Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

Players reinstated from the Military List are given 15 days (not games, days) to get in shape in the minors. So Song gets 15 days to get in shape.

 

So that would make his first day on the active list in mid-April. Which doesn't mean he'd be appearing in any games right away.

[moonslav59]

So that would make his first day on the active list in mid-April. Which doesn't mean he'd be appearing in any games right away.

 

Does this also mean his 26 man roster requirement extends 15 days into 2024, like IL stints do?

[Bellhorn04]

I honestly believe that anyone who knows much about baseball, would think a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in 3 years and has a slight chance, at best, of even being eligible to pitch in 2023 should be chosen to take up a slot on the 40. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe anyone would have said yes, back then.

 

I would have said yes to Song over Ort, I assure you, and I'm pretty sure a poll question here on that would have gone in Song's favor.

[Bellhorn04]

Does this also mean his 26 man roster requirement extends 15 days into 2024, like IL stints do?

 

That's for notin.

[Bellhorn04]

I will make one prediction: if Song can get his fastball over 90 between now and April, Dave Dombrowski will do everything in his power to keep him.

[Old Red]

I would have said yes to Song over Ort, I assure you, and I'm pretty sure a poll question here on that would have gone in Song's favor.

 

I agree totally. Ort is just one of these guys who hangs around the minor leagues, and that’s all he is, and will ever be, so Song definitely over Ort, and it’s not even close to me.

[moonslav59]

I would have said yes to Song over Ort, I assure you, and I'm pretty sure a poll question here on that would have gone in Song's favor.

 

I think almost everyone would have taken TWard, first, over Ort, Song, Politi, Hamilton and probably Brasier, too. (Wallace and others were mentioned, a lot, and again, way more than Song was.)

 

Who comes second is a pretty big toss-up. Pilit was selected before Song, but that doesn't mean much.

 

My guess is, the board consensus might have been:

 

1. TWard

2. Politi or Wallace

4. Wikelman, Paulino or maybe Hamilton

6/7. Song

9. Brasier

10. Ort

 

Again, entirely speculation, on my behalf, but this is not my list. This is what I think the board consensus would have been, had everyone known all the ins and outs.

 

I still can't find one article that mentions Song as even a long shot protectee. Everyone was assuming his ineligibility and or 3 years of no pitching was a disqualifier for all GMs.

 

Guys like Wikelman and paulino probably have a better chance of making the bigs than Song, but they are not taken due to how far away from the bigs they are. Can anyone really think Song is "closer" to ML ready than they are?

 

[moonslav59]

I will make one prediction: if Song can get his fastball over 90 between now and April, Dave Dombrowski will do everything in his power to keep him.

 

Most likely trade a prospect to the Sox?

[moonslav59]

I agree totally. Ort is just one of these guys who hangs around the minor leagues, and that’s all he is, and will ever be, so Song definitely over Ort, and it’s not even close to me.

 

Everyone, here would take an eligible Song over Ort. There has never been any love for Ort.

 

TWard should have been protected over Ort and Politi over Brasier or Hamilton. The real question might be, and this is just how I see it: Song vs Hamilton.

 

In hindsight, I'd take Song, but back in November when it looked like he was ineligible and would remain so, I'd have taken Hamilton, Wallace and maybe even Wikelman (who was not selected) over Song.

 

The whole military list exclusion to the 40 man roster thing is a bit confusing.

[notin]

So that would make his first day on the active list in mid-April. Which doesn't mean he'd be appearing in any games right away.

 

What’s your point? That Philly can bury him by giving him EVEN MORE INACTIVITY?!?!?

 

Song NEEDS to face live hitters regularly if he is ever going to live up to any potential. Why do you repeatedly keep suggesting ways for Philly to keep him that circumvent that incredibly obvious fact?

[Old Red]

Everyone, here would take an eligible Song over Ort. There has never been any love for Ort.

 

TWard should have been protected over Ort and Politi over Brasier or Hamilton. The real question might be, and this is just how I see it: Song vs Hamilton.

