August 23 vs. Blue Jays, 7:10

[iortiz]

First off, he was never the man in charge in tampa.

 

Secondly, Cashman has never finished in last place below .500 in his career.....

It's fair to say that he believes and most importantly, he understands the TB culture which has been successful. That's why he was brought to Boston. No rocket science here. He was brought to replicate what Friedman is doing in LA based on TB's management and operations but with steroids —money. As I said in other post, he inherited a clogged team but time is ticking and this is a big market team. Next year will be decisive for him.

 

Regarding Cashman, it's beyond me why he is still the GM of the NYY. He should have been gone long time ago but I won't complain because you won't win anything under his management. Sure you still can win 90+ games in a regular basis but the way I see it, you haven't been built nor are built to win it all yet. A franchise like the NYY shouldn't bear all this drought throughout all these years.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

It's fair to say that he believes and most importantly, he understands the TB culture which has been successful. That's why he was brought to Boston. No rocket science here. He was brought to replicate what Friedman is doing in LA based on TB's management and operations but with steroids —money. As I said in other post, he inherited a clogged team but time is ticking and this is a big market team. Next year will be decisive for him.

 

Regarding Cashman, it's beyond me why he is still the GM of the NYY. He should have been gone long time ago but I won't complain because you won't win anything under his management. Sure you still can win 90+ games in a regular basis but the way I see it, you haven't been built nor are built to win it all yet. A franchise like the NYY shouldn't bear all this drought throughout all these years.

 

Big Papi just hit one over the SOX BP.

[moonslav59]

The Cards had a better rested Gibson, who is the best RH pitcher I've ever seen. No disrespect to Pedro, but Bob was greater for a longer period of time.

Btw, if I'm not mistaken, in Lonborg's 2 wins against the Cards in that '67 WS he gave up a total of 3 hits. He was amazing.

 

Gibson was phenomenal, but it's hard to compare eras. Pedro put his numbers up in the era of big offense and juiced up batters. Gibson's best seasons were when they mound was at a different height and Yaz won the BA title hitting .301.

 

No disrespect to Bob.

 

Looking at the ERA+ numbers, which compares pitchers vs other from that year (era) here's what we see in their peak years: BOLD = leg league

 

Gibson:

136

151 1962

105

127

126

148

110 1967

258 1968

164

133

119

139

133

 

Pedro

146 1993

124

123

117

219 1997

163

243 1999

291 2000

188

202 2002

211 2003

124

146

 

Pedro 166 in his best consecutive 13 seasons ('93 to '05)

Gibson 137 in his best 13 ('61 to '73)

[/b]

[illinoisredsox]

The Cards had a better rested Gibson, who is the best RH pitcher I've ever seen. No disrespect to Pedro, but Bob was greater for a longer period of time. Hell, Gibson was one of the main reasons MLB lowered the pitching mound

Btw, if I'm not mistaken, in Lonborg's 2 wins against the Cards in that '67 WS he gave up a total of 3 hits. He was amazing.

 

Correct on Lonborg. 1 run on 3 hits between games 2 and 5.

 

Gibson’s 1968 season was sick. 22-9 (at a time when W-L meant a lot more than it does now), 1.12 ERA and a 0.853 WHIP, 34 starts, 28 complete games and 13 shutouts. IIRC, he never was removed from a game during an inning.

[Oscars]

I remember the good old days when JDM came up with runners on, and you would feel good he would produce some RBIs.

Right now he is a shell of his former self.

[FredLynn]

Bloom is gonna be gone after next year if this team doesn’t play better.

 

He had his chance. He was given what-three years and THIS is all he could come up with?

He needs to go after THIS year, along with Cora and probably 70% of the players.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Gibson was phenomenal, but it's hard to compare eras. Pedro put his numbers up in the era of big offense and juiced up batters. Gibson's best seasons were when they mound was at a different height and Yaz won the BA title hitting .301.

 

No disrespect to Bob.

 

Looking at the ERA+ numbers, which compares pitchers vs other from that year (era) here's what we see in their peak years: BOLD = leg league

 

Gibson:

136

151 1962

105

127

126

148

110 1967

258 1968

164

133

119

139

133

 

Pedro

146 1993

124

123

117

219 1997

163

243 1999

291 2000

188

202 2002

211 2003

124

146

 

Pedro 166 in his best consecutive 13 seasons ('93 to '05)

Gibson 137 in his best 13 ('61 to '73)

[/b]

 

Your numbers make a strong argument for Pedro and I believe no pitcher in baseball history had a better season than Pedro had in 2000. In 2000 Pedro led the AL with an ERA under 2. Placing second was Clemens with an ERA over 3. I'm still going with Gibby as my number 1 with Pedro as a very close number 2.

[illinoisredsox]

I remember the good old days when JDM came up with runners on, and you would feel good he would produce some RBIs.

Right now he is a shell of his former self.

 

At least he hit the ball hard for once. I was expecting a Called K or maybe a weak grounder to short.

 

Still, he has cost himself a ton of money with this years performance and really, his woes go back to the last 1/3 of last year.

[iortiz]

Big Papi just hit one over the SOX BP.

