Of course, you overanalyzed again and read things into my statements that were not even mildly implied.

 

Nobody, including myself, is advocating Downs at SS, Duran/Refsnyder as platoons in corner OF or Winckowski as a SP'er. All need fixing, as does the pen. My point was only about what is our top priority, which implies ranking the need areas.

[Old Red]

It wasn't a proposal, for God's sake.

 

When someone says one position is our highest need area, I look at our high need areas and see which ones I think need the most help. It's not a proposal: it's a statement of fact on what we have at each high need area and which one(s) is the worst.

 

I don't think it's the pen, especially if Houck and or Whitlock is part of it.

 

IMO, our weakest positions, right now, are SS, RF and SP (not necessarily in this order) and then the pen.

 

Of course, you overanalyzed again and read things into my statements that were not even mildly implied.

 

Nobody, including myself, is advocating Downs at SS, Duran/Refsnyder as platoons in corner OF or Winckowski as a SP'er. All need fixing, as does the pen. My point was only about what is our top priority, which implies ranking the need areas.

It’s amazing that it is always someone else out there that is over analyzing, and not you. Anyone who even throws Downs, and Duran out there as being part of anything is more than a proverbial head scratcher. Throwing out extremes, because making the BP the #1 priority did not fit your opinion.SS once again is only a weak area, because the Red Sox have chosen at the moment to make it one.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

An interesting but rarely (if ever on this board?) thought might be Willson Contreras as catcher/DH.

 

Word is the Astros agreed to trade Urquidy for Contreras, straight up at the deadline, but the Astros owner, Jim Crane, nixed the deal.

 

One rumor says Crane asked Dusty Baker about Contreras, and he had "clubhouse concerns" about WC. They ended up settling on Vaz and Mancini.

[notin]

This is more of a option than your Jeter Downs, Duran, and the Ref proposal you threw out there.

 

 

The whole point was the Sox have better options for closer than they have for SS and RF…

[notin]

Word is the Astros agreed to trade Urquidy for Contreras, straight up at the deadline, but the Astros owner, Jim Crane, nixed the deal.

 

One rumor says Crane asked Dusty Baker about Contreras, and he had "clubhouse concerns" about WC. They ended up settling on Vaz and Mancini.

 

 

Let me debunk that rumor - it never happened.

 

Baker last managed the Cubs in 2006, at which time Contreras was 14 years old and nowhere near the Cubs’ clubhouse. In fact, he wouldn’t get in it for another 10 years. By then, was two teams further down his managerial career.

 

So not sure why Crane asked Baker. Might as well have asked me…

[moonslav59]

It’s amazing that it is always someone else out there that is over analyzing, and not you. Anyone who even throws Downs, and Duran out there as being part of anything is more than a proverbial head scratcher. Throwing out extremes, because making the BP the #1 priority did not fit your opinion.SS once again is only a weak area, because the Red Sox have chosen at the moment to make it one.

 

It's not throwing out extremes. They are near the top of the depth chart, as of now. That's how bad SS and corner OF is.

 

Soxprospects.com has Downs in the 1 slot at SS, Refsnyder #1 in RF and Duran in the #2 slot in CF. Of course, nobody expects them to be there on opening day, but that is precisely why those positions are our highest need areas, along with SP'er, where sure enough, they have Winckowski at the 5 slot before any additions.

 

Yes, I provide evidence to support my position, and yes, who we have at SS, RF and SP looks extremely bad.

 

I have also never said we don't have a high priority with the pen, as well. I've said, several times, we need at minimum 2 solid RP'er or 3-4 good ones. No, I don't think the pen is the number one high need area, but it still is in need of significant fixing.

 

A lot will depend on where we slot Whitlock and Houck. If they both will start, I'd move the pen above the rotation on my own personal priority list.

 

I guess posters should not be allowed to defend their positions, anymore.

[moonslav59]

Let me debunk that rumor - it never happened.

 

Baker last managed the Cubs in 2006, at which time Contreras was 14 years old and nowhere near the Cubs’ clubhouse. In fact, he wouldn’t get in it for another 10 years. By then, was two teams further down his managerial career.

 

So not sure why Crane asked Baker. Might as well have asked me…

 

BN Reports

 

Per Passan’s report: the Cubs and Astros’ front offices were agreement at the deadline to trade Contreras straight up for pitcher Jose Urquidy. It just had to get ownership approval. But Crane, leaning on input from Baker, spiked the deal.

 

Get this jaw-dropping quote from Baker: “Much as I like Willson Contreras, Urquidy was one of our best pitchers then,” Baker said. “I needed a guy that wasn’t going to complain about not playing every day. And this is his [free agent] year. See, that’s tough. When you trade for a player in his [free agent] year. Everybody’s about numbers and stuff, and I can’t blame them, no doubt. But that’s not what we needed.”

[moonslav59]

The whole point was the Sox have better options for closer than they have for SS and RF…

 

Yes, but this is not to say the pen is okay, as is. I don't think anyone thinks that.

