Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

"Expected" back. Can't go on "expectations." Gotta go on what you actually know. Being below .500. Knowing your team has a bunch of guys injured and unproductive.

 

I know, but it's baseball. A lot of unpredictable stuff happens.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I know, but it's baseball. A lot of unpredictable stuff happens.

 

But what was so predictable in '22 was at the end of a great June, with a killer sked coming in July... the Sox needed major league reinforcements -- not minor league prayers -- a month before the deadline.

 

And this isn't hindsight, because we all read the schedule at the time and knew what was coming.

[Bellhorn04]

But what was so predictable in '22 was at the end of a great June, with a killer sked coming in July... the Sox needed major league reinforcements -- not minor league prayers -- a month before the deadline.

 

And this isn't hindsight, because we all read the schedule at the time and knew what was coming.

 

That's probably a valid viewpoint too, but if they traded prospects for reinforcements, they still would have missed the playoffs, and the farm would be depleted to boot.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That's probably a valid viewpoint too, but if they traded prospects for reinforcements, they still would have missed the playoffs, and the farm would be depleted to boot.

 

Right. And while the timing of injuries may be unpredictable, some are more inevitable, especially considering the age and history of individuals.

 

Franchises with foresight and the resources to stockpile sufficient depth are better prepared than those that wait until the last minute at the trade deadline... and then change direction in the final 30 seconds.

[Bobe2]

They should have at least traded the guys on expiring contracts like JD, Eovaldi, Wacha, Hill, etc. There was no reason to keep them around. They were 50-52 on July 30th. It was a sinking ship. After the 3-13 stretch from 7-3 to 7-24 was when everyone should have just been unloaded.

 

I think your missing one important thing here, you need a trade partner someone to trade with who wants a DH having a bad year or pitchers having health problems or on the il or just old, teams are trying to get better not take our problems off our hands, Bloom had very little talent to offer because we had very little talent left to offer.

[mvp 78]

I know, but it's baseball. A lot of unpredictable stuff happens.

 

Playoff Race on 7/30/22:

Yankees ALE

MIN ALC

HOU ALW

TOR WC1

SEA WC2

TBR WC3

 

Did that change drastically by 9/30/22? Was it so "unpredictable" as you say?

[Old Red]

"Expected" back. Can't go on "expectations." Gotta go on what you actually know. Being below .500. Knowing your team has a bunch of guys injured and unproductive.

 

So what you are saying is that Bloom messed up?

[mvp 78]

I think your missing one important thing here, you need a trade partner someone to trade with who wants a DH having a bad year or pitchers having health problems or on the il or just old, teams are trying to get better not take our problems off our hands, Bloom had very little talent to offer because we had very little talent left to offer.

 

Bloom could have traded JD and Eovaldi and their full contracts for low level prospects at the very least. They were able to trade Vaz for two prospects and the Astros only wanted him as a backup catcher. I think some team would have wanted JD for at least a bench bat or Eovaldi as a 5th starter.

[mvp 78]

So what you are saying is that Bloom messed up?

 

I've said as much several times since the Mookie trade.

[Bobe2]

Bloom could have traded JD and Eovaldi and their full contracts for low level prospects at the very least. They were able to trade Vaz for two prospects and the Astros only wanted him as a backup catcher. I think some team would have wanted JD for at least a bench bat or Eovaldi as a 5th starter.

 

Vazquez was healthy and having a good year, so other teams would naturally want him. The others really did nothing for us so I guess the rest of the league made a wise choice by not dealing with us, I believe everyone was on the block just no takers at the price

[Bobe2]

I've said as much several times since the Mookie trade.

 

It’s looking more and more like you can add the Bogaerts and Devers extensions to that list. We will know in a few days

[Old Red]

Bloom could have traded JD and Eovaldi and their full contracts for low level prospects at the very least. They were able to trade Vaz for two prospects and the Astros only wanted him as a backup catcher. I think some team would have wanted JD for at least a bench bat or Eovaldi as a 5th starter.

 

The Astros wanted Vaz even though it was just for a backup, which I believe is true, but I’m not sure there was anybody who really wanted JD, or Evol. As much as I have criticized Bloom I don’t believe he would held on to the two of them if he could have gotten a little something for them even though I keep saying he seemed confused looking for that 3rd option in the fork in the road at the trade deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

Playoff Race on 7/30/22:

Yankees ALE

MIN ALC

HOU ALW

TOR WC1

SEA WC2

TBR WC3

 

Did that change drastically by 9/30/22? Was it so "unpredictable" as you say?

 

Part of the unpredictability is that sometimes the predictable happens.

[notin]

But what was so predictable in '22 was at the end of a great June, with a killer sked coming in July... the Sox needed major league reinforcements -- not minor league prayers -- a month before the deadline.

 

And this isn't hindsight, because we all read the schedule at the time and knew what was coming.

 

I think we also underestimated that June schedule.

 

The Sox played 8 series in Iune, but 4 of them are against teams that made the postseason. And the Sox did go 8-4 in those series. They didn’t just play Oakland for a month…

[mvp 78]

Part of the unpredictability is that sometimes the predictable happens.

