August 23 vs. Blue Jays, 7:10

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I am no expert by a long shot. But I could swear that the big difference between Arroyo before and Arroyo now is that he is flat seeing the ball better. That not only keeps him from swinging at bad pitches (he did swing at the high fast ball), but enables him to make a better swing when the ball is hittable.

 

Also this. I do not see this team quitting. The pitching stinks of course, but just because they stink and not because they aren't trying.

 

To remind: Sale barely pitched this year, Eovaldi is back on the IL, Wacha was on it for over a month, as was Hill as was Whitlock (who was a starter). Bello and Seabold have started and are on the IL. Houck has started and is on the IL (after he returned to the bullpen and became the primary closer). And James Tommy John Paxton looks like he won't pitch this season. Sale, it should be noted, recovered from tommy john and pitched last season, but this season he missed 3 months from a rib injury in spring training, followed by a broken finger from a line drive, followed by a broken wrist from a bicycle fall.

 

Go ahead and call the above excuses, but my not so expert opinion is that they are pretty good excuses.

 

I certainly hope that Sale doesn't decide to take up skiing in the off season.

[JDavis76]

I certainly hope that Sale doesn't decide to take up skiing in the off season.

 

Skiing??!!

 

C'mon, man, he can't even ride a, ya know, the thing.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I believe Franchy is still young enough to change sports. He has the build of a guy who might have a shot at football.

[a700hitter]

I am no expert by a long shot. But I could swear that the big difference between Arroyo before and Arroyo now is that he is flat seeing the ball better. That not only keeps him from swinging at bad pitches (he did swing at the high fast ball), but enables him to make a better swing when the ball is hittable.

 

Also this. I do not see this team quitting. The pitching stinks of course, but just because they stink and not because they aren't trying.

 

To remind: Sale barely pitched this year, Eovaldi is back on the IL, Wacha was on it for over a month, as was Hill as was Whitlock (who was a starter). Bello and Seabold have started and are on the IL. Houck has started and is on the IL (after he returned to the bullpen and became the primary closer). And James Tommy John Paxton looks like he won't pitch this season. Sale, it should be noted, recovered from tommy john and pitched last season, but this season he missed 3 months from a rib injury in spring training, followed by a broken finger from a line drive, followed by a broken wrist from a bicycle fall.

 

Go ahead and call the above excuses, but my not so expert opinion is that they are pretty good excuses.

When you load up your rotation with a bunch of guys who live on the IL and pitchers recovering from surgery, this should be expected. Not a good excuse imo. Also not a good idea to start the season with a mid 30’s closer who had a nightmarish second half in 21 and didn’t make the playoff roster. And not a good idea for your big bullpen acquisition to be a guy that throws less than 50% strikes. No excuses. Accountability is in order for building a team that most people thought had major holes that went unaddressed. The staff he built was foreseeably awful and he never filled the 1B hole or RF.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I certainly hope that Sale doesn't decide to take up skiing in the off season.

 

Only seasoned SOX fans would know who this is in reference to.

[iortiz]

I am no expert by a long shot. But I could swear that the big difference between Arroyo before and Arroyo now is that he is flat seeing the ball better. That not only keeps him from swinging at bad pitches (he did swing at the high fast ball), but enables him to make a better swing when the ball is hittable.

 

Also this. I do not see this team quitting. The pitching stinks of course, but just because they stink and not because they aren't trying.

 

To remind: Sale barely pitched this year, Eovaldi is back on the IL, Wacha was on it for over a month, as was Hill as was Whitlock (who was a starter). Bello and Seabold have started and are on the IL. Houck has started and is on the IL (after he returned to the bullpen and became the primary closer). And James Tommy John Paxton looks like he won't pitch this season. Sale, it should be noted, recovered from tommy john and pitched last season, but this season he missed 3 months from a rib injury in spring training, followed by a broken finger from a line drive, followed by a broken wrist from a bicycle fall.

 

Go ahead and call the above excuses, but my not so expert opinion is that they are pretty good excuses.

 

Still, Bloom bet on going with an injury prone & fragile staff —Withlock, Sale, Paxton, Wacha and Hill. Pivetta is nothing but a 4th starter. Seabold sucks. Bello is not ready. Houck is inconsistent as hell. The pen is full of bums.

 

You just can't dumpster diving all the way as Bloom tried to do this year with a big market team. Sure he inherited a clogged team in the books but still had several questionable moves.

