The Way Too Early Tear Down Thread

[Old Red]

So then what you’re saying is the Sox need is a GM who can ignore all that noise and build an organization using his baseball acumen. Sounds like a good idea to me…

 

We finally agree on something that what works in Tampa won’t work in Boston, and Bloom’s not the man for the job anyway. It took you awhile to get it, and welcome to the A.B.B.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Do we know what budget he has actually been given?

 

It's never been public record, so boards like these only reflect the usual assumptions and speculation. But giving too much blame or credit to one guy in charge, like Bloom or Dombrowski, is like saying there weren't already other significant and influential personnel in the front office or throughout the minor league developmental and scouting departments.

 

Why not just blame and/or cheer Brian O'Halloran, the current General Manager, who's been employed by the Red Sox the entire century? Is it even feasible he has no say?

[Old Red]

The individual poster is named Mr. Strawman.

 

There is not a single poster, I know of, who has not criticized Bloom more than 2-3 times. Not one.

 

These guys love to play the persecuted, when all they do all day is persecute Bloom and anyone who tries to justify why he can't fill every hole on a limited budget.

 

I think Bloom is just a puppet anyway. I think he was told to hire Cora back, and to trade Mookie, which he pretty much botched in his returns. Now I’ll give you he doesn’t have a very big allowance from JH, but Bloom has had 3 years to work on all these FA to be, and all he has done is to lowball Bogey, and Raffy, and if a fire sale has to happen, and does happen it has to start with Bloom. No prospects they get back will make up for a Bogey, Raffy, or JD just like Dugy does not replace Mookie.

[notin]

We finally agree on something that what works in Tampa won’t work in Boston, and Bloom’s not the man for the job anyway. It took you awhile to get it, and welcome to the A.B.B.

 

Actually I think Bloom is a pretty good choice for a GM whose job is to not capitulate to fan impatience and media whining…

[Old Red]

Actually I think Bloom is a pretty good choice for a GM whose job is to not capitulate to fan impatience and media whining…

 

You mean like lowballing Bogey? So I guess you could add the players to the media, and fans. A.B.B.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bloom was brought to Boston to operate akin to what he did in Tampa. Except instead of helming an up and coming team with a deep farm and limited long term commitments, he got a team full of overpaid and underperforming players with a totally dead farm. Developing a Rays plus approach is possible (look at LA), but it takes time to implement

[Old Red]

Bloom was brought to Boston to operate akin to what he did in Tampa. Except instead of helming an up and coming team with a deep farm and limited long term commitments, he got a team full of overpaid and underperforming players with a totally dead farm. Developing a Rays plus approach is possible (look at LA), but it takes time to implement

 

That’s the problem that Boston isn’t Tampa.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s the problem that Boston isn’t Tampa.

 

The only real differences are:

 

-Boston has a lot more money

-The fans and media bitch a lot louder when things are bad

[Old Red]

The only real differences are:

 

-Boston has a lot more money

-The fans and media bitch a lot louder when things are bad

 

Tampa doesn’t even have many fans to begin with, but agree with the rest, but those are big differences.

[moonslav59]

I think Bloom is just a puppet anyway. I think he was told to hire Cora back, and to trade Mookie, which he pretty much botched in his returns. Now I’ll give you he doesn’t have a very big allowance from JH, but Bloom has had 3 years to work on all these FA to be, and all he has done is to lowball Bogey, and Raffy, and if a fire sale has to happen, and does happen it has to start with Bloom. No prospects they get back will make up for a Bogey, Raffy, or JD just like Dugy does not replace Mookie.

 

It's hard to know what else we could have gotten for Betts, and it's a lot easier to criticize what we did get.

 

I think the idea is to get the best we can for players we know we will not re-sign or extend, and then use the money saved to make up the difference. Supplement that with some farm help, and the plan is probably the best we can hope for, if signing large and long deals is off the table.