 

[Old Red]

I think we also underestimated that June schedule.

 

The Sox played 8 series in Iune, but 4 of them are against teams that made the postseason. And the Sox did go 8-4 in those series. They didn’t just play Oakland for a month…

The Red Sox had 20 wins in June, and 10 of those wins came against Oak, Calf, and Seattle. Oakland sucked, Calf was going through something like a 15 game losing streak, and Seattle was a below a 500 ball club at that time, so I guess it depends how you want to analyze this.

[Bellhorn04]

 

True though. It's the beauty of sport.

[Bobe2]

Three thoughts

You can’t build a World Series champion using the waver wire as your means for acquiring players

No teams farm system has ever won a World Series

If you continually trade quality mlb ball players for prospects you eventually will lose badly

[moonslav59]

GM's can't really go on "feel". They have to pay more attention to things like being 3 games out of the playoffs with 2 months to go and having a bunch of guys expected back from the IL etc.

 

I understand why Bloom did (not) do what he should have, and the returning players was a solid reason not to, but IMO, we were toast in mid July.

[mvp 78]

Three thoughts

You can’t build a World Series champion using the waver wire as your means for acquiring players

No teams farm system has ever won a World Series

If you continually trade quality mlb ball players for prospects you eventually will lose badly

 

Why do the Rays keep getting the better end of their trades?

[Bobe2]

Why do the Rays keep getting the better end of their trades?

 

They have a better man making them

[Bellhorn04]

No teams farm system has ever won a World Series

 

Not really sure what this means.

 

You could make a pretty strong argument that the 2018 Red Sox won the World Series because of their farm system. Partly from guys who came out of the system like Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Bogaerts, Devers, partly from guys that DD traded for Sale, Kimbrel, Eovaldi, Pearce.

[moonslav59]

That's probably a valid viewpoint too, but if they traded prospects for reinforcements, they still would have missed the playoffs, and the farm would be depleted to boot.

 

I never like the "playing it halfway" approach, but it seems like we end up doing just that, more often than I like.

 

I'd have felt a lot better about our future had we just unloaded enough to reset.

[moonslav59]

Not really sure what this means.

 

You could make a pretty strong argument that the 2018 Red Sox won the World Series because of their farm system. Partly from guys who came out of the system like Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Bogaerts, Devers, partly from guys that DD traded for Sale, Kimbrel, Eovaldi, Pearce.

 

It is very clear, farm teams win many championships.

 

The Astros may be the next example.

[mvp 78]

Not really sure what this means.

 

You could make a pretty strong argument that the 2018 Red Sox won the World Series because of their farm system. Partly from guys who came out of the system like Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Bogaerts, Devers, partly from guys that DD traded for Sale, Kimbrel, Eovaldi, Pearce.

 

I think they were trying to say you can't win a World Series by calling up your farm, not that your farm will develop you into a WS contender.

[Bobe2]

Not really sure what this means.

 

You could make a pretty strong argument that the 2018 Red Sox won the World Series because of their farm system. Partly from guys who came out of the system like Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Bogaerts, Devers, partly from guys that DD traded for Sale, Kimbrel, Eovaldi, Pearce.

 

Just making a point that no matter how good your farm system is, it’s the big league team that’s got to play the games

[Bellhorn04]

I never like the "playing it halfway" approach, but it seems like we end up doing just that, more often than I like.

 

I'd have felt a lot better about our future had we just unloaded enough to reset.

 

The resetting isn't really that big of a deal in itself. Like I said before, it just means they have to reset in 2024 and 2027 instead of 2025 and 2028.

 

A plan to spend/spend/reset isn't a great plan anyway, arguably.

[Bellhorn04]

Just making a point that no matter how good your farm system is, it’s the big league team that’s got to play the games

 

That's understood, but you have to look after the future as well as the present, or the present will really start to suck.

[Bobe2]

Not really sure what this means.

 

You could make a pretty strong argument that the 2018 Red Sox won the World Series because of their farm system. Partly from guys who came out of the system like Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Bogaerts, Devers, partly from guys that DD traded for Sale, Kimbrel, Eovaldi, Pearce.

 

Example the Pittsburg pirates have a really good farm system and a not so good team

[moonslav59]

The resetting isn't really that big of a deal in itself. Like I said before, it just means they have to reset in 2024 and 2027 instead of 2025 and 2028.

 

A plan to spend/spend/reset isn't a great plan anyway, arguably.

 

I think it matters plenty.

 

You reset in years you are pretty sure you need a miracle to win it all- like 2022.

 

Instead of knowing we don't have to reset until 2025, instead we have to do so in '23 or '24. To me, with the influx of prospects joining the big club, tis year and next, the chances of winning it all looked brighter for '23 and '24 than '22.

 

Now, if the plan was to wait until 2024 to focus hard on a ring, then resetting in 2023 works, too, but I still think our chances looked brighter for 2023 than 2022 at this past deadline.

 

We could have traded JD with $2M and reset, or Nate with about $1M, instead.

 

I get the point about still thinking we could win. Had everyone comeback strong and we had traded JD only to miss the playoffs by 1 game, we might have been pissed, assuming JD hit well the last 2 months. (Lots of ifs.)