2023 Free Agents

[Hugh2]

Not a terrible comp at all.

 

I speculated if the Sox would try to get Eovaldi for 4/45. Maybe 3/39 is better.

 

I hope this comment doesn’t come off the wrong way but Nathan is the most durable always gets hurt pitcher I’ve seen.

[notin]

Maybe they are just "interested" and not going to actually sign him?

 

 

I’ve seen a few other teams linked to Heaney already. He’s already getting more attention than he’s worth IMO.

 

I did not predict him to Boston in the MLBTR free agent contest. Apparently I predicted Baltimore.

 

For Boston, I predicted Correa, Eovaldi, Rogers and Clevinger. I do doubt they sign all four…

[Bellhorn04]

I speculated if the Sox would try to get Eovaldi for 4/45. Maybe 3/39 is better.

 

I hope this comment doesn’t come off the wrong way but Nathan is the most durable always gets hurt pitcher I’ve seen.

 

Nathan's talent and spirit are as good as it gets, but his body tends to betray him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I’ve seen a few other teams linked to Heaney already. He’s already getting more attention than he’s worth IMO.

 

I did not predict him to Boston in the MLBTR free agent contest. Apparently I predicted Baltimore.

 

For Boston, I predicted Correa, Eovaldi, Rogers and Clevinger. I do doubt they sign all four…

 

I have been in on all these guys -- for years, actually -- except Clevinger.

 

And I didn't realize he's only 11 months younger than Nate! Especially after that haul Cleveland got for him, including Naylor, Quantrill and Hedges.

 

From the Pads I prefer Manaea, but looking at Similar Pitchers on bb-ref, Sean's top comps are Marco Gonzalez, Greg Hibbard and Wei-Yin Chen.... Mike's are Severino, McCullers and Bassitt...

[Hugh2]

Nathan's talent and spirit are as good as it gets, but his body tends to betray him.

 

This is true, but he never stays down and out for too long and always has a 120+ inning season in him. He doesn’t have the talent, but he’s the opposite of Sale who dies down and stays down. Makes you think he if signed the same 3/39 deal Anderson did he’s probably be worth it. Maybe he has one bad season missing games, one good season that pays the bulk of the contract and one inbetween.

 

I’d be more than happy with the picks and an upgrade, but if Nate could be had for a lower AAV I’d happily welcome him back. Who says no to 4/45?

[notin]

The Marlins DFAd longtime Notin man-crush Eleiser Hernandez.

 

But I think at this point even I might not go above an MiLB contract for him…

[Hugh2]

Ok, now I'm actually concerned about Red. Guilt is sinking in, does anyone have his contact information? I think we need to check in on him.

[moonslav59]

Ok, now I'm actually concerned about Red. Guilt is sinking in, does anyone have his contact information? I think we need to check in on him.

 

He made a brief appearance.

 

Word is, he's locked in his mom's basement listening to sports talk radio 24/7, so he can come back to this forum as the most knowledgeable poster, here.

[Hugh2]

He made a brief appearance.

 

Word is, he's locked in his mom's basement listening to sports talk radio 24/7, so he can come back to this forum as the most knowledgeable poster, here.

 

What a bunch of bull he couldn't even come up with a name. Just name anyone?!?!?!? even if it is wrong or gets picked apart (not like he ain't used to that) he could have had a $100 dollars donated to charity.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

WEEI.com headline: "Ken Rosenthal reports the Red Sox are ready to spend this offseason"

 

Red Sox fan:"... doing what?"

 

talksox prediction: "... poking around, kicking tires, showing lots of reported interest, making offers that can be refused, and swearing they're all in"

 

(you can't say, "... raising prices"... already been done that)

[moonslav59]

What a bunch of bull he couldn't even come up with a name. Just name anyone?!?!?!? even if it is wrong or gets picked apart (not like he ain't used to that) he could have had a $100 dollars donated to charity.

 

When you ask him to defend his position with evidence or specifics, he accuses you of overanalyzing.

 

If you provide evidence and specifics to support your own position, he says you are overanalyzing things, and "everyone has a right to their own opinion." (Nobody doubts that, but part of a forum is to have back and forth on the reasonings behind differing opinions.).