 

In hindsight, I'd take Song, but back in November when it looked like he was ineligible and would remain so, I'd have taken Hamilton, Wallace and maybe even Wikelman (who was not selected) over Song.

 

The whole military list exclusion to the 40 man roster thing is a bit confusing.

When Song was drafted back in 2019 the Red Sox knew it could, and would be a long time, before he would get the chance to appear in a Red Sox uniform. The Red Sox waited this long so they should have just finished the job.

[notin]

I will make one prediction: if Song can get his fastball over 90 between now and April, Dave Dombrowski will do everything in his power to keep him.

 

So you’re saying he will trade a prospect to Boston so that Song can be optioned to the minors and developed properly? Or do you think he will play Injured List games and do everything possible to keep Song active without letting him actually pitch solely to reach the magical 90 day mark and then bury him on the Injured List?

[notin]

When Song was drafted back in 2019 the Red Sox knew it could, and would be a long time, before he would get the chance to appear in a Red Sox uniform. The Red Sox waited this long so they should have just finished the job.

 

The Sox had plenty of other players ahead of Song worth protecting.

 

Not sure why so many think Song is some freakish magical player whose abilities transcend time and he can just walk on to any field anywhere anytime and flat out dominate.

 

The Sox left several pitchers exposed who are certainly better than Song right now. Wikelman, Wallace and Ryan Fernandez, for example…

[Old Red]

The Sox had plenty of other players ahead of Song worth protecting.

 

Not sure why so many think Song is some freakish magical player whose abilities transcend time and he can just walk on to any field anywhere anytime and flat out dominate.

 

The Sox left several pitchers exposed who are certainly better than Song right now. Wikelman, Wallace and Ryan Fernandez, for example…

The Red Sox stole Whitlock from the Yankees, and my prediction is that when all is said, and done the final outcome will be that the Phillies, and DD stole one from the Red Sox, and Bloom.

[notin]

The Red Sox stole Whitlock from the Yankees, and my prediction is that when all is said, and done the final outcome will be that the Phillies, and DD stole one from the Red Sox, and Bloom.

 

Ok.

 

 

My prediction is DD will trade for Song (re: pay for, aka not steal), because I actually don’t think DD is stupid enough to try and keep Song any other way…

[moonslav59]

What’s your point? That Philly can bury him by giving him EVEN MORE INACTIVITY?!?!?

 

Song NEEDS to face live hitters regularly if he is ever going to live up to any potential. Why do you repeatedly keep suggesting ways for Philly to keep him that circumvent that incredibly obvious fact?

 

I think he can be rehabbing (pitching) in the minors those 15 days, so it's not "inactivity."

 

It's 3 years of minor league progressions compacted into 15 days.

[dgalehouse]

The odds are that Song, like so many prospects, will never reach stardom. I am sure that Dombrowski, who has a lot of experience and success, realizes that. But he obviously is familiar with Song and thinks this is worth a shot. He has very little to lose in the whole thing. It certainly seems like it is worth a shot from the Phillies' perspective.

[moonslav59]

When Song was drafted back in 2019 the Red Sox knew it could, and would be a long time, before he would get the chance to appear in a Red Sox uniform. The Red Sox waited this long so they should have just finished the job.

 

I don't disagree. I have been high on Song for a long time.

 

That being said, I never even mentioned him last fall as a possible protectee, because GMs just don't select players that are not at least near ML ready.

 

DD pulled a fast one, and if it works, it will be a nice coup for him and the Phillies- not quite like the Red Auerbach steal of Larry Bird by drafting him a year early.

 

I will say, it will be very difficult for the Phillies to keep a raw player like Song on the 26 man roster all year, as they fight for a playoff slot and possible ring contention. They will likely trade him or give the Sox something, so they can keep him on the 40 not 26.

[moonslav59]

The odds are that Song, like so many prospects, will never reach stardom. I am sure that Dombrowski, who has a lot of experience and success, realizes that. But he obviously is familiar with Song and thinks this is worth a shot. He has very little to lose in the whole thing. It certainly seems like it is worth a shot from the Phillies' perspective.

