Most overrated member of the 500 HR club?

[Northern Star]

I was coming into the thread to diss on Reggie Jackson - .262 batting average and clubhouse cancer, Mr October my ass - when I discovered that a microscope would be needed to detect Harmon Killebrew's batting average.

[Jasonbay44]

I really don’t think either of those guys are overrated, Jackson reached base 3800 times in his career and Killebrew was also an OBP machine. He reached base 3500+ times in his career.

[JDavis76]

All the PED guys:

 

bonds, Arod, sosa, mcgwire, palmeiro, manny, ortiz and sheffield.

[redsoxrules]

None, they are hall HOF except for the ones who took roids.

[redsoxrules]

Also, I'm sure a lot of players from the past were also juicing but they were never tested. Testing only began in 2003. So you can just imagine all the players prior to that who were juicing.

[JDavis76]

None, they are hall HOF except for the ones who took roids.

 

It has been stated that there are guys in the Hall who took roids, and then this year's induction just confirms it.

[Bellhorn04]

It has been stated that there are guys in the Hall who took roids, and then this year's induction just confirms it.

 

But it can't be stated as fact, it's all speculation.

[JDavis76]

But it can't be stated as fact, it's all speculation.

 

You're right, I should have stated PEDs instead of roids, my bad.

[Bellhorn04]

The 2003 testing thing was a muddled mess. And of course the PED's weren't even illegal then.

 

That's the only piece of factual evidence that ties Ortiz to PED's. There was nothing after that.

 

Would I swear that he never used anything? Hell no. But the factual evidence against him is slim at best.

[Bellhorn04]

I was coming into the thread to diss on Reggie Jackson - .262 batting average and clubhouse cancer, Mr October my ass - when I discovered that a microscope would be needed to detect Harmon Killebrew's batting average.

 

I'm not really sure what your case against Reggie is. I hated him when he was the Yankees, and he did have some clubhouse issues, but he was a hitter to be feared.

 

And his postseason numbers pretty much live up to the hype:

 

77 games

278/358/527 - 885 OPS

18 HR

48 RBI

[JDavis76]

The 2003 testing thing was a muddled mess. And of course the PED's weren't even illegal then.

 

That's the only piece of factual evidence that ties Ortiz to PED's. There was nothing after that.

 

Would I swear that he never used anything? Hell no. But the factual evidence against him is slim at best.

 

Regardless whether they were illegal or not is not the point. I included McGwire on the list, he never failed a test and, heck, he retired well before 2003.

[Bellhorn04]

Regardless whether they were illegal or not is not the point. I included McGwire on the list, he never failed a test and, heck, he retired well before 2003.

 

I think you have to look at each case individually. McGwire's use of andro was pretty well documented. And his vastly reduced size when he testified before Congress was pretty embarrassing.

[redsoxrules]

The fact that it wasn't illegal back then they should all be the HOF unless they caught juicing after they started testing and suspended people for it like Arod. Mcgwire and Sosa brought back the hype. The coverage that year was insane. It was great for baseball.

[JDavis76]

I think you have to look at each case individually. McGwire's use of andro was pretty well documented. And his vastly reduced size when he testified before Congress was pretty embarrassing.

 

And what of papi's greatly increased size? Have you seen his twins photos?

[Bellhorn04]

The fact that it wasn't illegal back then they should all be the HOF unless they caught juicing after they started testing and suspended people for it like Arod. Mcgwire and Sosa brought back the hype. The coverage that year was insane. It was great for baseball.

 

It was temporarily great for baseball.

 

Then Bonds bumped the record even higher.

 

And now the record is a joke.

[Bellhorn04]

And what of papi's greatly increased size? Have you seen his twins photos?

 

Look, I get it. I wouldn't bet he wasn't doing something. But again, the evidence just isn't there.

[JDavis76]

The fact that it wasn't illegal back then they should all be the HOF unless they caught juicing after they started testing and suspended people for it like Arod. Mcgwire and Sosa brought back the hype. The coverage that year was insane. It was great for baseball.

 

The thread subject is who is the most over rated. This has nothing to do with legal vs illegal.

 

Anyone who reached that club that was aided by the use of PEDs has an unfair advantage over those who didn't, thus they are over rated IMO.

