2022 Bullpen Thread

[Old Red]

So you haven't even Googled it. That figgahs!

 

Why would I goggle it? In my 60+ years of watching MLB I have NEVER heard the term used, or read it anywhere either in many of the sports publications I’ve read. Use all you want no problem, but I’ll stick to other terms.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don't disagree, but in the final analysis it's our injury-riddled starting rotation that has really sunk us this year.

 

Agree, but a below-average rotation of fill-ins is then directly related to the overwork, and subsequent ineffectiveness, of the bullpen.

 

So one way to look at the offseason is that Bloom may invest heavily on more durable starters or a better, deeper cast of relievers. An either/or could be preferable to acquiring, say, one new starter and one new reliever...

[Bellhorn04]

Spending a pile on name relievers doesn't guarantee a thing. The Rockies tried it a few years ago and it bombed spectacularly.

 

The Yankees tried it with Chapman and Britton. How are Chapman and Britton doing this year, anybody notice?

[Old Red]

The plan was let's see who claims the roles by pitching the best, I would say...

 

It showed.

[Bellhorn04]

Why would I goggle it? In my 60+ years of watching MLB I have NEVER heard the term used, or read it anywhere either in many of the sports publications I’ve read. Use all you want no problem, but I’ll stick to other terms.

 

So you actually have to hear it with your ears, reading it is no good?

[Bellhorn04]

Agree, but a below-average rotation of fill-ins is then directly related to the overwork, and subsequent ineffectiveness, of the bullpen.

 

So one way to look at the offseason is that Bloom may invest heavily on more durable starters or a better, deeper cast of relievers. An either/or could be preferable to acquiring, say, one new starter and one new reliever...

 

I have never had a problem with spending money on one really good reliever, like Foulke or Papelbon or Koji or Kimbrel.

[Old Red]

They almost made it to the World Series last year with a similarly cut-rate bullpen.

 

They started out with a good closer last year, but then Barnes went into the crapper, so last year there was a plan. This year not so much.

[dgalehouse]

You can call them closers, relief aces , leverage guys , long men , set-up men or whatever you please. But you have got to have relievers who can shut down an offense , at least for one inning. That is imperative in today's game , and the Sox don't have it. Our bullpen is one of the worst. If the plan for next year is to pretty much bring back the same crew , don't expect things to improve.

[Old Red]

Spending a pile on name relievers doesn't guarantee a thing. The Rockies tried it a few years ago and it bombed spectacularly.

 

The Yankees tried it with Chapman and Britton. How are Chapman and Britton doing this year, anybody notice?

 

At least the Rockies have a pretty good closer this year. I know you’ve heard of him.

[Bellhorn04]

At least the Rockies have a pretty good closer this year. I know you’ve heard of him.

 

Danny Boy. Yes, and he's a great story. A little sorry we didn't nab him ourselves.

[Old Red]

You can call them closers, relief aces , leverage guys , long men , set-up men or whatever you please. But you have got to have relievers who can shut down an offense , at least for one inning. That is imperative in today's game , and the Sox don't have it. Our bullpen is one of the worst. If the plan for next year is to pretty much bring back the same crew , don't expect things to improve.

 

Exactly, and a 100 times over.

[Old Red]

Danny Boy. Yes, and he's a great story. A little sorry we didn't nab him ourselves.

 

What a waste of an arm for a long time.

[dgalehouse]

Spending a pile on name relievers doesn't guarantee a thing. The Rockies tried it a few years ago and it bombed spectacularly.

 

The Yankees tried it with Chapman and Britton. How are Chapman and Britton doing this year, anybody notice?

 

The role is changing. Kimbrel, Jansen and Chapman have been the top closers in the game since Mariano hung them up. Now, they are all nearing the end of the road. But there is a whole new crop of flame throwers emerging . Diaz is probably the best , but we are now seeing set-up men who hit trip!e digits as well. The Sox are missing the boat.

[Old Red]

The role is changing. Kimbrel, Jansen and Chapman have been the top closers in the game since Mariano hung them up. Now, they are all nearing the end of the road. But there is a whole new crop of flame throwers emerging . Diaz is probably the best , but we are now seeing set-up men who hit trip!e digits as well. The Sox are missing the boat.

 

Just playing Minnesota recently was proof of that.

[Bellhorn04]

The role is changing. Kimbrel, Jansen and Chapman have been the top closers in the game since Mariano hung them up. Now, they are all nearing the end of the road. But there is a whole new crop of flame throwers emerging . Diaz is probably the best , but we are now seeing set-up men who hit trip!e digits as well. The Sox are missing the boat.

 

Bullpens are basically a new boat every year. Bloom has to do better, that is for sure.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I guess the BIG question is does Whitlock make the SOX better by remaining a reliever or becoming a starter next season?

[dgalehouse]

Bullpens are basically a new boat every year. Bloom has to do better, that is for sure.

