A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Bobe2]

One encouraging quote from Bloom when asked about the club’s need to add a couple of up-the-middle players, he said it “doesn’t even need to be limited to two.”

 

After all the lies that have been told in the last three years by bloom and your going to believe him, I think it obvious whose still sporting a brown nose. What it looks like to me is the Sox will spend over $200 million and claim the cellar 3 out of the last 4 years years, ask yourself how can you spend so much and still suck

[moonslav59]

After all the lies that have been told in the last three years by bloom and your going to believe him, I think it obvious whose still sporting a brown nose. What it looks like to me is the Sox will spend over $200 million and claim the cellar 3 out of the last 4 years years, ask yourself how can you spend so much and still suck

 

Ask yourself a few questions.

[Bobe2]

Ask yourself a few questions.

 

I’ve been asking myself how can you spend so much and be so bad, I look at other team’s payroll and see what their spending and what they have in talent and look at what we put on the field and I wonder how are we spending so much, it makes no sense, he doesn’t like to spend, most of our players are on minor league contracts, the Hanley type contracts are gone, there’s what 4 players with sizable contracts but so do other teams, I really don’t understand how we can spend over $200 million and suck when only the Yankees outspend us in the division,

[Bobe2]

We were the only team that went over the luxury tax last year and not make the playoffs

[notin]

I’ve been asking myself how can you spend so much and be so bad, I look at other team’s payroll and see what their spending and what they have in talent and look at what we put on the field and I wonder how are we spending so much, it makes no sense, he doesn’t like to spend, most of our players are on minor league contracts, the Hanley type contracts are gone, there’s what 4 players with sizable contracts but so do other teams, I really don’t understand how we can spend over $200 million and suck when only the Yankees outspend us in the division,

 

The only thing spending guarantees is a large payroll.

 

Last year the Sox got next to nothing from their farm/minimum wage players, and had to rely on too many veterans, many of whom got hurt. Couple that with significant missed time from the two highest paid players on the team (Sale and Story) and the decline of the third highest paid player (Martinez), and you get an underperforming overpaid team.

 

A bit similar to 2019, when we started seeing real money made by the Sox younger stars, coupled with veteran talent, and no contributing players left making minimum wage keeping payroll in check. That team had the highest payroll in all of MLB and still missed the playoffs…

[iortiz]

We have become the home of retirement. Bloom is not going to last here.

[moonslav59]

I’ve been asking myself how can you spend so much and be so bad, I look at other team’s payroll and see what their spending and what they have in talent and look at what we put on the field and I wonder how are we spending so much, it makes no sense, he doesn’t like to spend, most of our players are on minor league contracts, the Hanley type contracts are gone, there’s what 4 players with sizable contracts but so do other teams, I really don’t understand how we can spend over $200 million and suck when only the Yankees outspend us in the division,

 

Ask yourself how much Bloom had to spend and what team and farm he was handed. Does that question matter?

 

The 2019 was already showing signs of serious decline, and that was after subtracting just Kimbrel and Kelly from 2018. We had no farm input, since Devers in 2017. Then, Bloom was forced to cut so much salary he ended up losing Betts, Price and Porcello along with minor key pieces to the 2018 team like Pearce, Nunez and others. The budget cuts were massive. The Sale and Nate extensions had not even started, yet, but they counted on the budget you are holding against Bloom.

 

Ask yourself why that's Bloom's fault that $60M was cut and a winning team was supposed to be created with $20M to spend on a team already on the downswing. Is that some whacky question to ask yourself?

 

Then, in 2021, he's given $40M, which does not even bring him to the 2019 level. Still, no farm help, unless you count Houck. ASsk yourself why you expected a winning team, not why a miracle didn't happen. Oh wait, a miracle almost did happen.

 

Finally, in 2022 (March to be exact), the pursestrings are barely opened up for the Story signing. Still, only Houck has shown any plus from the farm in 5 years running. Ask yourself, why we should have won in 2022.

 

Our biggest contract was on the IL, all year. We were still paying for half Price. Nate was not the Nate of 2018 or 2021, and was still on DD's payroll.

 

Maybe the right questions need to be asked.

[moonslav59]

The only thing spending guarantees is a large payroll.

 

Last year the Sox got next to nothing from their farm/minimum wage players, and had to rely on too many veterans, many of whom got hurt. Couple that with significant missed time from the two highest paid players on the team (Sale and Story) and the decline of the third highest paid player (Martinez), and you get an underperforming overpaid team.

