Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Most of us agree the 2020 season was lost from the start, and the Betts trade was forced on Bloom. One can argue about my choice of starting points, but to me the massive budget cuts after 2019 should not be counted against Bloom's winter signings, that year. I'm starting from the 2020 deadline:

 

Major Moves (may not have seemed major, at the time):

Cordero, Winckowski, L de la Rosa, F Valdez & G Gambrell for Beni

Renfroe signed for $3.1M/1 (2 arbs left)

Kike signed for $14M/2

Richards signed for $10M/1

Barnes extended for $18.8M/2

Whitlock drafted Rule 5 and extended $18.8M/4

Schreiber selected off waivers

JBJ, Bineles & Hamilton for Renfroe

Paxton signed for $10M/1 w option

Wacha signed for $7M

Story signed for $140M/6

 

Moderate Moves:

Pivetta & Seabold for Workman & Hembree

Arroyo acquired off waivers

R Hernandez for Springs & Mazza

Marwin Gonzalez signed for $3M/1

Ottavino & German acquired in trade.

M Perez signed for $5M/1

Rich Hill signed for $5M/1

Diekman signed for $8M/2

McGuire for Diekman

Strahm signed for $3M/1

Refsnyder signed as minor league FA

Hosmer + cash, Ferguson & Rosier for Groome

E Valdez & W Abreu for Vazquez

 

Minor Moves that are noteworthy:

Moreland for J Rosario & H Potts

Pillar for J Wallace

Sawamura signed $3M/2

Andriese signed for $2.1M/1

Robles for Alex Scherff (signed for $2.3M/1)

Austin Davis for Chavis (signed for $720K)

Y Rios acquired for cash

K Ort Minor League Rule 5 draftee

T Pham for Northcut

Z Kelly signed as minor league FA

Danish signed as minor league FA

 

I'd like to see how those who feel Bloom has done a terrible job with his choices would grade these moves.

 

Here's mine:

 

Red= Good

Blue= Bad

Black= middle or jury still out

 

Cordero, Winckowski, L de la Rosa, F Valdez & G Gambrell for Beni

Renfroe signed for $3.1M/1 (2 arbs left)

Kike signed for $14M/2

Richards signed for $10M/1

Barnes extended for $18.8M/2- jury may still be out, but he'd have to be great in '23.

Whitlock drafted Rule 5 and extended $18.8M/4

Schreiber selected off waivers

JBJ, Bineles & Hamilton for Renfroe

Paxton signed for $10M/1 w option

Wacha signed for $7M

Story signed for $140M/6

 

Moderate Moves:

Pivetta & Seabold for Workman & Hembree

Arroyo acquired off waivers

R Hernandez for Springs & Mazza I guess RHern could surprise us, but...

Marwin Gonzalez signed for $3M/1

Ottavino & German acquired in trade.

M Perez signed for $5M/1

Rich Hill signed for $5M/1 worth $5M

Diekman signed for $8M/2

McGuire for Diekman

Strahm signed for $3M/1

Refsnyder signed as minor league FA

Hosmer + cash, Ferguson & Rosier for Groome

E Valdez & W Abreu for Vazquez

 

Minor Moves that are noteworthy:

Moreland for J Rosario & H Potts

Pillar for J Wallace

Sawamura signed $3M/2

Andriese signed for $2.1M/1

Robles for Alex Scherff (signed for $2.3M/1)

Austin Davis for Chavis (signed for $720K)

Y Rios acquired for cash

K Ort Minor League Rule 5 draftee

T Pham for Northcut

Z Kelly signed as minor league FA

Danish signed as minor league FA

 

 

 

[Old Red]

I know what Red is saying. I know what notin is saying.

 

I actually disagree with notin that the closer role is a "sure bet" to be Houck's on opening day. I was just correcting what I feel was Red's misinterpretation of notin's statement.

 

As usual your feeling is wrong. AGAIN! Do I have to bring up the Cora issue again? Don’t try to interpret someone else’s interpretation when it didn’t need it it, and be wrong again, and again. Wash, rinse repeat. Say goodnight Dick.

[mvp 78]

Here is the thing. It doesn’t matter what you or I would do, or if you or I like or don’t like Houck in that role. Somebody in the Sox organization does. They gave him a chance. He really did nothing to ruin it. Safe bet that if he’s healthy, it’s his job to lose.

 

No prediction on if he loses it…

 

BABIP luck.

 

Houck 2022

Low Leverage: 2.34 FIP

Medium Leverage: 3.86 FIP

High Leverage: 4.40 FIP (Whitlock had a 2.77 FIP for High Leverage)

[mvp 78]

Moon and Notin are not the same poster. They are more like a tag team. " The Legion of Bloom ", heel tag team champions.