 

One thing I disagree with is the idea that relief pitchers are a hit or miss proposition. That has been said so much that folks are starting to believe it. They are no more hit or miss than the starters , right fielders , third basemen ,etc. The good one are pretty reliable. The mediocre ones can be erratic. But everyone misses sometimes.

[moonslav59]

Present day baseball is quite simple. If a team doesn't have a decent BP, that team doesn't have a chance.

 

Like the Nats in 2019?

 

Not modern enough?

 

The 2018 Sox pen ended up being a complete joke.

[Old Red]

I guess the BIG question is does Whitlock make the SOX better by remaining a reliever or becoming a starter next season?

 

I think it’s pretty clear to me that the BP is the biggest need just like it was this year.

[redsoxrules]

I guess the BIG question is does Whitlock make the SOX better by remaining a reliever or becoming a starter next season?

 

If they keep flopping him back forth he will probably suck at both and get injured again

[moonslav59]

One thing I disagree with is the idea that relief pitchers are a hit or miss proposition. That has been said so much that folks are starting to believe it. They are no more hit or miss than the starters , right fielders , third basemen ,etc. The good one are pretty reliable. The mediocre ones can be erratic. But everyone misses sometimes.

 

I think the vast majority of everyday players are more predictable than the vast majority of RP'ers, even though the RP role has advanced from days past.

[moonslav59]

If they keep flopping him back forth he will probably suck at both and get injured again

 

I think they will pick one for 2023 and stick to it.

 

My guess is he will start, but with Houck's surgery, maybe it's closer to 50-50, now.

 

If we offer a QO to Wacha and make Whitlock a SP'er, maybe we can get by without trading Casas for a starter- or spending way too much for a questionable starter like deGrom or Kershaw.

 

Spend on 3 solid tier 2 RP'ers and concentrate on filling all the everyday player holes open for 2023..

Edited September 4, 2022 by moonslav59

[dgalehouse]

I think the vast majority of everyday players are more predictable than the vast majority of RP'ers, even though the RP role has advanced from days past.

 

Not true.

[Old Red]

Like the Nats in 2019?

 

Not modern enough?

 

The 2018 Sox pen ended up being a complete joke.

But you have to have some kind of a plan to begin with. 2018 ended up bad, but there was a plan to start the season. 2021 there was a plan to start with, but Barnes s*** the bed. This year Bloom had no plan.

[Old Red]

I think they will pick one for 2023 and stick to it.

 

My guess is he will start, but with Houck's surgery, maybe it's closer to 50-50, now.

 

My guess he will relieve, and I don’t think it will have anything to do with Houck. Time will tell.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

One major way to improve a BP is for starters to go more than 5 innings more often. This was a numerous fault of the SOX this season. And, yes, injuries had a lot to do with that.

[notin]

One thing I disagree with is the idea that relief pitchers are a hit or miss proposition. That has been said so much that folks are starting to believe it. They are no more hit or miss than the starters , right fielders , third basemen ,etc. The good one are pretty reliable. The mediocre ones can be erratic. But everyone misses sometimes.

 

 

Absolutely true. Relievers are not all hit or miss pitchers. But all hit or miss pitchers are relievers. Just avoid that second set.

 

I think that myth I’d like to dispel can be rooted in their smaller sample sizes being thrown for a loop with one or two bad outings…

[notin]

One major way to improve a BP is for starters to go more than 5 innings more often. This was a numerous fault of the SOX this season. And, yes, injuries had a lot to do with that.

 

Also short ST.

 

I’m pretty sure the reduced IP/start was league wide and teams even were allowed expanded rosters for 2 months to accommodate it.

 

But the thing is, expanding the bullpen by 2 pitchers means you use 2 pitchers who normally wouldn’t be on your roster…

[Bellhorn04]

One thing I disagree with is the idea that relief pitchers are a hit or miss proposition. That has been said so much that folks are starting to believe it. They are no more hit or miss than the starters , right fielders , third basemen ,etc. The good one are pretty reliable. The mediocre ones can be erratic. But everyone misses sometimes.

 

On the other hand, how many long-term (5 years or more) reliable late inning relievers have the Red Sox had in their history?

 

I can only think of two, really - Radatz and Papelbon.

 

Koji was awesome in 2013, but returned to earth after that.

 

Kimbrel gave us 3 very good years, but he wasn't very good for us in his postseason efforts.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

But you have to have some kind of a plan to begin with. 2018 ended up bad, but there was a plan to start the season. 2021 there was a plan to start with, but Barnes s*** the bed. This year Bloom had no plan.

 

The 2022 plan looked ab out the same as 2021, to me. The 2021 pen overachieved and this one underachieved.

 

If we didn't have to use Whitlock and Houck as SP'ers, I think the 2022 pen would have been pretty close to 2021. Plus, Barnes gave us nothing, this year. Although I did not expect early 2021 from Barnes, I didn't expect 3 months on the IL and mediocrity when pitching. I also did not expect Taylor to miss the whole year.

 

I was never high on Diekman, but even he fell way below expectations.

 

Just my take.