 

A bit similar to 2019, when we started seeing real money made by the Sox younger stars, coupled with veteran talent, and no contributing players left making minimum wage keeping payroll in check. That team had the highest payroll in all of MLB and still missed the playoffs…

 

We also stopped adding big FAs before 2019 and made no prospects for star trades after the 2018 deadline.

 

We extended Sale, Nate and Bogey (with an opt out.) That was all we did until the Story signing.

 

From devers in the summer of '17 to Bello & Casas in the summer of '22, we added just Houck from the farm. That's 5 years of no Betts, Bogeys or even Beni and JBJs. Basically, nothing.

 

People keep thinking Bloom was handed the 2018 team. Even DD was not happy with the change of philosophy during the 2019 season.

[Bobe2]

Ask yourself how much Bloom had to spend and what team and farm he was handed. Does that question matter?

 

The 2019 was already showing signs of serious decline, and that was after subtracting just Kimbrel and Kelly from 2018. We had no farm input, since Devers in 2017. Then, Bloom was forced to cut so much salary he ended up losing Betts, Price and Porcello along with minor key pieces to the 2018 team like Pearce, Nunez and others. The budget cuts were massive. The Sale and Nate extensions had not even started, yet, but they counted on the budget you are holding against Bloom.

 

Ask yourself why that's Bloom's fault that $60M was cut and a winning team was supposed to be created with $20M to spend on a team already on the downswing. Is that some whacky question to ask yourself?

 

Then, in 2021, he's given $40M, which does not even bring him to the 2019 level. Still, no farm help, unless you count Houck. ASsk yourself why you expected a winning team, not why a miracle didn't happen. Oh wait, a miracle almost did happen.

 

Finally, in 2022 (March to be exact), the pursestrings are barely opened up for the Story signing. Still, only Houck has shown any plus from the farm in 5 years running. Ask yourself, why we should have won in 2022.

 

Our biggest contract was on the IL, all year. We were still paying for half Price. Nate was not the Nate of 2018 or 2021, and was still on DD's payroll.

 

Maybe the right questions need to be asked.

So what your saying is we are paying more for the players further down the roster than other teams

[moonslav59]

After all the lies that have been told in the last three years by bloom and your going to believe him, I think it obvious whose still sporting a brown nose. What it looks like to me is the Sox will spend over $200 million and claim the cellar 3 out of the last 4 years years, ask yourself how can you spend so much and still suck

 

I'm not so sure why you and Red are so fixated with brown noses. Nobody is defending horrific spending and bad signings and trades.

 

Pointing out the situation whoever the next GM was going to be is not sucking up to anyone. I'd have pointed out the same difficulties had DD stayed and been handed the same demands and budgets. It really has nothing to do with Bloom. I have nothing invested in Bloom.

 

Many saw the writing on the wall before 2018. I'm happy as hell with everything we did that led to those glorious 3 seasons from 2016-2018, but that doesn't mean I have to bury my head in the sand about the consequences of what we did to get there.

 

No GM in the history of MLB could have turned the 2019 team, with the budget and farm they were handed into a winner in 2020. One could easily argue the 2021 team was nothing short of miraculous and the 2022 team a let down, but we've only now reached the point, budgetwise, where we were in 2019, and we are now staring at a reset. Add to this, the state of farm infusions after Devers, and to me, it's a bit off the wall to have the expectations some here had and still have.

 

Fine: look only at the budget inside a bubble and ask no questions, except, "Why aren't we winning?"

 

Not me.

[moonslav59]

So what your saying is we are paying more for the players further down the roster than other teams

 

We had 18 roster spots in need of major improvement and were handed a massive budget cut. Tell me how you'd have handled that.

 

I'll wait.

 

Want more specifics?

 

We lost Betts, Price, Porcello, Pearce, Nunez and then watched ERod miss the 2020 season and Sale basically miss the last 3 years. That's over $60M in budget cuts and the new GM was handed $20M to spend.

 

Call it "spending for players down the roster," if you wish, but how do you sign studs with just $20M and 18 slots to fill?

 

Counting the Ottavino salary in 2021, Bloom was given about $40M to spend, which barely brought us to within $25M of the 2019 budget. He had about 12 slots to fill on that roster. That's less than $4M per player.

 

Tell me how you'd spend the money?

 

I'll wait.

 

Now, did Bloom sign only good players? Hell NO! But, unlike you, I ask what should I have expected at $3.8M per player?