 

Since we are talking wrestling, if you check the user join date, there is a faction of April 2016 posters. They are never to be trusted fully. Instead of cool Outsiders like Hall and Nash, they are more like the 2001 WCW Invasion of WWF (now WWE).

[moonslav59]

As usual your feeling is wrong. AGAIN! Do I have to bring up the Cora issue again? Don’t try to interpret someone else’s interpretation when it didn’t need it it, and be wrong again, and again. Wash, rinse repeat. Say goodnight Dick.

 

So, notin sounded like he thought Houck would be a sure bet good closer, when he added "No prediction on if he loses it…?"

 

I'm not sure how anyone can interpret that as a yes.

 

Again, I think notin is wrong to say Houck will certainly be the closer, but that is all he said.

[moonslav59]

BABIP luck.

 

Houck 2022

Low Leverage: 2.34 FIP

Medium Leverage: 3.86 FIP

High Leverage: 4.40 FIP (Whitlock had a 2.77 FIP for High Leverage)

 

One reason I am not so sure Houck has been annointed the closer, already.

 

We may also go with 2 "relief aces" and mix and match who pitches in the traditional closer, ninth inning role.

[mvp 78]

One reason I am not so sure Houck has been annointed the closer, already.

 

We may also go with 2 "relief aces" and mix and match who pitches in the traditional closer, ninth inning role.

 

Ewwww...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd like to see how those who feel Bloom has done a terrible job with his choices would grade these moves.

 

Here's mine:

 

Red= Good

Blue= Bad

Black= middle or jury still out

 

Cordero, Winckowski, L de la Rosa, F Valdez & G Gambrell for Beni

Renfroe signed for $3.1M/1 (2 arbs left)

Kike signed for $14M/2

Richards signed for $10M/1

Barnes extended for $18.8M/2- jury may still be out, but he'd have to be great in '23.

Whitlock drafted Rule 5 and extended $18.8M/4

Schreiber selected off waivers

JBJ, Bineles & Hamilton for Renfroe

Paxton signed for $10M/1 w option

Wacha signed for $7M

Story signed for $140M/6

 

Moderate Moves:

Pivetta & Seabold for Workman & Hembree

Arroyo acquired off waivers

R Hernandez for Springs & Mazza I guess RHern could surprise us, but...

Marwin Gonzalez signed for $3M/1

Ottavino & German acquired in trade.

M Perez signed for $5M/1

Rich Hill signed for $5M/1 worth $5M

Diekman signed for $8M/2

McGuire for Diekman

Strahm signed for $3M/1

Refsnyder signed as minor league FA

Hosmer + cash, Ferguson & Rosier for Groome

E Valdez & W Abreu for Vazquez

 

Minor Moves that are noteworthy:

Moreland for J Rosario & H Potts

Pillar for J Wallace

Sawamura signed $3M/2

Andriese signed for $2.1M/1

Robles for Alex Scherff (signed for $2.3M/1)

Austin Davis for Chavis (signed for $720K)

Y Rios acquired for cash

K Ort Minor League Rule 5 draftee

T Pham for Northcut

Z Kelly signed as minor league FA

Danish signed as minor league FA

 

 

 

 

Very thorough, Moon. The colors I'd change are the Beni trade to blue; Cordero sucks as a big leaguer and Winck's ceiling is mediocrity. But I'd change the Renfroe trade to black, since Hamilton and/or Binelas have progressed to Double A and may someday contribute speed and power in the majors.

 

Pham and Kelly were ok, but didn't really lend anything good to the trudge towards last place. Maybe they're pink...

 

As for Robles, I get there was good and bad, but more of the latter; maybe blend the blue and red to make purple, as in purple hearts for all the fans whose eyes were wounded watching way too much of him.

[Old Red]

One reason I am not so sure Houck has been annointed the closer, already.

 

We may also go with 2 "relief aces" and mix and match who pitches in the traditional closer, ninth inning role.

 

A reliable lock down closer is the way to go if you want to have a good BP. If not then your way would be the way to go.Ewwww… is right.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Old Red

[notin]

I suggested this last offseason because he was the guy with the most trade value. He's a player that may do better with a change of scenery too.

 

You suggested trading everyone last of season…

[moonslav59]

A reliable lock down closer is the way to go if you want to have a good BP. If not then your way would be the way to go.Ewwww… is right.

 

Maybe- emphasis on maybe- Houck can be a reliable lockdown closer, but he has not proved he can, just yet.

 

He may very well be handed the job on day one, though, but it is not a "sure bet," IMO.

 

I like Whitlock better than Houck for the closer role, but I also think Whitlock would make a better starter, so I think that's what he'll be in 2023.