 

He assumes he can just make a blanket statement about there being better choices than Kike at $10M/1 and not have to give specific reasons why he thinks that is true. It's like "It's true because I believe it is."

 

[moonslav59]

WEEI.com headline: "Ken Rosenthal reports the Red Sox are ready to spend this offseason"

 

Red Sox fan:"... doing what?"

 

talksox prediction: "... poking around, kicking tires, showing lots of reported interest, making offers that can be refused, and swearing they're all in"

 

(you can't say, "... raising prices"... already been done that)

 

The price of kicking tires has soared with inflation.

[Hugh2]

When you ask him to defend his position with evidence or specifics, he accuses you of overanalyzing.

 

If you provide evidence and specifics to support your own position, he says you are overanalyzing things, and "everyone has a right to their own opinion." (Nobody doubts that, but part of a forum is to have back and forth on the reasonings behind differing opinions.).

 

He assumes he can just make a blanket statement about there being better choices than Kike at $10M/1 and not have to give specific reasons why he thinks that is true. It's like "It's true because I believe it is."

 

 

The absence makes sense. He saw himself backed into a corner, so he figured he would buy his time until he could strike again. Like right now, I could see him replying to our last two exchanges because they're no longer centered on baseball but rather the dialogue. That's his arena. He will attack this conversation, or something similar to this. But you will never see him come in here and say what he would have done with the 2023 outfield without Kike, or even with him. Not even for $100 going towards Children's Cancer Research. Kind of selfish when you think about it.

[moonslav59]

The absence makes sense. He saw himself backed into a corner, so he figured he would buy his time until he could strike again. Like right now, I could see him replying to our last two exchanges because they're no longer centered on baseball but rather the dialogue. That's his arena. He will attack this conversation, or something similar to this. But you will never see him come in here and say what he would have done with the 2023 outfield without Kike, or even with him. Not even for $100 going towards Children's Cancer Research. Kind of selfish when you think about it.

 

Or, he'll say for the umpteenth time, he said we "should sign Jansen," last winter.

 

The fact is there is no clear comp for Kike at $10M on the FA market or on last year's FA market.

 

Look what the Brewers paid JBJ a couple years back. LOL!

 

Is it a fantastic deal? Maybe. He may suck, this year, and we'll never hear the end of it, but until he names a name, he can gloat all he wants about "being right," but if you never give a specific opinion, you cannot claim to be right or wrong.

 

It's easy to sit back and pick apart the mistakes a GM makes or the wrong suggestions by fans. Think about how many times we heard the name JBJ & Renfroe or even Paxton & Diekman compared to the how many times we heard mention of Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm and even Hill & McGuire. To me, it seemed pretty clear the balance of winter moves by Bloom worked out to the plus. It was the carry-over players, injuries and maybe some non-moves that hurt the most. You'd never know that by the tone and volume of anti Bloom winter moves posts.

[moonslav59]

Wow, the Jays just traded Teoscar Hernandez to the Mariners for Erik Swanson & Adam Macko (a prospect!)

 

TH has a 132 OPS+ since 2020 and 121 since 2018.

 

He's not a plus defender, but GEEESH!

 

Maybe Winker is a sure bet to be traded, now.

Edited November 16, 2022 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Or, he'll say for the umpteenth time, he said we "should sign Jansen," last winter.

 

The fact is there is no clear comp for Kike at $10M on the FA market or on last year's FA market.

 

Look what the Brewers paid JBJ a couple years back. LOL!

 

Is it a fantastic deal? Maybe. He may suck, this year, and we'll never hear the end of it, but until he names a name, he can gloat all he wants about "being right," but if you never give a specific opinion, you cannot claim to be right or wrong.

 

It's easy to sit back and pick apart the mistakes a GM makes or the wrong suggestions by fans. Think about how many times we heard the name JBJ & Renfroe or even Paxton & Diekman compared to the how many times we heard mention of Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm and even Hill & McGuire. To me, it seemed pretty clear the balance of winter moves by Bloom worked out to the plus. It was the carry-over players, injuries and maybe some non-moves that hurt the most. You'd never know that by the tone and volume of anti Bloom winter moves posts.