 

I still believe in Bloom but he is going to be on a very thin ice next year —if he keeps the job. Next year won't be excuses and it already looks like an uphill battle which hasn't even started.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Years ago I liked the euphemism used to describe ineffective pitchers. They were referred to as 'innings eaters.' Wakefield during his last couple of years was called that a lot. Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[d-money]

Their highest picks lately, Trey Ball #7 overall is out of baseball and Jay Groome #12 overall was traded to SD for Hosmer. Neither panned out. Baseball draft is a crap shoot.

 

Well they have stunked at developing starting pitching unlike other franchises lately.

[d-money]

Still, Bloom bet on going with an injury prone & fragile staff —Withlock, Sale, Paxton, Wacha and Hill. Pivetta is nothing but a 4th starter. Seabold sucks. Bello is not ready. Houck is inconsistent as hell. The pen is full of bums.

 

You just can't dumpster diving all the way as Bloom tried to do this year with a big market team. Sure he inherited a clogged team in the books but still had several questionable moves.

 

I still believe in Bloom but he is going to be on a very thin ice next year —if he keeps the job. Next year won't be excuses and it already looks like an uphill battle which hasn't even started.

 

Bloom is gonna be gone after next year if this team doesn’t play better.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Good news for 2023: Wacha, the SOX best starter, should be back.

Bad news for 2023: Wacha isn't going to be the guy who will be available every 5th day like a Pivetta.

[Maxbialystock]

Everyone makes contact against Winck.

 

Like I said, no starter can succeed with just two pitches, a slider and a fastball--especially when he isn't good at hitting the corners.

 

Hats off to Davis even though he allowed Winck's baserunners to score and gave up 2 himself. Nevertheless, he went 2.2 innings and threw 59 pitches and had 2 scoreless innings after he and Plawecki agreed it was OK to use the changeup more often.

 

Relatedly, while I agree the changeup is a tough pitch to master, it can be awfully valuable, even when a lefty throws one to a lefty batter and a righty to a righty batter. It does need that small but sharp break at the end to work well. Winck doesn't have one, nor a good curve, so he was dead meat vs. the Jays.

 

One more time. Yes, absolutely, Bogey, Raffy, and especially JDM are in slumps, but I do not see any quit in them. Indeed, all three can hit and are hoping to get contracts at the end of this season.

 

I agree with whoever said that Pham misplayed that double to left field. He is not comfortable in LF at Fenway. He is actually better, I think, in RF even though the doesn't have the necessary range or arm to play that position well.

 

When and if Story returns, I hope they try Arroyo at 1b again. He's hitting and he can't play the outfield.

[Maxbialystock]

Bloom is gonna be gone after next year if this team doesn’t play better.

 

I think he's too good for that, but completely agree that both managers and GM's are hired to be fired. So it could happen.

[Tedballgame]

Single, double and triple tonight for Casas. Now up to .266.

[JDavis76]

I think he's too good for that, but completely agree that both managers and GM's are hired to be fired. So it could happen.

 

Based on what exactly?

[Maxbialystock]

I certainly hope that Sale doesn't decide to take up skiing in the off season.

 

You are the best at those comments.

[Tedballgame]

Only seasoned SOX fans would know who this is in reference to.

 

Jim Lonborg. Ruined a good career.

[redsoxrules]

Blue Jay's absolutely own the Sox this year. It's disgusting really. They are being bullied. They are not making the playoffs. Vladdy needs to be plunked in this series in retaliation to Alek Manoah being a bitch the last time they faced the Jay's.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Jim Lonborg. Ruined a good career.

 

He pitched after his accident, but he was never as good. I believe he was 25 in 1967.

[Maxbialystock]

Based on what exactly?

 

He was the architect of a very good and reliable system for finding and developing and, when it made sense, turning over good players at Tampa Bay and proved it for more than a decade, from 2008 to 2019. He is smart and effective.

 

The problem is that he needs to adjust to a franchise that has a lot more money and expectations--since John Henry became owner--of getting to and winning the World Series, which the Rays have never done.

 

Plus he took over at a point when the high-priced pitching (Price, Sale, Eovaldi) has been failing at the same time Mookie, Bogey, Raffy, and to a far lesser degree JDM were/are insisting on big contracts. And John Henry seems to have given clear guidance not to spend big on a few stars--a position I happen to agree with.

 

The Yankees have more money and a much bigger fan base than the Sox and their GM has utterly failed to deliver the goods, but he's still on the job. So peddle your papers elsewhere, sonny.