[JDavis76]

Bloom was brought to Boston to operate akin to what he did in Tampa. Except instead of helming an up and coming team with a deep farm and limited long term commitments, he got a team full of overpaid and underperforming players with a totally dead farm. Developing a Rays plus approach is possible (look at LA), but it takes time to implement

 

And you know this because you discussed it with henry over steak and eggs one morning prior to his hiring of hang 'em chaim?

[JDavis76]

It's never been public record, so boards like these only reflect the usual assumptions and speculation. But giving too much blame or credit to one guy in charge, like Bloom or Dombrowski, is like saying there weren't already other significant and influential personnel in the front office or throughout the minor league developmental and scouting departments.

 

Why not just blame and/or cheer Brian O'Halloran, the current General Manager, who's been employed by the Red Sox the entire century? Is it even feasible he has no say?

 

Exactly my point, these posters continually post their opinion as fact.

[moonslav59]

And you know this because you discussed it with henry over steak and eggs one morning prior to his hiring of hang 'em chaim?

 

Well, he was handed a winter spending budget very unlike DD's for his first 2 winters.

[JDavis76]

Well, he was handed a winter spending budget very unlike DD's for his first 2 winters.

 

Any proof of that?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The only real differences are:

 

-Boston has a lot more money

-The fans and media bitch a lot louder when things are bad

 

Fans and media react to what they see as evident and immediate. In real time, it's easier to judge a GM like Dombrowski, who constantly recruits viable big league reinforcements to help improve the current club... instead of a guy like Bloom, who is more public about the future, which compels him to cut corners (whether that's his style or an ownership edict/reason he was hired).

 

Dombro in three years acquired guys like Kimbrel, Price, Sale, Nunez, Moreland, Pearce, Eovaldi and JD Martinez -- all of whom contributed to a title. But he also inherited heroes that were drafted or added by other GMs: Betts, Benintendi, Bradley, Bogaerts, Devers, Holt, Porcello, ERod, Kelly.

 

Bloom was CBO when the Sox went to the ALCS. Some of his guys were key through the '21 postseason: Kike, Verdugo, Schwarber, Pivetta, Whitlock, Renfroe. But a lot of legacies also led the way (or were supposed to): Devers, Bogey, JD, Vazquez, ERod, Sale.

 

When seasons don't work out, that's when GMs face the wrath. In 2019, Dombro brought in Andrew Cashner, Chris Owings and Gorkys Hernandez... and got fired. What will Chaim Bloom do to fortify the 2022 Sox?

[Old Red]

It's hard to know what else we could have gotten for Betts, and it's a lot easier to criticize what we did get.

 

I think the idea is to get the best we can for players we know we will not re-sign or extend, and then use the money saved to make up the difference. Supplement that with some farm help, and the plan is probably the best we can hope for, if signing large and long deals is off the table.

 

I agree we fans don’t know what else we could have gotten for Betts, but the point being we did not get back equal value, and what are the chances we get back any kind of equal value for Bogey, JD, Evol, and Raffy if it comes to that. That’s a lot of value if not replaced close to equal then you end up worse off than you were before. I understand that getting something back is better than just letting them walk out the door, but to me it all shouldn’t have all come to this.

[mvp 78]

Maybe your creative accounting skills exceed those of the current front office….

 

I wouldn't have re-signed Sale.

[mvp 78]

abb. Anybody but Bloom. What I should have said about DD was I was kind of a fence sitter. He made a couple of good trades for a closer, and a starting pitcher, but then turned around, and made a bad choice to resign Sale. I don’t think he ruined the farm though.

 

But Bloom hasn't done enough for the farm? WTH?

[mvp 78]

We finally agree on something that what works in Tampa won’t work in Boston, and Bloom’s not the man for the job anyway. It took you awhile to get it, and welcome to the A.B.B.

 

Why is it that what works in Tampa can not work in Boston?

[notin]

You mean like lowballing Bogey? So I guess you could add the players to the media, and fans. A.B.B.

