A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

With the booting of Barnes off the 40, Verdugo now is listed as 5th in 40 man roster seniority! Pivetta is 6th.

 

While several players were in the Sox system and added after Verdugo and Pivetta, this is now clearly Bloom's team.

 

Mata is 9th in seniority. Whitlock 11th. Even Refsnyder, Schreiber, Paxton & Story are top 20. Story was added 10 months ago and is 18th.

 

And Brasier is our post-nuclear cockroach.

[moonslav59]

I'm mashing the Mondesi/Arroyo timeshare button.

 

If they can work out an arrangement where they are never on the IL, at the same time, that would be very helpful.

 

Is that too much to ask for?

 

Last year, Story was out from July 13 to Aug 26th, and Arroyo missed a couple weeks in June and another couple in July.

 

Add to this, Kike was out from June 8- Aug 15, so we ended up seeing Sanchez, Downs and others play 2B for too long.

[moonslav59]

And Brasier is our post-nuclear cockroach.

 

I used to defend Brasier.

 

Don't ask me why.

[mvp 78]

Running through potential trade options for Barnes:

1. Mets for Carasco, adds to the 2017 feel of the rotation with Sale, Paxton and Kluber!

2. Phillies for Kingery, provides additional injury insurance for Arroyo and Mondesi.

3. Rangers for Brad Miller? Yuck.

4. Rockies for Blackmon? Yuck x2.

[mvp 78]

And Brasier is our post-nuclear cockroach.

 

It's going to be awesome.

[moonslav59]

Running through potential trade options for Barnes:

1. Mets for Carasco, adds to the 2017 feel of the rotation with Sale, Paxton and Kluber!

2. Phillies for Kingery, provides additional injury insurance for Arroyo and Mondesi.

3. Rangers for Brad Miller? Yuck.

4. Rockies for Blackmon? Yuck x2.

 

Cards for DeJong or Giants for Crawford?

 

DeSclafani?

N Ahmed?

 

[mvp 78]

If they can work out an arrangement where they are never on the IL, at the same time, that would be very helpful.

 

Is that too much to ask for?

 

Last year, Story was out from July 13 to Aug 26th, and Arroyo missed a couple weeks in June and another couple in July.

 

Add to this, Kike was out from June 8- Aug 15, so we ended up seeing Sanchez, Downs and others play 2B for too long.

 

Niko Goodrum and Edwin Diaz, come on down! You're the next contestants on Bloom wasn't Right!

[Bobe2]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/01/chaim-bloom-explains-why-red-sox-chose-matt-barnes-to-designate-for-assignement.html

Bloom on why Barnes

[mvp 78]

Cards for DeJong or Giants for Crawford?

 

DeSclafani?

N Ahmed?

 

 

Crawford's trade value is much higher than Barnes' according to BTV. DeSclafani is listed as "low" availability and when healthy he's a decent pitcher. Ahmed is coming off shoulder surgery. Pass.

 

I included Kingery as an option on because if he somehow regains his form, there are 3 club options after this year for 13M AAV.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And Brasier is our post-nuclear cockroach.

 

Keith Richards was a better investment than Garrett Richards.

[moonslav59]

Crawford's trade value is much higher than Barnes' according to BTV. DeSclafani is listed as "low" availability and when healthy he's a decent pitcher. Ahmed is coming off shoulder surgery. Pass.

 

I included Kingery as an option on because if he somehow regains his form, there are 3 club options after this year for 13M AAV.

 

I mentioned B Crawford, because of his salary. We'd have to give more than just Barnes to get him, but Barnes + $8-9M might do it, or Barnes + Verdugo or Duran +$4M.

 

DeJong might be the best fit from my list, but I doubt any GM values Barnes all that much.

[moonslav59]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/01/chaim-bloom-explains-why-red-sox-chose-matt-barnes-to-designate-for-assignement.html

Bloom on why Barnes

 

At least Bloom is not afraid to cut loose someone he extended at decent money. Some GMs cling to 'their own guys" out of fear they will be second guessed to death. I guess Bloom knows that's going to happen in Boston, no matter what he does.

[notin]

Running through potential trade options for Barnes:

1. Mets for Carasco, adds to the 2017 feel of the rotation with Sale, Paxton and Kluber!

2. Phillies for Kingery, provides additional injury insurance for Arroyo and Mondesi.

3. Rangers for Brad Miller? Yuck.

4. Rockies for Blackmon? Yuck x2.

 

If they trade for anyone there but Kingery, they have to DFA someone else…

[mvp 78]

If they trade for anyone there but Kingery, they have to DFA someone else…

 

Does Kingery still have options remaining?

[notin]

Does Kingery still have options remaining?

 

Does it matter?

 

He’s not currently on the Phillies 40 man roster, so he wouldn’tneed to be added to Boston’s.

 

And even if he did, he could easily be DFAd and no one is going to claim a $9.25 mill utility player who has repeatedly struggled against MLB pitching.

 

He does have 3.05 years of service time, so he could refuse a minor league assignment. Not sure if he would or even if he should…

[mvp 78]

Does it matter?