[JDavis76]

He was the architect of a very good and reliable system for finding and developing and turning over players at Tampa Bay and proved it for more than a decade, from 2008 to 2019. He is smart and effective.

 

The problem is that he needs to adjust to a franchise that has a lot more money and expectations--since John Henry became owner--of getting to and winning the World Series, which the Rays have never done. Plus he took over at a point when the high-priced pitching (Price, Sale, Eovaldi) has been failing at the same time Mookie, Bogey, Raffy, and to a far lesser degree JDM were/are insisting on big contracts. And John Henry seems to have given clear guidance not to spend big on a few stars--a position I happen to agree with.

 

The Yankees have more money and a much bigger fan base than the Sox and their GM has utterly failed to deliver the goods, but he's still on the job. So peddle your papers elsewhere, sonny.

 

First off, he was never the man in charge in tampa.

 

Secondly, Cashman has never finished in last place below .500 in his career.....

[Maxbialystock]

Good news for 2023: Wacha, the SOX best starter, should be back.

Bad news for 2023: Wacha isn't going to be the guy who will be available every 5th day like a Pivetta.

 

This year is far and away the best Wacha has ever pitched. But, as you say, the most innings he's pitched in one season is 181. So we'll just have to see.

[Tedballgame]

He pitched after his accident, but he was never as good. I believe he was 25 in 1967.

 

Wish he could have been on regular rest for Game 7 in '67.

[moonslav59]

Good news for 2023: Wacha, the SOX best starter, should be back.

Bad news for 2023: Wacha isn't going to be the guy who will be available every 5th day like a Pivetta.

 

He's a FA after this year.

 

Our best bet to bring him back might be to offer him a QO. (He'd probably take it.)

 

I would not offer Nate a QO, because he might take it.

[Maxbialystock]

First off, he was never the man in charge in tampa.

 

Secondly, Cashman has never finished in last place below .500 in his career.....

 

Good point on Chaim Bloom even though he has a lot of responsibility for developing the Rays. He did want to GM/President or whatever, which is why he applied for the job several times.

 

As for Cashman, good for him. But I have never heard of a Yankee fan or owner or GM or player ever, ever emphasize anything other than 27 WS wins. For the Yankees, that's the only standard. And since JH took over the Sox after the 2002 season, the Sox have won 4 WS and the Yankees 1.

[JDavis76]

He's a FA after this year.

 

Our best bet to bring him back might be to offer him a QO. (He'd probably take it.)

 

I would not offer Nate a QO, because he might take it.

 

Your boy winky looked good once again......

[Maxbialystock]

He's a FA after this year.

 

Our best bet to bring him back might be to offer him a QO. (He'd probably take it.)

 

I would not offer Nate a QO, because he might take it.

 

Agree on both. Of course.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Wish he could have been on regular rest for Game 7 in '67.

 

The Cards had a better rested Gibson, who is the best RH pitcher I've ever seen. No disrespect to Pedro, but Bob was greater for a longer period of time. Hell, Gibson was one of the main reasons MLB lowered the pitching mound

Btw, if I'm not mistaken, in Lonborg's 2 wins against the Cards in that '67 WS he gave up a total of 3 hits. He was amazing.

Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[moonslav59]

This year is far and away the best Wacha has ever pitched. But, as you say, the most innings he's pitched in one season is 181. So we'll just have to see.

 

His rookie year was pretty awesome, when you count the first two rounds of the playoffs.

 

2.78 ERA/ 1.098 WHIP

0.43 ERA/0.572 WHIP in 21 NL Playoff IP

 

2.26 ERA overall: regular season + NL Playoffs (84 IP combined)

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

He's a FA after this year.

 

Our best bet to bring him back might be to offer him a QO. (He'd probably take it.)

 

I would not offer Nate a QO, because he might take it.

 

I agree. Wacha has to be one of the priorities.

Edited August 24, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[JDavis76]

Good point on Chaim Bloom even though he has a lot of responsibility for developing the Rays. He did want to GM/President or whatever, which is why he applied for the job several times.

 

As for Cashman, good for him. But I have never heard of a Yankee fan or owner or GM or player ever, ever emphasize anything other than 27 WS wins. For the Yankees, that's the only standard. And since JH took over the Sox after the 2002 season, the Sox have won 4 WS and the Yankees 1.

 

Yup, and it's a good thing baseball wasn't invented in 2002.....