How much would you offer Devers?

[Old Red]

Betts missed 40 games last year with an assortment of injuries. He still had 23 HR's and 29 doubles and an .854 OPS.

 

He looks right back on form this year.

 

Stilll not worth a 12 year contract, and $360M to me. I don’t know why so many pine for Mookie on here for someone who didn’t want to stay in Boston. I know I’m certainly not.

[Bellhorn04]

Stilll not worth a 12 year contract, and $360M to me. I don’t know why so many pine for Mookie on here for someone who didn’t want to stay in Boston. I know I’m certainly not.

 

Maybe because most people consider him the second best player in the game and a sure Hall of Famer?

[Jasonbay44]

Where did anyone say RBI, and HR are all that matters, but isn’t that’s what the big contracts are payed for? Over analyzing always gets someone to their opinion that might not be someone else’s.

 

You claimed Renfroe was better than Mookie last year and literally said “ More HR, and RBI is good enough for me. I don’t use metrics except if they are on paper in the bathroom.”

[Old Red]

Maybe because most people consider him the second best player in the game and a sure Hall of Famer?

 

Who is most people? I haven’t seen anything that has said that.

[Jasonbay44]

Looking at Davis's numbers, he had a great run from ages 27-30, and then completely lost it.

 

For whatever reason, a lot of those three true outcome guys (K, BB, HR) have a couple huge years then just fall off. If Davis wasn’t hitting for power, he was useless. Renfroe looks like he could have very similar career.

 

Mookie on the other hand is one of the elite players of the game who can impact the game in many different ways. His defense and base running are some of the best the game has ever seen

[Jasonbay44]

Who is most people? I haven’t seen anything that has said that.

 

Google “best players in MLB” Mookie is one of first results….

[Bellhorn04]

Who is most people? I haven’t seen anything that has said that.

 

Don't know what else to say then.

[Old Red]

You claimed Renfroe was better than Mookie last year and literally said “ More HR, and RBI is good enough for me. I don’t use metrics except if they are on paper in the bathroom.”

 

Over analyzing again to fit your opinion. I NEVER said Renfroe was better than Mookie last year, but I said out hit meaning HR, and RBI. That is a fact.

[Old Red]

Google “best players in MLB” Mookie is one of first results….

 

The list I saw had him listed 4th, but I’d take Ohtani who was listed 5th over him any day. Different list has different rankings. I not disputing that Mookie is a great player, but just that he’s not worth that big a contract, and if he didn’t want to stay in Boston I’m glad he’s out of town.

[redsoxrules]

Maybe because most people consider him the second best player in the game and a sure Hall of Famer?

 

How is he the second best player in the game? Even your advance metrics can't make the case for that since that MVP season.

[Jasonbay44]

Over analyzing again to fit your opinion. I NEVER said Renfroe was better than Mookie last year, but I said out hit meaning HR, and RBI. That is a fact.

 

There is more to hitting than just RBI and homers. Mookie is better at every facet of the game than Renfroe

[Bellhorn04]

How is he the second best player in the game? Even your advance metrics can't make the case for that since that MVP season.

 

He has averaged 8.3 bWAR per 162 games.

 

Trout is at 9.6.

 

I don't think there's anyone else higher than 8.3, but I could be wrong.

 

Who do you think might be higher?

[Old Red]

There is more to hitting than just RBI and homers. Mookie is better at every facet of the game than Renfroe

 

How many times are you going to over analyze? The comment was that Renfroe outhit Mookie last year meaning HR, and RBI, which he did. Nowhere, and I repeat nowhere did I insinuate that Renfroe was better than Mookie, but that’s where you took it. Nobody said either that there wasn’t more to hitting than just HR, and RBI, but that’s what I was using.

[Old Red]

He has averaged 8.3 bWAR per 162 games.

 

Trout is at 9.6.

 

I don't think there's anyone else higher than 8.3, but I could be wrong.

 

Who do you think might be higher?

 

Toilet paper fodder again.

[redsoxrules]

He has averaged 8.3 bWAR per 162 games.

 

Trout is at 9.6.

 

I don't think there's anyone else higher than 8.3, but I could be wrong.

 

Who do you think might be higher?