 

He’s not currently on the Phillies 40 man roster, so he wouldn’tneed to be added to Boston’s.

 

And even if he did, he could easily be DFAd and no one is going to claim a $9.25 mill utility player who has repeatedly struggled against MLB pitching.

 

He does have 3.05 years of service time, so he could refuse a minor league assignment. Not sure if he would or even if he should…

 

Didn't realize he wasn't on the 40 man roster.

[moonslav59]

Didn't realize he wasn't on the 40 man roster.

 

It's not much different, though. We trade Barnes for Kingery and they pay for Barnes and hope he helps, while we pay for Kingery and hope he provides depth at a position of shallowness.

[Bellhorn04]

If they release Barnes and he gets signed, which he will, the Sox get about $725,000 knocked off the payroll, including for tax purposes, right? Maybe that's all they want to salvage.

[moonslav59]

If they release Barnes and he gets signed, which he will, the Sox get about $725,000 knocked off the payroll, including for tax purposes, right? Maybe that's all they want to salvage.

 

Not really. Barnes' slot of the 40 will be filled by someone making at least $725K, right?

[Bobe2]

At least Bloom is not afraid to cut loose someone he extended at decent money. Some GMs cling to 'their own guys" out of fear they will be second guessed to death. I guess Bloom knows that's going to happen in Boston, no matter what he does.

 

I really never expected what’s gone on this winter, I expected Bloom to stay under tax line, but I also expected him to sign a couple longer contracts with plus players to start assembling a core for the team, but nothing but old and injured players. The one substantial contract Yoshida played less than half the games defensively with his old team because he can’t catch, if Casas can hit mlb pitching he could be a good core player if he can’t hit we have Dalbec with a better glove and that don’t cut it, the Sox have been touting Mayer’s as the next coming for everyone’s sake I hope they’re right, with the rule changes there will be a lot more runs scored and not as much emphasis on HR this team with a lot of luck could play over .500 ball but I don’t see a playoff team or anything resembling one. This is a lost year but we should get a pretty good idea how our top prospects will preform

[Bellhorn04]

Not really. Barnes' slot of the 40 will be filled by someone making at least $725K, right?

 

Now I'm stumped.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I mentioned B Crawford, because of his salary. We'd have to give more than just Barnes to get him, but Barnes + $8-9M might do it, or Barnes + Verdugo or Duran +$4M.

 

DeJong might be the best fit from my list, but I doubt any GM values Barnes all that much.

 

 

Are you actually saying that Dugo and Duran are of equal value? What are you smoking?

[mvp 78]

Not really. Barnes' slot of the 40 will be filled by someone making at least $725K, right?

 

Barnes' slot is technically Duvall's slot now, which we had accounted for at 100%.

[mvp 78]

Are you actually saying that Dugo and Duran are of equal value? What are you smoking?

 

No, he's saying that if they traded Duran instead of Verdugo that they'd have to give additional money to make up the difference in player value.

[notin]

Not really. Barnes' slot of the 40 will be filled by someone making at least $725K, right?

 

No.

 

It was filled by someone making $7mill -Adam Duvalll…

[moonslav59]

No.

 

It was filled by someone making $7mill -Adam Duvalll…

 

In this case, yes. I was trying to say you never really save that $725K, no matter what.

[moonslav59]

I really never expected what’s gone on this winter, I expected Bloom to stay under tax line, but I also expected him to sign a couple longer contracts with plus players to start assembling a core for the team, but nothing but old and injured players. The one substantial contract Yoshida played less than half the games defensively with his old team because he can’t catch, if Casas can hit mlb pitching he could be a good core player if he can’t hit we have Dalbec with a better glove and that don’t cut it, the Sox have been touting Mayer’s as the next coming for everyone’s sake I hope they’re right, with the rule changes there will be a lot more runs scored and not as much emphasis on HR this team with a lot of luck could play over .500 ball but I don’t see a playoff team or anything resembling one. This is a lost year but we should get a pretty good idea how our top prospects will preform

 

They pretty much have to bank on Mayer and rafaela filling key roles in the next few years. I can see why they'd construct a roster based on that, even if it doesn't end up as planned.

[moonslav59]

No, he's saying that if they traded Duran instead of Verdugo that they'd have to give additional money to make up the difference in player value.

 

Yes, Duran +$4M is close to Verdugo's value on BTV, too, and I think BTV over-values Duran.

[Bellhorn04]

In this case, yes. I was trying to say you never really save that $725K, no matter what.

 

In actual cash outlay, they would save $725K, because someone else will be paying Barnes the $725K.

[moonslav59]

In actual cash outlay, they would save $725K, because someone else will be paying Barnes the $725K.

 

But then someone being paid, at least $725K takes Barnes' place on the 40 man roster and cancels out that "savings." The tax budget counts only 40 man roster and IL players.

 

$9,250,000 Barnes- $725,000 + $725,000 (or more) for the player added to the 40, when barnes leaves, and so there is never a "savings" overall.