[JDavis76]

Look, I get it. I wouldn't bet he wasn't doing something. But again, the evidence just isn't there.

 

Well, he failed a test.

 

And his claims about "getting to the bottom of it" ring about as hollow as OJ claiming he will find Nicole's killer.....

[redsoxrules]

The thread subject is who is the most over rated. This has nothing to do with legal vs illegal.

 

Anyone who reached that club that was aided by the use of PEDs has an unfair advantage over those who didn't, thus they are over rated IMO.

 

But the problem is you don't have a clue who actually reached the 500HR mark by being clean. In all honesty 90 of that list could have been juicing or doing something else ( corked bats etc )

[Jasonbay44]

But the problem is you don't have a clue who actually reached the 500HR mark by being clean. In all honesty 90 of that list could have been juicing or doing something else ( corked bats etc )

 

Plus some of the guys, regardless of steroids are not overrated. For example, Bonds was on a HOF trajectory with or without steroids and his numbers he put up were video game like.

[Bellhorn04]

Plus some of the guys, regardless of steroids are not overrated. For example, Bonds was on a HOF trajectory with or without steroids and his numbers he put up were video game like.

 

Yes, it's sad that he turned to the juice and tainted his great career like that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But the problem is you don't have a clue who actually reached the 500HR mark by being clean. In all honesty 90 of that list could have been juicing or doing something else ( corked bats etc )

 

ANYone who played in the roid era is suspicious. And that includes several players who made the HOF, with unbelievable numbers or unbelievable sustained longevity.

 

It's unfair, but that's just the way it is.

[notin]

I'm not really sure what your case against Reggie is. I hated him when he was the Yankees, and he did have some clubhouse issues, but he was a hitter to be feared.

 

And his postseason numbers pretty much live up to the hype:

 

77 games

278/358/527 - 885 OPS

18 HR

48 RBI

 

No one said he’s not a great player. But is any member of the 500 HR club more overrated than he is? Assuming any are overrated at all.

 

To me the most underrated is Jim Thome. Over 600 home runs. 8th all time. And he just feels like a complete afterthought…

[a700hitter]

Fred McGriff missed by 7. He hit 493.

[notin]

If Nelson Cruz can hit 43 more, maybe I’ll nominate him…

[Bellhorn04]

No one said he’s not a great player. But is any member of the 500 HR club more overrated than he is? Assuming any are overrated at all.

 

Northern Star said "Mr October my ass", so I was primarily responding to that.

[harmony]

I was coming into the thread to diss on Reggie Jackson - .262 batting average and clubhouse cancer, Mr October my ass - when I discovered that a microscope would be needed to detect Harmon Killebrew's batting average.

Harmon Killebrew had a career OPS+ of 143 and 573 home runs in 2,435 games while David Ortiz had a career OPS+ of 141 and 541 home runs in 2,408 games.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/killeha01.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml

 

Killebrew and Ortiz played in different eras.

[Bellhorn04]

Harmon Killebrew had a career OPS+ of 143 and 573 home runs in 2,435 games while David Ortiz had a career OPS+ of 141 and 541 home runs in 2,408 games.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/killeha01.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml

 

Killebrew and Ortiz played in different eras.

 

Killebrew was a great one.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Harmon Killebrew had a career OPS+ of 143 and 573 home runs in 2,435 games while David Ortiz had a career OPS+ of 141 and 541 home runs in 2,408 games.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/killeha01.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ortizda01.shtml

 

Killebrew and Ortiz played in different eras.

 

In the decade of the 1960s, Killebrew's .267 batting average was in the AL TOP TEN.

 

Ok, Harm was 10th in BA, but look at some other categories... From 1960 to 1969: Killebrew was 1st in home runs, RBIs, runs scored, bases on balls, slugging and total bases. He was 2nd in OBP and OPS to Mickey Mantle.

 

Killebrew's most expensive rookie card maxed out at around $1,700 on eBay this month. That's at least $12 1/2 million dollars less than Mantle's.

 

Maybe Harm is underrated.

[mvp 78]

Killer was a great ballplayer.

 

The worst 500 HR guy is Sammy Sosa. 58.6 WAR and can't even blame it on being a DH. Yuck.

 

128 OPS+?

 

C'mon man!