 

I'd give Bloom one more year but that's it. Not sure about Cora though.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

At this point one has to believe that when Franchy does hit a dinger, it's a complete accident.

It's sad in a way to have that much strength and not have the talent to take advantage of it.

Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Get out your rally caps.

[illinoisredsox]

Okay, that’s 2 at Raffy tonight. Vlad needs to go down early tomorrow. Start Brasier or whoever to do the job

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Regarding Kevin's comments on Robo chUMPS. Robots have been replacing workers at jobs for years and most of those replaced workers were doing their jobs better than most of these chUMPS.

Also, Kevin, if these chUMPS were doing a 'good job' like you said, then Robo Umps wouldn't be in the conversation.

Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

One last thing about MLB umpiring. As far as the Umpires' union having made any effort to improve the umpiring I've got two words, Angel Hernandez. Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[Maxbialystock]

He had his chance. He was given what-three years and THIS is all he could come up with?

He needs to go after THIS year, along with Cora and probably 70% of the players.

 

2020 was a non-season because of COVID.

 

2021 was a successful season when the Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card, whipped the 100 win Rays 3 games to 1 in the ALDS, and got to the ALCS before going down to the Astros, 4 games to 2. You carping critics love to pretend 2021 never happened.

 

The story of 2022 is a decimated pitching staff, especially the rotation: Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Bello, and Seabold--all starters this year--have all been on the IL this year, and Sale, Eovaldi, Houck, Bello, and Seabold are on it now. Sale and Eovaldi, both high-cost acquisitions/starters courtesy of DD, contributed a combined WAR of 1.0 this year. Eovaldi is back on the IL and Sale was barely off it and will finish the season on it. Paxton has never left the IL.

 

And you better believe that it was John Henry not Bloom who made the decision not to retain Mookie for $365M for 12 years.

 

I'm not saying every deal Bloom has made has worked, but the simple fact is that the pitching staff has killed the Sox this year largely because of injuries.

[Oscars]

When you have injury prone starting pitchers, surprise surprise, they get injured.

A lot of it is on Bloom for his signing of pitchers with significant injury histories - Wacha and Hill, when you already had Sale and Eovaldi in the rotation who were likely injury candidates.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Oscars

[JDavis76]

It's fair to say that he believes and most importantly, he understands the TB culture which has been successful. That's why he was brought to Boston. No rocket science here. He was brought to replicate what Friedman is doing in LA based on TB's management and operations but with steroids —money. As I said in other post, he inherited a clogged team but time is ticking and this is a big market team. Next year will be decisive for him.

 

Regarding Cashman, it's beyond me why he is still the GM of the NYY. He should have been gone long time ago but I won't complain because you won't win anything under his management. Sure you still can win 90+ games in a regular basis but the way I see it, you haven't been built nor are built to win it all yet. A franchise like the NYY shouldn't bear all this drought throughout all these years.

 

That remains to be seen.

 

And, last I checked, he does have a few WS titles on his resume.

 

How many does hang 'em chaim have on his?

[JDavis76]

2020 was a non-season because of COVID.

 

2021 was a successful season when the Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card, whipped the 100 win Rays 3 games to 1 in the ALDS, and got to the ALCS before going down to the Astros, 4 games to 2. You carping critics love to pretend 2021 never happened.

 

The story of 2022 is a decimated pitching staff, especially the rotation: Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Bello, and Seabold--all starters this year--have all been on the IL this year, and Sale, Eovaldi, Houck, Bello, and Seabold are on it now. Sale and Eovaldi, both high-cost acquisitions/starters courtesy of DD, contributed a combined WAR of 1.0 this year. Eovaldi is back on the IL and Sale was barely off it and will finish the season on it. Paxton has never left the IL.

 

And you better believe that it was John Henry not Bloom who made the decision not to retain Mookie for $365M for 12 years.

 

I'm not saying every deal Bloom has made has worked, but the simple fact is that the pitching staff has killed the Sox this year largely because of injuries.

 

And it's a simple fact that orlando put together an injury prone staff full of question marks......

[redsoxrules]

Okay, that’s 2 at Raffy tonight. Vlad needs to go down early tomorrow. Start Brasier or whoever to do the job

 

I've been saying this since last series.

This team is soft. If Pedro was on this team he'd plunk Vladdy and another batter. This team is just letting the Jay's run all over them in every aspect.

[moonslav59]

2020 was a non-season because of COVID.

 

2021 was a successful season when the Sox beat the Yankees in the wild card, whipped the 100 win Rays 3 games to 1 in the ALDS, and got to the ALCS before going down to the Astros, 4 games to 2. You carping critics love to pretend 2021 never happened.

 

The story of 2022 is a decimated pitching staff, especially the rotation: Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi, Hill, Whitlock, Houck, Bello, and Seabold--all starters this year--have all been on the IL this year, and Sale, Eovaldi, Houck, Bello, and Seabold are on it now. Sale and Eovaldi, both high-cost acquisitions/starters courtesy of DD, contributed a combined WAR of 1.0 this year. Eovaldi is back on the IL and Sale was barely off it and will finish the season on it. Paxton has never left the IL.