 

I do think, and this may be a big if, if Whitlock & Houck stay in the pen, it might not be as bad as many think it is. We'd still need to replace Strahm and hope Barnes, Schreiber and maybe Taylor or Kelly/German come through, but to me, SS, RF and maybe SP'ing are higher need areas. All are high need, but some are higher than others.

 

I'm not sure why my position is so "extreme."

[Old Red]

The whole point was the Sox have better options for closer than they have for SS and RF…

 

Bogey is the best option for SS, and nobody on the present roster is as good an option for the closer.

[Old Red]

Yes, but this is not to say the pen is okay, as is. I don't think anyone thinks that.

 

I do think, and this may be a big if, if Whitlock & Houck stay in the pen, it might not be as bad as many think it is. We'd still need to replace Strahm and hope Barnes, Schreiber and maybe Taylor or Kelly/German come through, but to me, SS, RF and maybe SP'ing are higher need areas. All are high need, but some are higher than others.

 

I'm not sure why my position is so "extreme."

 

Who said your point was so extreme? Quick answer is NOBODY. You just don’t like others, and their opinion that the BP, and closer is the #1 need.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

It's not throwing out extremes. They are near the top of the depth chart, as of now. That's how bad SS and corner OF is.

 

Soxprospects.com has Downs in the 1 slot at SS, Refsnyder #1 in RF and Duran in the #2 slot in CF. Of course, nobody expects them to be there on opening day, but that is precisely why those positions are our highest need areas, along with SP'er, where sure enough, they have Winckowski at the 5 slot before any additions.

 

Yes, I provide evidence to support my position, and yes, who we have at SS, RF and SP looks extremely bad.

 

I have also never said we don't have a high priority with the pen, as well. I've said, several times, we need at minimum 2 solid RP'er or 3-4 good ones. No, I don't think the pen is the number one high need area, but it still is in need of significant fixing.

 

A lot will depend on where we slot Whitlock and Houck. If they both will start, I'd move the pen above the rotation on my own personal priority list.

 

I guess posters should not be allowed to defend their positions, anymore.

 

If Soxprospects.com has Jeter Downs being in the #1slot at SS anywhere I wouldn’t put any faith in them at all for anything.

[notin]

Bogey is the best option for SS, and nobody on the present roster is as good an option for the closer.

 

Bogaerts is not on the team. He opted out yesterday.

 

He officially became a free agent…

Edited November 9, 2022 by notin

[Old Red]

Bogaerts is not on the team. He opted out yesterday…

 

Didn’t say Bogey was on the team. Said he was the best option.

[moonslav59]

Who said your point was so extreme? Quick answer is NOBODY. You just don’t like others, and their opinion that the BP is the #1 need.

 

I "don't like others?" lmao.

 

I disagree with their opinions.

 

Personally, I'd have Arroyo at SS before Downs, but our current depth chart is what it is. We have a serious need at SS.

 

we could put Kike there, but then we have a serious need in CF.

 

Who do you have slotted at 2B, SS, LF, CF, RF, right now- before any additions? (Here, I'll throw you some bones...)

 

I might say:

2B Story

SS Arroyo (or flip him with Story)

LF Dugo

CF Kike

RF Refsnyder

No Downs or Duran, but both would be high up on the depth chart at SS/2B (Downs) and LF/CF (Duran). I don't like it. I hope both are traded, this winter, but it is what it is.

 

Maybe put EValdez ahead of Downs at 2B and force Story to play SS. That's okay. Some might call that extreme.

 

Maybe rush Rafaela to an OF slot or try Dalbec in LF.

 

Let us know your chosen depth chart, as of now.

 

(I doubt you give specifics. You like to avoid those.)

[moonslav59]

Didn’t say Bogey was on the team. Said he was the best option.

 

You really don't get it.

 

The depth chart is who you have, now.

 

We all want to add a SS. Saying Bogey is the best option sounds a lot like you think he's a very high priority- perhaps even number one. You've often said the whole off season starts with the Bogey decision, yet when I say SS is the number one priority, you jump down my throat and accuse me of disliking those who think the pen is first.

[notin]

BN Reports

 

Per Passan’s report: the Cubs and Astros’ front offices were agreement at the deadline to trade Contreras straight up for pitcher Jose Urquidy. It just had to get ownership approval. But Crane, leaning on input from Baker, spiked the deal.

 

Get this jaw-dropping quote from Baker: “Much as I like Willson Contreras, Urquidy was one of our best pitchers then,” Baker said. “I needed a guy that wasn’t going to complain about not playing every day. And this is his [free agent] year. See, that’s tough. When you trade for a player in his [free agent] year. Everybody’s about numbers and stuff, and I can’t blame them, no doubt. But that’s not what we needed.”

 

So Baker nixed Contreras because he assumed he’d complain a lot?

 

The only takeaway I get is Baker basically nixed the deal because he wanted a backup catcher and didn’t think Contreras wanted that role. That means little to the Sox…