 

I am talking since his mega deal. I don't care what he did prior as he is not that player anymore. What you saw in 2018 was a career year. That ain't happening again

[redsoxrules]

I'm sorry but unless you're in the MVP conversation just about every year you don't deserve a 350 MIL contract

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody said either that there wasn’t more to hitting than just HR, and RBI, but that’s what I was using.

 

Pretty hard to even understand what you're saying here.

[dgalehouse]

These discussions can get kind of silly. Renfroe is a better hitter than JBJ , but Jackie is a much better defender. Two different type players. Take your pick. I will say that if you praised Renfroe last year and you knock him now , you are being a bit hypocritical. As for Mookie , he is the total package. A future Hall of Famer. I don't think too many people would dispute that.

[Jasonbay44]

Pretty hard to even understand what you're saying here.

 

Yeah I don’t even know what to respond anymore. I give up

[Bellhorn04]

I am talking since his mega deal. I don't care what he did prior as he is not that player anymore. What you saw in 2018 was a career year. That ain't happening again

 

Players always get contracts based on what they've done. That's just how it works.

[Old Red]

Pretty hard to even understand what you're saying here.

 

That Renfroe had more RBI, and HR than Mookie last year, and nothing more, and nothing less. Other people took it to other areas sticking up for Mookie.

[moonslav59]

You claimed Renfroe was better than Mookie last year and literally said “ More HR, and RBI is good enough for me. I don’t use metrics except if they are on paper in the bathroom.”

 

Watch him "change the question," now.

[Old Red]

Watch him "change the question," now.

 

Moon there is no change need. I said Renfroe out hit Mooke last year in HR, and RBI. That as a fact. Other people has taken it to other places, so you might as well chirp in as well.

[Old Red]

These discussions can get kind of silly. Renfroe is a better hitter than JBJ , but Jackie is a much better defender. Two different type players. Take your pick. I will say that if you praised Renfroe last year and you knock him now , you are being a bit hypocritical. As for Mookie , he is the total package. A future Hall of Famer. I don't think too many people would dispute that.

 

Another HR from Mookie today #10, which is helping my HR derby team. Been on fire lately.

[notin]

That Renfroe had more RBI, and HR than Mookie last year, and nothing more, and nothing less. Other people took it to other areas sticking up for Mookie.

 

In post 102, you said Renfroe outhit Mookie. Not outhomered Mookie or had more RBIs. Outhit. Your word. This despite Mookie having a higher BA, OBP, OPS, and, well, better just about everything.

 

And no one cares if you don’t like OPS. It tells a better story of a hitter than RBIs…

[notin]

Moon there is no change need. I said Renfroe out hit Mooke last year in HR, and RBI. That as a fact. Other people has taken it to other places, so you might as well chirp in as well.

 

HR and RBI were added later. After you were questioned on it…

[Bellhorn04]

That Renfroe had more RBI, and HR than Mookie last year, and nothing more, and nothing less. Other people took it to other areas sticking up for Mookie.

 

No, you said more. You said "more HR, and RBI is good enough for me." It's the "good enough for me" part that has caused the arguments.

[Old Red]

No, you said more. You said "more HR, and RBI is good enough for me." It's the "good enough for me" part that has caused the arguments.

 

It was good enough for me last year, so if that caused a commotion then so be it. Just a different opinion that people don’t like.

[Old Red]

In post 102, you said Renfroe outhit Mookie. Not outhomered Mookie or had more RBIs. Outhit. Your word. This despite Mookie having a higher BA, OBP, OPS, and, well, better just about everything.

 

And no one cares if you don’t like OPS. It tells a better story of a hitter than RBIs…

 

Yes I know I should have clarified, because the word police will be out in force for clarification. Where did I say I don’t like OPS? I don’t care if you don’t like the fact that I’m not a analytics nerd either. You judge things your way, and I’ll do mine much to your displeasure. I love it when a plan comes together. I aim to please.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

Yes I know I should have clarified, because the word police will be out in force for clarification. Where did I say I don’t like OPS? I don’t care if you don’t like the fact that I’m not a analytics nerd either. You judge things your way, and I’ll do mine much to your displeasure. I love it when a plan comes together.

 

You've said that you don't care about OPS.