 

And you better believe that it was John Henry not Bloom who made the decision not to retain Mookie for $365M for 12 years.

 

I'm not saying every deal Bloom has made has worked, but the simple fact is that the pitching staff has killed the Sox this year largely because of injuries.

 

The problem is, anyone would look foolish going after Henry, so Bloom is made out to be the guy who chose to slash the budget and make building the farm the top priority.

[Tedballgame]

Correct on Lonborg. 1 run on 3 hits between games 2 and 5.

 

Gibson’s 1968 season was sick. 22-9 (at a time when W-L meant a lot more than it does now), 1.12 ERA and a 0.853 WHIP, 34 starts, 28 complete games and 13 shutouts. IIRC, he never was removed from a game during an inning.

 

As good as Gibson was in '67 series, if Lonborg did in Game 7 what he did in earlier games, Red Sox win. Pitching on 2 days rest just wasn't feasible.

[Tedballgame]

That remains to be seen.

 

And, last I checked, he does have a few WS titles on his resume.

 

How many does hang 'em chaim have on his?

 

Yankees won their last one when? They aren't winning this year that's for sure. Boone is a crappy manager and team has too many flaws. Judge won't be hitting all those homers in the playoffs. Houston owns the Yankees in the playoffs.

[cukes]

Yankees won their last one when? They aren't winning this year that's for sure. Boone is a crappy manager and team has too many flaws. Judge won't be hitting all those homers in the playoffs. Houston owns the Yankees in the playoffs.

 

Cashman has one series this century and that was thanks to a retiring Matsui who had the series of his life, the 90's teams were a product of Gene Michael and Bob Watson, I tell the Yankee fans all the time they will not win with Cashman he only signs certain style players suited for right field and he convinced it's home run or nothing, proof is in the 22 year results, besides, he has Hal under his thumb and he is lost, I hate the Yankees but this is the fact, he buries them in contracts and it's impossible to financially go to a game, one announcer said, it's a good thing Hal inherited his money

[moonslav59]

Cashman has one series this century and that was thanks to a retiring Matsui who had the series of his life, the 90's teams were a product of Gene Michael and Bob Watson, I tell the Yankee fans all the time they will not win with Cashman he only signs certain style players suited for right field and he convinced it's home run or nothing, proof is in the 22 year results, besides, he has Hal under his thumb and he is lost, I hate the Yankees but this is the fact, he buries them in contracts and it's impossible to financially go to a game, one announcer said, it's a good thing Hal inherited his money

 

Shhhhh....

 

We don't won't the Yanks to can cashman or Boone.

[JDavis76]

Yankees won their last one when? They aren't winning this year that's for sure. Boone is a crappy manager and team has too many flaws. Judge won't be hitting all those homers in the playoffs. Houston owns the Yankees in the playoffs.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

[cukes]

Shhhhh....

 

We don't won't the Yanks to can cashman or Boone.

 

I have to agree they give us the best chance at winning

[JDavis76]

Cashman has one series this century and that was thanks to a retiring Matsui who had the series of his life, the 90's teams were a product of Gene Michael and Bob Watson, I tell the Yankee fans all the time they will not win with Cashman he only signs certain style players suited for right field and he convinced it's home run or nothing, proof is in the 22 year results, besides, he has Hal under his thumb and he is lost, I hate the Yankees but this is the fact, he buries them in contracts and it's impossible to financially go to a game, one announcer said, it's a good thing Hal inherited his money

 

Cashman certainly had his input on more than one winner.

 

As far as "impossible to financially go to a game", you do realize that the sox top that category, right?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

As good as Gibson was in '67 series, if Lonborg did in Game 7 what he did in earlier games, Red Sox win. Pitching on 2 days rest just wasn't feasible.

 

Although Lonborg was referred to as 'Gentleman Jim,' he had a pretty good mean attitude on the mound. He was known to hit a few batters and he would have had no problem plunking an A-hole like Vlad, Jr.

Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[Maxbialystock]

When you have injury prone starting pitchers, surprise surprise, they get injured.

A lot of it is on Bloom for his signing of pitchers with significant injury histories - Wacha and Hill, when you already had Sale and Eovaldi in the rotation who were likely injury candidates.

 

Right. Wacha was/is a huge mistake because he isn't injury-proof. That he has the highest WAR--"wins above replacement"--on the pitching staff means nothing.

 

And I just love how you brand Bloom as the ignorant, useless, just plan dumb procurer of pitchers when this team this year is shelling out $ 63M for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi--none of whom are currently pitching for the Sox (nor will Price or Sale the rest of this season-- and whose total contribution to the 2022 Sox is combined WAR of +0.9. All of them were hired by DD, not Chaim Bloom.

[Maxbialystock]

Shhhhh....

 

We don't won't the Yanks to can cashman or Boone.

 

Meh. I take the long view and recognize that the Yankees with their 27 World Series titles are a terrific and very worthy rival. I don't hate the Yankees and rarely have run into a Yankees fan in person I couldn't get along with, if only because I usually know a lot about the Yankees.

 

JDavis76 just likes being obnoxious on a Red Sox thread. In his eyes, he's being heroic.