[notin]

As usual your feeling is wrong. AGAIN! Do I have to bring up the Cora issue again? Don’t try to interpret someone else’s interpretation when it didn’t need it it, and be wrong again, and again. Wash, rinse repeat. Say goodnight Dick.

 

Oh oh!

 

You tried to clarify Old Red! He hates that!

 

Of course he has no issue making straw man arguments out of other people’s opinions…

[moonslav59]

You suggested trading everyone last of season…

 

Covering all the bases, but you can't trust any poster who started in 2008.

[notin]

So, notin sounded like he thought Houck would be a sure bet good closer, when he added "No prediction on if he loses it…?"

 

I'm not sure how anyone can interpret that as a yes.

 

Again, I think notin is wrong to say Houck will certainly be the closer, but that is all he said.

 

I’m sticking with it.

 

If they try to upgrade, I’m certainly fine with that…

[Old Red]

Maybe- emphasis on maybe- Houck can be a reliable lockdown closer, but he has not proved he can, just yet.

 

He may very well be handed the job on day one, though, but it is not a "sure bet," IMO.

 

I like Whitlock better than Houck for the closer role, but I also think Whitlock would make a better starter, so I think that's what he'll be in 2023.

I don’t think Houck can be a reliable anything, and I’ve been saying that for 2 years now. He has good flashes, but not enough to be reliable. I keep saying a reliable closer is not on the Red Sox roster at the moment.

[Old Red]

Great article today by Dan Secatore SB Nation on the Bloom vs DD debate. Of course not as good as what’s on here.

[moonslav59]

I’m sticking with it.

 

If they try to upgrade, I’m certainly fine with that…

 

I wouldn't be surprised, either way, especially when you factor in the team's reluctance to spend big on RP'ers. I just don't think it's a "sure bet" he is already slotted as our closer.

[moonslav59]

I don’t think Houck can be a reliable anything, and I’ve been saying that for 2 years now. He has good flashes, but not enough to be reliable. I keep saying a reliable closer is not on the Red Sox roster at the moment.

 

We know your position. I'm not sure anybody is disagreeing. I certainly am not.

 

I don't hear anyone saying he is a "lock down closer."

[Old Red]

We know your position. I'm not sure anybody is disagreeing. I certainly am not.

 

I don't hear anyone saying he is a "lock down closer."

 

Where did it say I said anyone said Houck was a lock down closer? I ve been saying the Red Sox needs one since last off season, and there is none on the Red Sox roster at the moment.

[mvp 78]

You suggested trading everyone last of season…

 

I suggested trading everyone that had an expiring contract PLUS Verdugo.

[mvp 78]

Covering all the bases, but you can't trust any poster who started in 2008.

 

What would YOU know about TalkSox history, pal?

[Old Red]

I suggested trading everyone that had an expiring contract PLUS Verdugo.

 

And a good suggestion it was.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think Houck can be a reliable anything, and I’ve been saying that for 2 years now. He has good flashes, but not enough to be reliable. I keep saying a reliable closer is not on the Red Sox roster at the moment.

 

IMO, they should just sign Montero and make him the defacto closer for the duration of whatever contract they give him.

[mvp 78]

And a good suggestion it was.

 

There was no reason to do that though. They were going to be competitive! That's what I was told! Now they probably think I'm just buzzarding again. Silly old me...

[moonslav59]

Where did it say I said anyone said Houck was a lock down closer? I ve been saying the Red Sox needs one since last off season, and there is none on the Red Sox roster at the moment.

 

Where did I say you did say that?

 

I'm saying nobody is disagreeing with your position that Houck is NOT a lockdown closer.

 

I just added that nobody thinks Houck is a lockdown closer.

 

Man, even when i agree with you, you go off.

 

[moonslav59]

IMO, they should just sign Montero and make him the defacto closer for the duration of whatever contract they give him.

 

I like that idea, and Houck or Whitlock could fill in, if he gets hurt or flails.

[Old Red]

There was no reason to do that though. They were going to be competitive! That's what I was told! Now they probably think I'm just buzzarding again. Silly old me...

 

At the time no, but as it turned out yes. I was against any fire sale, and I was against resigning John Goodman, and both turned out to be wrong.

[mvp 78]

moon, how do you explain this post then?

 

Houck is a lockdown closer.

[mvp 78]

I like that idea, and Houck or Whitlock could fill in, if he gets hurt or flails.

 

Whitlock to the rotation. Houck is the relief ace.

[Old Red]

Where did I say you did say that?

 

I'm saying nobody is disagreeing with your position that Houck is NOT a lockdown closer.

 

I just added that nobody thinks Houck is a lockdown closer.

 

Man, even when i agree with you, you go off.

 

Sorry, but it’s always suspicious when you agree with me.