 

There is a quote from DD that says the Sox felt Song was the best pitcher in the 2019 draft, so obviously he liked him, then, a lot.

 

He's hoping he catches lightning in a bottle. He has a tough road ahead of him trying to make and win the playoffs with a strong and deep 26 man roster while getting this kid enough time to pitch actual and meaningful innings. I don't think pitching batting practice and simulation games is the same, even if it might help that he'll be facing actual major league hitters in practice.

[moonslav59]

Ok.

 

 

My prediction is DD will trade for Song (re: pay for, aka not steal), because I actually don’t think DD is stupid enough to try and keep Song any other way…

 

Well, if he gives up a far-away prospect that amounts to squat and Song goes on to greatness, it could still end up being rightly called a steal.

[Bellhorn04]

He's hoping he catches lightning in a bottle. He has a tough road ahead of him trying to make and win the playoffs with a strong and deep 26 man roster while getting this kid enough time to pitch actual and meaningful innings. I don't think pitching batting practice and simulation games is the same, even if it might help that he'll be facing actual major league hitters in practice.

 

There are plenty of meaningless innings required to be pitched too...

 

With Philly's offense, they'll be sure to have some blowouts.

[moonslav59]

There are plenty of meaningless innings required to be pitched too...

 

With Philly's offense, they'll be sure to have some blowouts.

 

Maybe, they make it work, but then why didn't some team not in the playoff hunt select Wikelman or the like from another team?

 

At least he is ready to pitch, right now.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, if he gives up a far-away prospect that amounts to squat and Song goes on to greatness, it could still end up being rightly called a steal.

 

And how the heck does that work, I mean, what or who determines if what the Phillies offer in trade is acceptable and the trade has to go through?

 

This is an education in some arcane rules, if nothing else...

[moonslav59]

And how the heck does that work, I mean, what or who determines if what the Phillies offer in trade is acceptable and the trade has to go through?

 

This is an education in some arcane rules, if nothing else...

 

The Sox and Phillies would need to agree on the trade, and my guess is the return would be a single A prospect with some promise.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox and Phillies would need to agree on the trade, and my guess is the return would be a single A prospect with some promise.

 

Right, but my devious mind automatically goes to: "What if the Red Sox decide to be jerks about it and say they want more than that?" Is there a mechanism in place to prevent this?

[notin]

Well, if he gives up a far-away prospect that amounts to squat and Song goes on to greatness, it could still end up being rightly called a steal.

 

And what do you call it if the prospect goes on to greatness and Song flames out after a couple dozen innings?

[notin]

Right, but my devious mind automatically goes to: "What if the Red Sox decide to be jerks about it and say they want more than that?" Is there a mechanism in place to prevent this?

 

DD can try to hold Song all year, which will always be the stupider option.

 

And you’re showing bias. Why are the Sox the jerks for holding out? If Song is so good he can just walk to MLB after his whopping 17 A ball IP 3 years ago, shouldn’t the Sox get something good for him?

Edited February 26, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

Right, but my devious mind automatically goes to: "What if the Red Sox decide to be jerks about it and say they want more than that?" Is there a mechanism in place to prevent this?

 

Yes, the Phillies say no, and trade him to a team that can afford to hide him on their 26 or place im on waivers.

 

The Sox hold very little leverage, unless Philly really wants Song on the 40 not the 26. Then we hold some power but not all of it.

[moonslav59]

And what do you call it if the prospect goes on to greatness and Song flames out after a couple dozen innings?

 

A steal by Bloom, of course.

 

My point was, a "steal" could still occur.

[Bellhorn04]

DD can try to hold Song all year, which will always be the stupider option.

 

And you’re showing bias. Why are the Sox the jerks for holding out? If Song is so good he can just walk to MLB after his whopping 17 A ball IP 3 years ago, shouldn’t the Sox get something good for him?

 

Yeah, right, I'm showing bias with a hypothetical question asked because I'm interested in how the rules work.