 

I think for many Red Sox fans -- and I wont say "most," just the many I know -- the most frustrating part of the Bloom Era has been the non-moves.

 

From a selfish fan standpoint, we've been reading or hearing the Sox have been interested or even "in" on too many good players who have joined other contenders in every offseason and at trade deadlines. Speculating on reinforcements used to be fun, because Boston always got its share of them -- and that always provided at least a spark of hope for fandom.

 

From a concerned fan's view, leaving the roster incomplete like it was going into last season or not sufficiently upgrading areas of weakness when the team really needed it has been unacceptable.

[mvp 78]

Wow, the Jays just traded Teoscar Hernandez to the Mariners for Erik Swanson & Adam Macko (a prospect!)

 

TH has a 132 OPS+ since 2020 and 121 since 2018.

 

He's not a plus defender, but GEEESH!

 

Maybe Winker is a sure bet to be traded, now.

 

BTV had it as an overpay...

[harmony]

Wow, the Jays just traded Teoscar Hernandez to the Mariners for Erik Swanson & Adam Macko (a prospect!)

 

TH has a 132 OPS+ since 2020 and 121 since 2018.

 

He's not a plus defender, but GEEESH!

 

Maybe Winker is a sure bet to be traded, now.

A "big" overpay by Seattle, according to Baseball Trade Values:

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-108738/

[mvp 78]

The price of kicking tires has soared with inflation.

 

Shopping at Publix isn't getting any cheaper especially once they start putting in Pours, their new onsite bar, all over the place.

[moonslav59]

I think for many Red Sox fans -- and I wont say "most," just the many I know -- the most frustrating part of the Bloom Era has been the non-moves.

 

From a selfish fan standpoint, we've been reading or hearing the Sox have been interested or even "in" on too many good players who have joined other contenders in every offseason and at trade deadlines. Speculating on reinforcements used to be fun, because Boston always got its share of them -- and that always provided at least a spark of hope for fandom.

 

From a concerned fan's view, leaving the roster incomplete like it was going into last season or not sufficiently upgrading areas of weakness when the team really needed it has been unacceptable.

 

I get the frustration, too. I've felt it.

 

On some of the "interested in" players, I'm glad we came up short, such as Matz, Baez and Suzuki. Certainly, Wacha, Story and Refsnyder worked out better and at less cost, yet we are left with a bad taste in our mouth. Maybe that was the garlic toast.

[notin]

I think for many Red Sox fans -- and I wont say "most," just the many I know -- the most frustrating part of the Bloom Era has been the non-moves.

 

From a selfish fan standpoint, we've been reading or hearing the Sox have been interested or even "in" on too many good players who have joined other contenders in every offseason and at trade deadlines. Speculating on reinforcements used to be fun, because Boston always got its share of them -- and that always provided at least a spark of hope for fandom.

 

From a concerned fan's view, leaving the roster incomplete like it was going into last season or not sufficiently upgrading areas of weakness when the team really needed it has been unacceptable.

 

Is that really true to the Bloom Era?

 

There have always been Sox connections to players that aren’t elsewhere, going back to Lou Gorman to Duquette to Epstein to Cherington and even with Dombrowski.

 

It might be a little worse now, but don’t you sort of expect that when the team has no farm and has been in the process of trying to get some control wrapped around a $230mill payroll. I mean, if you have no budget and no farm, Joe do you add players?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

It might be a little worse now, but don’t you sort of expect that when the team has no farm and has been in the process of trying to get some control wrapped around a $230mill payroll. I mean, if you have no budget and no farm, Joe do you add players?

 

I understand the reasons, but it doesn't make the non-moves less frustrating... especially after they clearly chose to stay over the tax threshold.

[mvp 78]

I understand the reasons, but it doesn't make the non-moves less frustrating... especially after they clearly chose to stay over the tax threshold.

 

A little louder for the people in the back...

[moonslav59]

I understand the reasons, but it doesn't make the non-moves less frustrating... especially after they clearly chose to stay over the tax threshold.

 

If my theory is correct about the Story signing being a somewhat "unplanned" signing, that might explain why some earlier moves were not made, but before the Story signing we still had room for several "near miss" signings.