[moonslav59]

MLBTR reports many teams are interested in Tanner Houck.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/01/red-sox-trade-rumors-tanner-houck.html

[moonslav59]

Looks like we have about $17M to spend and still stay below the tax line, counting the Duvall signing. With so many contracts having incentives, we may need to keep a buffer. My guess is, we will also keep some room for deadline deals, if needed.

 

That might leave room for 1-2 minor to moderate additions to the roster. I'd say our highest need area is SS, but it looks like they've penciled Kike into that slot, so 2B should be the number 1 priority, right now.

 

I'd also like to see us get a real RF'er, but I doubt that happens.

 

Adding someone like Fulmer would be nice, of course.

[Bellhorn04]

We have become the home of retirement. Bloom is not going to last here.

 

Stopgaps to the kids. You will be seeing younger Red Sox teams pretty soon.

[mvp 78]

1. Jose Iglesias as backup SS/2B.

2. RP? I'm not sure who the Sox would target as the guys left over have higher BB rates.

3. Probably going to add to the grab bag of MiLB deals before ST opens on 2/16.

[mvp 78]

Stopgaps to the kids. You will be seeing younger Red Sox teams pretty soon.

 

Now we just need younger posters.

[notin]

Now we just need younger posters.

 

I can’t get younger, but if it helps, I can be more immature…

[mvp 78]

I can’t get younger, but if it helps, I can be more immature…

 

Immaturity isn't our problem here from what I've noticed with our elder posters.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Now we just need younger posters.

 

No -- most will spend too much time bashing teachers, while a select few will counter that poor test scores on state assessments were entirely dependent upon grade level budgets and wasting funds at Staples on pencils, notebooks and colored construction paper.

[moonslav59]

Immaturity isn't our problem here from what I've noticed with our elder posters.

 

Fixed that for you.

[moonslav59]

The final tax budget numbers for 2022 are in. The Sox went over by $1.2M, which caused our comp picks for losing Bogey and Nate to fall a couple rounds.

 

Thanks, Bloom!

[mvp 78]

The final tax budget numbers for 2022 are in. The Sox went over by $1.2M, which caused our comp picks for losing Bogey and Nate to fall a couple rounds.

 

Thanks, Bloom!

 

If Ward pitches well this season, you have a strong case to just let Bloom go even if the Sox aren't a dumpster fire.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tapia made a lot of sense after signing Duvall. Duvall, if healthy, should mash in Fenway. Tapia is Duvall insurance and can be a PR/4th OFer if needed.

I honestly think Duvall is going to have a good season and be prime trade bait at the deadline. He is the new Renfroe

[moonslav59]

If Ward pitches well this season, you have a strong case to just let Bloom go even if the Sox aren't a dumpster fire.

 

It might matter how well Yoshida, Jansen, Martin, Turner and Duvall are doing.

[moonslav59]

Tapia made a lot of sense after signing Duvall. Duvall, if healthy, should mash in Fenway. Tapia is Duvall insurance and can be a PR/4th OFer if needed.

I honestly think Duvall is going to have a good season and be prime trade bait at the deadline. He is the new Renfroe

 

I'm hoping Tapia means we trade Duran.

 

I'd trade him for Mateo or even Mondesi.

[jacksonianmarch]

It might matter how well Yoshida, Jansen, Martin, Turner and Duvall are doing.

 

Doesn't really matter. You know the sox are gonna be suspect at best in 2023.

[Bellhorn04]

The final tax budget numbers for 2022 are in. The Sox went over by $1.2M, which caused our comp picks for losing Bogey and Nate to fall a couple rounds.

 

Thanks, Bloom!

 

Only $1.2 mill? As my late father would say: "Cripes".

[moonslav59]

Doesn't really matter. You know the sox are gonna be suspect at best in 2023.

 

You know my position.

 

I'm looking forward to saying, "I told you so," again.

[notin]

I'm hoping Tapia means we trade Duran.

 

I'd trade him for Mateo or even Mondesi.

 

I do think Tapia means Duran gets DFAd. And as he’s extremely unlikely to clear waivers, I’d think he does get traded.

 

But trading him for any of the aforementioned shortstops, while it makes sense from a baseball perspective, fails to achieve the objective of DFAing Duran in the first place, which is clearing a 40 man roster spot for Duvall…

[notin]

Doesn't really matter. You know the sox are gonna be suspect at best in 2023.

 

I swear you said that exact same thing (except for the year, obviously) in 2018…