 

 

Well if the GM doesn’t stay within his financial limits, there are going to be issues at some point.

 

I think I agree with Merloni (who, unlike me, probably knows Bogaerts) that the Sox and Xander will eventually work something out. But right now, does anyone even know what Bogaerts wants? Are you saying if wants? If X wants 10 years $250 mill, should Bloom just get it done?

[Bellhorn04]

Any proof of that?

 

The proof of what a GM's budget is is what he spends. No GM in his right mind would not spend up to the budget.

[Old Red]

But Bloom hasn't done enough for the farm? WTH?

 

My opinion on the farm is well known. Woo Sox uniform, and Red Sox uniform are two different things. What counts in Worcester doesn’t count in Boston. Prospects are on the farm, and players are in Boston, so when Cases puts on that Red Sox uniform then it matters what he does until then doesn’t matter to me, so at this point we don’t know how good Bloom has done. Good for the farm doesn’t mean it will translate to good for the Red Sox. Now who drafted Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy just to name a few did a great job.

[notin]

The proof of what a GM's budget is is what he spends. No GM in his right mind would not spend up to the budget.

 

I’m sure they’re all told to spend as little as possible, but many including presumably Bloom have that caveat “as long as we build a winner.” Or something to that effect…

[Old Red]

Well if the GM doesn’t stay within his financial limits, there are going to be issues at some point.

 

I think I agree with Merloni (who, unlike me, probably knows Bogaerts) that the Sox and Xander will eventually work something out. But right now, does anyone even know what Bogaerts wants? Are you saying if wants? If X wants 10 years $250 mill, should Bloom just get it done?

 

We’ve already gone over this many times over, and I have said many times how far I would go for Bogey.

[Bellhorn04]

I’m sure they’re all told to spend as little as possible, but many including presumably Bloom have that caveat “as long as we build a winner.” Or something to that effect…

 

You have to figure Bloom was told he had a (taxable) payroll of about $240 mill to play with this year.

[Old Red]

Why is it that what works in Tampa can not work in Boston?

 

You think the fans would put up with losing Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy in a few short years? Tampa doesn’t have much of a fan base, so it’s no big deal to them. Attendance is already down in Boston, and I believe would go down even more if that were to happen, and the same for NESN ratings. John Henry would not like that.

[notin]

My opinion on the farm is well known. Woo Sox uniform, and Red Sox uniform are two different things. What counts in Worcester doesn’t count in Boston. Prospects are on the farm, and players are in Boston, so when Cases puts on that Red Sox uniform then it matters what he does until then doesn’t matter to me, so at this point we don’t know how good Bloom has done. Good for the farm doesn’t mean it will translate to good for the Red Sox. Now who drafted Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy just to name a few did a great job.

 

Betts was drafted under Epstein.

 

Epstein also signed Bogaerts as IFA.

 

Cherington signed Devers as IFA…

[Bellhorn04]

You think the fans would put up with losing Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy in a few short years? Tampa doesn’t have much of a fan base, so it’s no big deal to them. Attendance is already down in Boston, and I believe would go down even more if that were to happen, and the same for NESN ratings. John Henry would not like that.

 

I do think the Sox FO is going to do something to appease the fans a bit.

[notin]

You think the fans would put up with losing Mookie, Bogey, and Raffy in a few short years? Tampa doesn’t have much of a fan base, so it’s no big deal to them. Attendance is already down in Boston, and I believe would go down even more if that were to happen, and the same for NESN ratings. John Henry would not like that.

 

Nothing would affect attendance and ratings more than winning.

 

If those are both down and the team still has Bogaerts and Devers, doesn’t that tell you stars are less important than winning?

 

No one is turning off the Sox solely because of Bogaerts’ stalled contract talks…

[mvp 78]

Betts was drafted under Epstein.

 

Epstein also signed Bogaerts as IFA.

 

Cherington signed Devers as IFA…

 

A guy in a monkey suit and a boob that delivered coffee. 2 nobodies!