[notin]

I understand the reasons, but it doesn't make the non-moves less frustrating... especially after they clearly chose to stay over the tax threshold.

 

I don’t mind staying over the threshold. They were trying to get into the playoffs. Not like they knew Eovaldi was going to collapse and only make two more starts after the deadline.

 

They traded a catcher, managed to replace him with a guy who actually hit much better, got a 1b acquired a bunch of prospects, and dumped Diekman

 

Sure they needed a hot streak to get in, but that’s hardly unheard of. And once in, anything can happen. Philly barely eked into the postseason and then ride that wave to the World Series.

 

They did need at least one arm, probably more. But I don’t mind that they at least tried rather than playing out the string…

[Hugh2]

If my theory is correct about the Story signing being a somewhat "unplanned" signing, that might explain why some earlier moves were not made, but before the Story signing we still had room for several "near miss" signings.

 

I think it was planned. I feel they saw the shift changes coming and realized plus defense was about to become A LOT more valuable at 2nd and they struck preemptively.

[moonslav59]

I think it was planned. I feel they saw the shift changes coming and realized plus defense was about to become A LOT more valuable at 2nd and they struck preemptively.

 

Certainly a logical position to hold. Maybe they thought they could sign Story and still re-set, but it seemed to me, as more and more players were showed interest in signed elsewhere, we were heading for an under-tax-line season- then, BAM! The Story signing.

 

Your reasoning makes sense, but I still think there was a high priority to stay under in 2022, but circumstances changed or became more apparent to upper management, and the balance tilted towards spending more.

[Hugh2]

Certainly a logical position to hold. Maybe they thought they could sign Story and still re-set, but it seemed to me, as more and more players were showed interest in signed elsewhere, we were heading for an under-tax-line season- then, BAM! The Story signing.

 

Your reasoning makes sense, but I still think there was a high priority to stay under in 2022, but circumstances changed or became more apparent to upper management, and the balance tilted towards spending more.

 

Not necessarily, they were two games away from a WS In 2021 and 2023 was always an option to reset. They look bad not trading JDM and resetting at the deadline. But that’s easy for me to say in hindsight

[moonslav59]

Not necessarily, they were two games away from a WS In 2021 and 2023 was always an option to reset. They look bad not trading JDM and resetting at the deadline. But that’s easy for me to say in hindsight

 

I know it's just theory.

 

To be honest, I think 2021 surprised them, and that is why they spent some at the deadline. I'm pretty sure 2021 raised their expectations up as it did with fans, but I still think they knew they had too many holes in the roster to be considered a top competitive team, even if just about everything went right, which of course, it did not.

 

Now, what are the true expectations for 2023? Was it just a snow job to talk about being much better in 2023, or did they really mean it? Maybe their hopes for incoming prospects is higher than most fans view it, or maybe they really do plan on spending right up to the line or blow past it, and re-set next winter. I'm leaning towards the 2024 season looking like the better chance at going all the way, so I think we re-set, this winter.

 

I think we can get much better in 2023 while making no moves that hurt 2024, and some that help in 2024, too and beyond. (I hope so, too.)

[notin]

I know it's just theory.

 

To be honest, I think 2021 surprised them, and that is why they spent some at the deadline. I'm pretty sure 2021 raised their expectations up as it did with fans, but I still think they knew they had too many holes in the roster to be considered a top competitive team, even if just about everything went right, which of course, it did not.

 

Now, what are the true expectations for 2023? Was it just a snow job to talk about being much better in 2023, or did they really mean it? Maybe their hopes for incoming prospects is higher than most fans view it, or maybe they really do plan on spending right up to the line or blow past it, and re-set next winter. I'm leaning towards the 2024 season looking like the better chance at going all the way, so I think we re-set, this winter.

 

I think we can get much better in 2023 while making no moves that hurt 2024, and some that help in 2024, too and beyond. (I hope so, too.)

 

 

I don’t think whether or not it surprised them matters and I don’t think the roster was as full of holes as many claim.

 

One issue fans struggle to acknowledge is that the gap between the best and worst MLB teams is significantly closer than the equivalent gap in other sports. And that’s why teams can turn around fast and why trans can put together surprisingly stellar seasons despite being “full of holes”…